Beijing Winter Olympics 2022

[Aimar16]

A burning question - are triple Axels considered more difficult than quads?

I'm no figure skating expert, but as far as I know the quadruple jumps are the hardest and highest scoring elements. Of the quad jumps, Axel has the highest base value 12.5 and Toe Loop has the lowest base value 9.5

The base value of Triple Axel is 8. Lutz has the second highest (5.90) base value of the triple jumps. So the difficulty level of the Triple Axel is closer to the quad jumps than to the other triple jumps.

 

[Sciatic]

Honestly overall that's Germany's (only real) strength: sports that need expensive equipment and that aren't done by too many other countries.
Because the general (financial) support of other sports than football isn't really there.

But you could say the same about almost all the Winter Olympics sports except ice hockey. Skaters may not have the expensive equipment of skiers, but finding the necessary ice to train on and the coaching to get to elite level are expensive, and just limited to a few places where the sport is popular.

 

[BlueRoads]

But you could say the same about almost all the Winter Olympics sports except ice hockey. Skaters may not have the expensive equipment of skiers, but finding the necessary ice to train on and the coaching to get to elite level are expensive, and just limited to a few places where the sport is popular.

That's why we are second in the medal table of the winter Olympics where we would never be in the summer...
Actually ice time is probably the biggest hurdle here as well, the hockey players I think always have the first right.

It was again a bit tongue in cheek about the expensive sports, but there is some truth to it, I think. Also ski-jumping is rather popular (which does not only require the equipment but also a jump), then there's horseback riding of course...

 

[Sciatic]

I'm no figure skating expert, but as far as I know the quadruple jumps are the hardest and highest scoring elements. Of the quad jumps, Axel has the highest base value 12.5 and Toe Loop has the lowest base value 9.5

The base value of Triple Axel is 8. Lutz has the second highest (5.90) base value of the triple jumps. So the difficulty level of the Triple Axel is closer to the quad jumps than to the other triple jumps.

For women, a triple axel can be a tougher jump to complete than some of quad toe-pick jumps. It takes more power and speed since they are jumping forward without the pick action. In fact I wish that jump could get more points for height and distance covered than simply rotations. And if you’re watching live (the 2010 Olympics for me), the powerful axels are breathtaking to see in full flight. For all the Tonya Harding stupidity and drama, most folks forget—or never knew—she had the best triple axel of the women at that time, something other female skaters weren’t even trying to include in their programs.

 

[BlueRoads]

Caught some of the women's figure skating yesterday - controversy aside there's no denying Valieva is a beautiful skater to watch, it sucks my first time ever seeing her perform has to be covered in so much muck. Unless she really screws up a medal for her is guaranteed tomorrow which means no podium ceremony... maybe the medal winners could at least get some chocolate medals for now? That way they could eat them and could at least get something out of this whole mess.

A burning question - are triple Axels considered more difficult than quads? I'm asking because the commentators (love Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir as commentators, btw., they know their stuff), said in the short program quads are not allowed, the highest they can go is a triple Axel and not all gals even attempted it. So, what is the deal with triple Axels?

Valieva is a beautiful skater, her spins are amazing. She doesn't have a great jumping technique, though, like most of the Tutberidze girls she prerotates heavily on the ice and her take off is a bit weird (my new knowledge , I never noticed that before with the girls, but ever since I read about it I can't unsee it).

Yeah, Sciatic is right, they are especially more difficult for girls, for the reason they gave, and also I think because it requires a better technique than the one the girls use for the quad jumps: they prerotate on the ice, than use the rotation and lift their (very light) body up with the help of their upper body and arms instead of really jumping from their legs. That's why they always have the arms over the head by the way, not because they are so good that they can afford it... (also my new knowledge). This doesn't work so well for the Axel with it's forward take-off and different entrance. (Of course Valieva jumps a 3A nonetheless.)

I think for many skaters though the Axel is also more difficult because it's just so different from the other jumps, and they are just more used to the backward take-off? That's my guess. Because obviously many (male) skaters continue to struggle with the 3A, it's never a safe jump, even if they can do a 4T for instance in their sleep.

Edit: Ah, and for some reason Trusova is unable to do a clean 3A in competition, although she often lands it in practice. They say it is a mental blockage.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

For all the Tonya Harding stupidity and drama, most folks forget—or never knew—she had the best triple axel of the women at that time, something other female skaters weren’t even trying to include in their programs.

That's the problem when you become known for something so notorious that it dwarfs the sport. Even before the film, her name was known to people the world over, but with no real knowledge of her actual skating ability. Just as when people say the name 'OJ Simpson' most people don't think of his exploits as one of the greatest running backs of all time.

 

[Koronin]

Remember the men aren't doing a quad axel yet. I know the one Japanese skater is very close to landing one, but hasn't gotten it yet.

 

[BigCoward]

Shiffrin crashed out again? Wtf?

 

[BigCoward]

Norway wining the NC probably ends Germany having a chance to top the medal table.

 

[Keram]

Shiffrin crashed out again? Wtf?

It is like she forgot skiing. She is good in DH and SG though. Her technical disciplines were unreal in Beijing. I wonder if she will get her skiing back in world cup.

 

[BlueRoads]

Okay, maybe you watched it... what a tragedy, all around.

I can't even be happy for my favourite to win the bronze.

 

[KZD]

Norway wining the NC probably ends Germany having a chance to top the medal table.

Yes, Norway already has the same number of gold medals as in Pyeongchang although significantly less medals but with the covid cases they had it would be almost impossible to reach that.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Okay, maybe you watched it... what a tragedy, all around.

I can't even be happy for my favourite to win the bronze.

You're talking about figure skating, right?

Trusova is destroyed, she did her best competition ever, amazing Free program, with 5 quads, and yet she only wins silver. I heard her shouting "I hate everyone, I hate this sport. I will never go out on ice again in my life. Never! I hate her! I hate everyone! This is not possible, everyone has a gold medal, everyone, except me. I hate everyone!"

 

[Aimar16]

The media didn't get the gift of the cancelled ceremony and the asterisk winner. But their camera savoured every tear and watched the meltdown with glee.

 

[BigCoward]

Putting her through this was less harmful than sending her home?

 

[Norbea]

Norway wining the NC probably ends Germany having a chance to top the medal table.

Norway has a couple of good events left. Johaug is a clear favorite for the 30km. Biathlon mass starts with a good chance for more gold for Røiseland and JT Bø, although they will meet stiff competition and needs to perform well at the shooting range. It will be hard to beat Bolshunov in the 50km.

 

[PeterB]

You're talking about figure skating, right?

Trusova is destroyed, she did her best competition ever, amazing Free program, with 5 quads, and yet she only wins silver. I heard her shouting "I hate everyone, I hate this sport. I will never go out on ice again in my life. Never! I hate her! I hate everyone! This is not possible, everyone has a gold medal, everyone, except me. I hate everyone!"

Really? That's rough. But it's not like Shcherbakova did not deserve her marks, so I'm not sure why she should have been so upset. Is there anything in the background going on?

 

[Mayomaniac]

It is like she forgot skiing. She is good in DH and SG though. Her technical disciplines were unreal in Beijing. I wonder if she will get her skiing back in world cup.

Goggia borrowed her her skis for the downhill part of the combined, many to mess with Brignone. They dislike eachother and Brignone's mother (a former skier herself) recently said that Goggia's injury was blown out of proportion, nothing severe and pretty much an excuse.

 

[Sciatic]

Goggia borrowed her her skis for the downhill part of the combined, many to mess with Brignone. They dislike eachother and Brignone's mother (a former skier herself) recently said that Goggia's injury was blown out of proportion, nothing severe and pretty much an excuse.

Wow, some figure-skating level drama on the alpine slopes. I don’t understand how anyone could doubt Goggia’s injuries if they saw that crash in her WC race before the Ilympics—it was horrendous.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Really? That's rough. But it's not like Shcherbakova did not deserve her marks, so I'm not sure why she should have been so upset. Is there anything in the background going on?

I know Shcherbakova and Trusova really don't like each other at all, but I don't know much more than that. I'm not really fluent in Russian, but I'm 100% positive about the words I heard.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Wow, some figure-skating level drama on the alpine slopes. I don’t understand how anyone could doubt Goggia’s injuries if they saw that crash in her WC race before the Ilympics—it was horrendous.

There has been bad blood between those 2 for years. Brignone is also working with her own coach (her brother) and not with the Italian NT coaches.

 

[Norbea]

I'm not really fluent in Russian, but I'm 100% positive about the words I heard.

That is what she said. Also according to Norwegian media.

 

[PeterB]

That is what she said. Also according to Norwegian media.

Yeah, I have meanwhile found original video on Eurosport https://www.eurosport.com/figure-sk...-figure-skating-silver_sto8801366/story.shtml

It's tough if someone is always better than you and then even if you give everything you have it's still not enough. But nobody is entitled to victory, it must be earned so I hope she won't stop trying and maybe one day finds the golden formula.

 

[BlueRoads]

Really? That's rough. But it's not like Shcherbakova did not deserve her marks, so I'm not sure why she should have been so upset. Is there anything in the background going on?

I don't think there's bad blood between them otherwise - they are sharing a room in Beijing. And of course, while Shcherbakova is also overscored Trusova is the most overscored in PCS, so from that point of view she couldn't complain. I think it was all just too much. There must have been immense stress, imagine all the years of extremely hard work, they are practicing practically all day long, don't each much, are under constant stress and pressure to prove they are good enough to even get one of those three Russian spots at international championships. And who knows what else they had to put up with. The stories I have read in the past few days - well, I don't want to spread anymore rumours and I don't know what is true, but let's just say that Alena Kostornaia broke her second arm recently after just getting back on the ice. And it's not like it's normal for figure skaters to constantly break their bones.
Trusova strikes me as a generally nice kid, with emphasis on kid, because she seems very childlike for her age. And then all the stories and of course suspicions that they might be doped, too... that must all be very much.
Rationally she must have expected not to win gold in advance, Valieva was always the over favourite - now it was Shcherbakova instead, when maybe she had thought that at least they together were overtaken by Valieva, and she's the only one who doesn't get gold. (I don't think Valieva will keep her gold, but I think they told the girls it would stand, and they probably also put Trusova's hopes up at one point.) And I think in that moment, when she realized she had done her five quads, not perfectly, but all somehow landed, and Valieva failed, and it still wasn't enough...
I don't think there's much of a rational explanation or actual entitlement, just raw emotion from all the pressure and hopes and splattered dreams.

She should actually get some of the worst PCS in the women's field, but I feel for her. I don't think she thinks she'll get a second chance to go for Olympic gold.

 

[Aimar16]

Yeah, I have meanwhile found original video on Eurosport https://www.eurosport.com/figure-sk...-figure-skating-silver_sto8801366/story.shtml

This is not the whole video, strangely they cut out the worst parts. The camera continued to stalk her... It was unbearable to watch

She seemed much calmer at the press conference and explained why she was angry.

I haven't won a major competition in three years. I put it down to the fact that I was trying to reach a certain goal, that is, I set myself more and more quadruplets. And I thought that when I got to that point, I would win. It didn't happen

I did my best, the first time I skated a free program with five quadruple jumps cleanly at the competition. But I'm not satisfied with the result, so I was angry and upset