Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Sciatic]

I thought the word "rat" used by Luke Rowe was interesting. In the US that term is often given to someone that "snitches" or that breaks the code of omerta. I don't know if the use here is related or not.

In the context it sounds like he’s using even more pejoratively — like for a sneaky, gutter-dwelling vermin. And I hate to hear these white Anglo guys using terms like that about someone from a different country and culture.

 

[AnotherArmChair]

That era Tramadol wasn't against the rules, for Quintana it was so that's not being hypocritical to denounce him. Not that i'm aware of evidence or even here say Thomas or Poels ever took it, the point is the peloton are not great admirers of Quintana, and his Tramadol use, his Dr wrapped up in things, hotel raids etc kinds of proved their point.

Tramadol was not against the rules per se when SKY took it but it was not in keeping with MPCC if I recall correctly...So MPCC teams didnt take but that didn't stop SKY

I remember having a conversation with a pro whose team at the time was in MPCC and he was so frustrated with SKY on tramadol for TTs and later with Jumbo on ketones though he didn't want to take either he felt it was an fair advantage for teams who did

 

[Gratemans]

I've got the distinct feeling this has nothing to do with tramadol. They all used it themselves. They wouldn't get this pissed off if someone else used it (they wouldn't get angry at all even imo)
I think something entirely different happened.
I don't have the slightest idea what, but I'm convinced this amount of collective anger towards another rider isn't about tramadol at all.

 

[samhocking]

Tramadol was not against the rules per se when SKY took it but it was not in keeping with MPCC if I recall correctly...So MPCC teams didnt take but that didn't stop SKY

I remember having a conversation with a pro whose team at the time was in MPCC and he was so frustrated with SKY on tramadol for TTs and later with Jumbo on ketones though he didn't want to take either he felt it was an fair advantage for teams who did

I'm not sure being an MPCC team makes any difference, pretty much all the major doping violations the last 5 years came from MPCC teams and/or MPCC registered riders for EPO, Blood, Hormones, Steroids & Passport failures. Quintana was on an MPCC team taking Tramadol so it's not really a label of credibility. It was an attempt to not have French cycling implode after Festina and I think that at least was done for the right reasons, Today MPCC seem very willing to ignore their own offences while pointing the finger at everyone else doing legal thinks like Ketones to me?

 

[samhocking]

I thought the word "rat" used by Luke Rowe was interesting. In the US that term is often given to someone that "snitches" or that breaks the code of omerta. I don't know if the use here is related or not.

The context is Quintana is just not liked much in the peloton as a person. It goes back a decade ago and as far as Rory Sutherland so there's lots of history not just his Dr being arrested and Quintana's Tramadol sanction and Poels the last couple of years or so.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

This discussion is, at least in parts, getting very clinic-y. Move it elsewhere if you want to continue it.

 

[Volderke]

I see a discussion about a rider and why he is liked or not liked. The use of certain products / bans is just the context, not the subject of discussion, and I don't even see many posters veering off.

I always liked Quintana as the underdog / the people's favourite and someone with a pretty decent speech. I wonder though, in his Movistar years, he always seems to be overshadowed by Valverde in the pecking order / internal ranking, and he doesn't seem to ride for anything else than his own glory. This is all likely to result in his own team / team mates feeling lukewarm about supporting him, but they probably felt they couldn't ignore him while he was the only one in Movistar capable of podium-ing or even winning a GT.

I don't understand how and why Ineos riders would feel strongly about Quintana, though: he isn't the force he once was so whether he competes (after his crash in Catalunya) or not in the Giro, doesn't seem to be relevant.

 

[Squire]

I don't understand how and why Ineos riders would feel strongly about Quintana, though: he isn't the force he once was so whether he competes (after his crash in Catalunya) or not in the Giro, doesn't seem to be relevant.

Easy way of showing some moral superiority.

I really hope Quintana lights up some mountain stages in the Giro (with the field being what it is, God knows it's needed). But I fear he's more or less finished. A 34-year-old who was already declining since turning 30 coming back after a year out isn't really a recipe for great success.

 

[staubsauger]

If Quintana had any kind of shape I would totally expect him to win a mountain stage and maybe fight for the blue jersey with Bouwman & Storer.

Now it's gonna be worse than it was at the 2021 Tour de France I fear.

 

[Unchained]

This discussion is, at least in parts, getting very clinic-y. Move it elsewhere if you want to continue it.

What a mess Nario is in, said that substances were a non factor, but now it's all anyone takes about and he is getting no results.. So either people will talk about him in the clinic or not at all.. Sad

 

[Cookster15]

I always liked Quintana as the underdog / the people's favourite and someone with a pretty decent speech. I wonder though, in his Movistar years, he always seems to be overshadowed by Valverde in the pecking order / internal ranking, and he doesn't seem to ride for anything else than his own glory. This is all likely to result in his own team / team mates feeling lukewarm about supporting him, but they probably felt they couldn't ignore him while he was the only one in Movistar capable of podium-ing or even winning a GT.

I don't understand how and why Ineos riders would feel strongly about Quintana, though: he isn't the force he once was so whether he competes (after his crash in Catalunya) or not in the Giro, doesn't seem to be relevant.

For sure Quintana is past his best so I think he's trying to make the best of the rest of his career. Nothing wrong with that.

However, IMO, Quintana was insulted having to ride below Valverde during his previous time at Movistar - at least in grand tours. Nairo was one of the few riders who could push Froome at his peak. Examples 2013 and 2015 TdF. AV was never capable of that level. Valverde should have been 2nd fiddle to Quintana in the Movistar pecking order in grand tours.

At Movistar I always had the impression it was a Spanish thing. I was very surprised Quintana went back to that team after how he was treated there. He seemed to get on well with Valverde so it seemed like Unzué was the problem. Quintana's performances were simply a case of cause and effect. Treat a rider badly and they lose motivation. I think he made a career mistake around 2016 deciding to stay with Movistar rather than leave.

I suppose by last year he gave up his aspirations and a return to Movistar was the best option he had.

But it seems he won't be even a remote threat at the Giro. Even wining a stage seems a big stretch. That just reinforces the weak field that Pogacar is up against.

 

[Oldermanish]

I thought the word "rat" used by Luke Rowe was interesting. In the US that term is often given to someone that "snitches" or that breaks the code of omerta. I don't know if the use here is related or not.

Hard to know the cultural inferences that come with that moniker. We have some very visible folks in the US that use that and "vermin" as a direct reference to immigrants. While this wouldn't be the same situation the low regard inferred by Rowe can cover alot of things other than omerta. I doubt Nairo "outed" anyone.
Rowe's team and Froome in particular got soundly embarrassed in that Vuelta and Quintana was one of the beneficiaries. That...and 75% of the peloton that weren't over confident and asleep. Maybe Rowe doesn't like the opportunistic wins by "rats". F*ck him.

 

[Red Rick]

For sure Quintana is past his best so I think he's trying to make the best of the rest of his career. Nothing wrong with that.

However, IMO, Quintana was insulted having to ride below Valverde during his previous time at Movistar - at least in grand tours. Nairo was one of the few riders who could push Froome at his peak. Examples 2013 and 2015 TdF. AV was never capable of that level. Valverde should have been 2nd fiddle to Quintana in the Movistar pecking order in grand tours.

At Movistar I always had the impression it was a Spanish thing. I was very surprised Quintana went back to that team after how he was treated there. He seemed to get on well with Valverde so it seemed like Unzué was the problem. Quintana's performances were simply a case of cause and effect. Treat a rider badly and they lose motivation. I think he made a career mistake around 2016 deciding to stay with Movistar rather than leave.

I suppose by last year he gave up his aspirations and a return to Movistar was the best option he had.

But it seems he won't be even a remote threat at the Giro. Even wining a stage seems a big stretch. That just reinforces the weak field that Pogacar is up against.

I wanna know what happened in 2015 when Nibali attacked on the Croix de Fer with like 10 guys left in the peloton and Quintana sat prettily waiting to attack on the 6% grinder that is La Toussuire.

Not having permission is the only thing that makes sense.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I wanna know what happened in 2015 when Nibali attacked on the Croix de Fer with like 10 guys left in the peloton and Quintana sat prettily waiting to attack on the 6% grinder that is La Toussuire.

Not having permission is the only thing that makes sense.

Quintana is simply a great sportsman and would never attack while the yellow jersey has a mechanical.

 

[Sciatic]

Hard to know the cultural inferences that come with that moniker. We have some very visible folks in the US that use that and "vermin" as a direct reference to immigrants. While this wouldn't be the same situation the low regard inferred by Rowe can cover alot of things other than omerta. I doubt Nairo "outed" anyone.
Rowe's team and Froome in particular got soundly embarrassed in that Vuelta and Quintana was one of the beneficiaries. That...and 75% of the peloton that weren't over confident and asleep. Maybe Rowe doesn't like the opportunistic wins by "rats". F*ck him.

Yup, even though it’s not considered a “cuss word” it’s pretty nasty way to speak about another rider—certainly worse than calling someone an a-ss.

 

[topcat]

I wanna know what happened in 2015 when Nibali attacked on the Croix de Fer with like 10 guys left in the peloton and Quintana sat prettily waiting to attack on the 6% grinder that is La Toussuire.

Not having permission is the only thing that makes sense.

Yes, he didn't have permission. Nibali didn't either but he always had grinta balls.

 

[Gigs_98]

Tough loss but the focus should be on the future. There is (almost) a stelvio descent to attack on Monday.

 

[Forever The Best]

Tough loss but the focus should be on the future. There is (almost) a stelvio descent to attack on Monday.

And Grappa on stage 20.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Congratulations Nairo, you came back to our hearts!

 

[movingtarget]

Had to admire Quintana's ride yesterday even though I was hoping that Steinhauser was going to hang on.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

For sure Quintana is past his best so I think he's trying to make the best of the rest of his career. Nothing wrong with that.

However, IMO, Quintana was insulted having to ride below Valverde during his previous time at Movistar - at least in grand tours. Nairo was one of the few riders who could push Froome at his peak. Examples 2013 and 2015 TdF. AV was never capable of that level. Valverde should have been 2nd fiddle to Quintana in the Movistar pecking order in grand tours.

At Movistar I always had the impression it was a Spanish thing. I was very surprised Quintana went back to that team after how he was treated there. He seemed to get on well with Valverde so it seemed like Unzué was the problem. Quintana's performances were simply a case of cause and effect. Treat a rider badly and they lose motivation. I think he made a career mistake around 2016 deciding to stay with Movistar rather than leave.

I suppose by last year he gave up his aspirations and a return to Movistar was the best option he had.

But it seems he won't be even a remote threat at the Giro. Even wining a stage seems a big stretch. That just reinforces the weak field that Pogacar is up against.

Actually Nairo WAS number 1 at Movistar in the Tour. Regularly.

2013 as a bit of an unknown, he probably started as number 2, made to ride more offensively, anticipating the big attacks, got second. Maybe not attacking on the Pailhères would have saved him some time (on the other hand the anticipation on Ventoux probably helped him) Even as clear number 1 the result wouldn't have been better.

Next year sent to the Giro, ok, you could say that was a mistake, but since in the end he won (stole it from Uran, grrr) it, hard to criticize the decision somehow.

2015 he was the clear leader, he later blamed Valverde (or an unnamed rider that is Valverde) for not winning it. Valverde just not strong enough on the Croix de Fer, Porte too strong, maybe Quintana went a bit too early, that's all.

Quintana was the nr 1 GC rider at Movistar, not Valverde. The constant claim, without any actual examples, that he somehow had to suffer because of Valverde having a higher standing in the team (which he certainly had, but that didn't make him GC leader when Quintana was there) is just BS. Often repeated BS, but that doesn't make it true. Quintana had all the support he could get at Movistar, in the end he was the one who started to fade early suddenly.

 

[Bolder]

Had to admire Quintana's ride yesterday even though I was hoping that Steinhauser was going to hang on.

It was extremely clever. He never put his nose into the wind until he attacked. Against anyone other than an alien he gets the win, easily.

If he wants to extend his career at Movi for 2-3 more years he should continue the same pattern, though he'll have to be a domestique for Mas at the Tour/Vuelta in between stagehunting.

His pedaling looks much more fluid this year than when he was at Arkea and at the end of his previous movi stint. I guess that means his knees are finally healed. Too bad he lost 3-4 years with the injuries plus the tram thingy...