Itzulia Basque Country 2024, April 1-6

[noob]

I don't want to brag, but I know more about racing / race analysis / data management and have race pedigree myself, compared to guys like Benji. At best I read / listen to them but the only thing I 'learn' are that their analysis sometimes reaches the same conclusions as I already made, and the details that people rave about in Patrick's race videos are things I have all seen / noticed live.

Nevertheless, Patrick's race videos are really good / to the point / ... and I am always happy to watch those, especially when I haven't seen the race myself.

Patrick himself has said one of the reasons he's hired by teams is that he watches every race. (Few does since they don't have time for that.)

 

[Landeirovic]

Is Roglic definitely out of the race? I know that he DNF today but if the race was neutralised does he need to finish to start tomorrow? And if he is not seriously injured could he start tomorrow?

DNF=DNF

 

[Gargamel35]

Tony Martin aka Panzerwagen from the retirement about Roglič:

"In fact, Roglic's training is the thing Martin believes sets him apart from all others. "I have never seen another athlete or teammate train so hard and with such determination. When he does his intervals on the mountain during the altitude training camp, it's unbelievable," Martin recalls, although as he notes that's not without sacrifice. "He pushes himself to the limit and is extremely hard on himself - and also on his family. Because he invests a lot of time in training camps between races and is only at home a little. This is not always easy in private life."

In contrast to his competition and training mentality, he is relaxed in private or at the dinner table after the race, drinks a beer in the evening and is very grateful and appreciative of his teammates for their efforts," Martin concludes. "At the end of the season there were also gifts for the helpers provided throughout the year. In that respect, he is really a great captain and I was happy to sacrifice myself for him."

Source: https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...es-the-immense-determination-of-primoz-roglic

He's a human among aliens.

Is Roglic definitely out of the race? I know that he DNF today but if the race was neutralised does he need to finish to start tomorrow? And if he is not seriously injured could he start tomorrow?

I hope he's out. It was enough. He's goal is TdF and he needs to get there in one piece.

 

[noob]

2 tablespoons of Nescafe Gold and Alaphilippe isn't hectic anymore?

OMG the comments today is killing a noob I love tha weasle

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I've just found out about this. This sounds absurd to me. Was the crash really that bad?

No, not really, compared to the race continuing on, say, stage 3 of the 2011 Giro.

But the fact of the matter was, the bunch was not up for racing, the organisers arranged for them to restart once everything was safe again, but had they done that the riders would just have done a go-slow and a self-policed neutralisation, so the organisers - as they always do - just said, sod it, let's give the riders what they want because it's better they skip a few kilometres of racing today and don't withdraw en masse. What they'd gain from restarting the race was not worth the hassle it would have caused in the long run.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Holy moses. This is even worse than I thought.
Glancing this thread was on update for previous days and crashes (after 48 hours of house project preparations, heavy work load, night shift calls and near zero sleep) - and just in this moment I'm on par with latest news of today.
Horrible
Just hope my previous reasoning regarding my bike race watcing vs. crashes will be put to shame. At present seems pretty impossible for me to have opportunities to watch more cycling. Now even Sunday looks difficult to me.

What a terrible day for cycling

 

[noob]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775934756405887401

View: https://twitter.com/BenjiNaesen/status/1775934756405887401


I know you all hate Benji but this was interesting :O

 

[Danskebjerge]

Contador took stages in Algarve finishing 2nd over all, won T-A including stages and so forth, What are you talking about?

You do know what a one-day-race is? It’s the kind of race that Pogacar has won loads of. Van Aert, Evenepoel and van der Poel, too.

 

[noob]

It is, but at the same time, anybody in the péloton listen to the guys with local knowledge, like Mikel Bizkarra and Pello Bilbao?

I already loved on Bilbao in this thread for what he said. I don't know about Benji

It's just it was interesting if Jonas had warned about that curve beforehand yet he went that fast into it :O

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

I've just found out about this. This sounds absurd to me. Was the crash really that bad?

Yes, it was lucky that no one was hurt more seriously. Vingegaard was literally lying on side not moving for 10+ minutes and Jay Vine was lying in a ditch for a long time as well and Remco nearly struck a tree with his head.

I still don't know how they all missed the large rock on the side of the road.

 

[noob]

Not to be a noob but top GC riders being younger and younger won't help with risk aversion!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I already loved on Bilbao in this thread for what he said. I don't know about Benji

It's just it was interesting if Jonas had warned about that curve beforehand yet he went that fast into it :O

If Jonas was warned directly and ignored the warnings then he has to take some culpability. If Jonas was warned indirectly and the message was not passed on to him by the team or whoever then that's irresponsible. And if Jonas wasn't warned and somebody is lying to try to gain clout off of their pronouncements after the fact then that's ghoulish.

I think the people involved, or rather the team involved in the highest profile injury victims of a couple of the crashes recently helps explain why Benji's opinions are strong on the subject.

 

[Izzyeviel]

just seen the crash, was that supposed to be a crash barrier that they all missed?

 

[Tim Cahill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775990703035715774

 

[Scarponi]

Would the attention be as great if it were three Caja Rural riders and not the TDF favourites?

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I turned in this morning, about 10 minutes after it happened, and the images I first saw were of a non-moving Vingegaard and a non-moving Vine. I was really concerned that they might be in a life-threatening situation. It sucked.

 

[Taxus4a]

I will be Tomorrow at Vitoria, but if I want to see the stars as I planned maybe I should go to the hospital.
Sad day for cycling. They get that corner really fast. I would like to Talk with Landa Tomorrow becouse he was comanding the descent, but tomorrow at his land I think there is no way. I hope in the future anyway.
A crash with consecuences for all the season.

Cyclist are going too fast today, mainly for that ultraero equipment and bikes, and they go almost naked... I dont know the solución but cycling need a reflexión.

 

[zlev11]

Would the attention be as great if it were three Caja Rural riders and not the TDF favourites?

absolutely not. i argued this earlier in the thread and was harassed for it. kirby would've been doing casual racism 3 minutes later.

 

[Extinction]

What exactly were they supposed to warn them?

"Just so you guys know, there's a corner up ahead which might be a bit bumpy. It's a nondescript right-hander with no adverse features on a road which is plenty wide enough, but if you are going way too fast for the descent then there's not much run-off and it's potentially pretty grim if you miss the corner. We've put a yellow caution sign up before it."

The riders were going too fast for the descent, and because the race had been less selective (because of a combination of a less selective parcours and the péloton going slow on the climb) there was a bigger péloton than might ordinarily be expected on a descent of that nature".

Could the organisers have done more about the culvert and the boulders? Definitely. Was the fact the crash occurred the organisers' fault? Absolutely not. Whenever any of these issues come up, the assumption is always that the organisers are to blame, but riders have to actually shoulder some responsibility for the risks that they take sometimes. This was just a racing incident, but because of a few other high profile incidents in recent history, emotions are running high and tempers flaring.

Did not a rider from the break almost vear off the course at that very curve (Oldmanish, I think, at any rate, seemed to imply this)? So, it should have been evident to the race officialls that that bend was more hazzardous than it seemed and sounded a warning. Indeed, with that culvert and those boulders, someone should have been stationed there with red flag motioning to slow down. That's being professional. As it was, the organization showed an egregious dilettantism unworthy of its leadership responsibilities.

 

[johnymax]

Patrick himself has said one of the reasons he's hired by teams is that he watches every race. (Few does since they don't have time for that.)

I was convinced every member of this forum watches every race.

 

[Extinction]

No, not really, compared to the race continuing on, say, stage 3 of the 2011 Giro.

But the fact of the matter was, the bunch was not up for racing, the organisers arranged for them to restart once everything was safe again, but had they done that the riders would just have done a go-slow and a self-policed neutralisation, so the organisers - as they always do - just said, sod it, let's give the riders what they want because it's better they skip a few kilometres of racing today and don't withdraw en masse. What they'd gain from restarting the race was not worth the hassle it would have caused in the long run.

But absurdly they allowed the break to race for an untimed stage win. What bafoons. Why did they not just call the whole show off? Nobody cared anymore about a stage winner.

 

[saunaking]

Now I'm going to have to find some videos that I never would have watched otherwise.

Manic has a fetish for calf muscles???

 

[jmdirt]

On a more human level: two JV riders came back quickly to check on Jonas and do what they could. One of them (I think it was Kuss) then moved to helping an EF rider, still in the trench and then moved to help several other riders including a check-in on Roglic who appeared "OK" in the trench. I think they care how this occurred.

These guys all live the same battle, that was a nice gesture for sure.

On another note, that really doesn't mean anything to the much larger situation here, on the CN cover page they list JV with a collarbone break, but RE with a clavicle break. Same bone.

 

[jmdirt]

Here's one thing that would've helped: One of the the riders in the break executed a bailout into the trees, on camera. He rejoined the break that had a lead of 2:20 at that time. Why in the Holiest of fu*cks wasn't there a response to the field and cars to alert the main field!!!! There's motos with cameras in front of the field and some sort of slowdown could've been transmitted. Oh wait; all of the riders have earpieces for....safety. This was avoidable and I'm sure the DS of the rider that regained the break knew what happened.

On a more human level: two JV riders came back quickly to check on Jonas and do what they could. One of them (I think it was Kuss) then moved to helping an EF rider, still in the trench and then moved to help several other riders including a check-in on Roglic who appeared "OK" in the trench. I think they care how this occurred.

Not Kuss:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuk8uQjlRbo

 

[fbjim]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775934756405887401

View: https://twitter.com/BenjiNaesen/status/1775934756405887401


I know you all hate Benji but this was interesting :O

To answer a few replies to this, nothing in the blurb implies that Vingegaard or whoever these guys are, were warned about this specific corner. Instead we have Vingegaard mentiong descents at the Basque tour, which, it doesn't take a genius to know that the Basque tour has some twisty descent. I've frequently heard rider complaints about descents in the Basque Country.

I frankly find this kind of implication appalling on Benji's part, that, if only they had listened to this org that nobody had heard of until now, this wouldn't have happened.