"Fight like hell" on a 80 km/h downhill stretch seems like a recipe for disaster. If something happens there (and the chances are bigger if everyone is trying to be in the front), the consequences can be very serious. Like we saw yesterday.
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I agree.Yeah, it's obviously not an almost career ending injury (WVA isn't being treated by French doctors this time, so I guess he should be ok ), but he will probably still be going through many of the same emotions as Beloki did back then.
That's not true. I think both should be grateful to one another because such rivalry likely made them who they are now and if not for the other, they wouldn't have perhaps trained so hard.(if MvdP wasn't born, WvA would already have cemented his status as national hero winning RVV, Worlds, ... in Flanders and probably have a statue in his hometown)
I don't agree with this. You get disappointed or depressed by what seems to be within your reach given your set of skills. Only 5 riders can get depressed not winning the Tour.If WvA has to be sad about not having won too many big races, 99% of the peloton should be very depressed.
That's Jorgenson's notes to himself, no?But the interesting thing I noticed about Visma's notes about Dwars door Vlaanderen:
I don't think he is heavier than Indurain was.I agree.
Also, one fine detail: WVA is likely the tallest, heaviest contender in UCI all time 100 ranking. Meaning, that when he crashes, viewers are not very impressed by their bruises and crying because his body does not look frail at all.
Beloki, on the other hand, thin and small framed, looked like a ragged doll of sorts.
I think the change of coach was much needed, and so far it didn't seem to have hurt him one bit. Of course it would have been nice to get confirmation, but I don't think that will bother WVA as much as simply not having the chance to go for his main career goals once again. He can win every race in the world, if he hasn't won Flanders or Roubaix when he retires it will still feel like a failure.We'll see.
What's certain is it happened at the worst possible moment for him. There's never a 'right' time to get demolished in a crash of course but WvA had a disappointing 2023 season by his standards. He'd lost his coach as well (followed Rog to Bora) & was on a new schedule/program aiming to peak in the spring monuments.
He needed a confidence boost so this is a real setback.
Now you're just in frustrated fan mode. Other frustrated Wout fans have targeted Jorgenson for attacking after that crash, and cheering at the finish line. Like what did you expect, he would stand still at the side of the road in mourning? This was just a racing incident, Van Aert touched Benoot's wheel. That could also have happened at the back of the group (in fact there the risk is higher) so I don't see your point. The speed would have been the same. Crashes are part of cycling, this time it's Van Aert, last year it was Pogi in LBL. It happens."km 121 will be chaos on downhill but fight like hell to be with the guys"
I mean: if you read this carefully, the crash was a selffulfilling prophecy, and Visma has to think REAL hard how much responsability they want to take for this crash, given the way these notes ask for nothing else than to ride agressive and take serious risks crashing, for no other reason that setting up an attack for WvA to win this race. There was a time when prep races were just that: prepare for the big race. If WvA (but Visma in the first place) treated this race like a prep race, testing out tactics, e.g. send Benoot / Jorgensen up the road, or let WvA chase attacks rather than be the one to attack,... or in other words: Visma could have eased up just a bit in this race, still win it, but learn a lot more from racing differently than the plan they had now, which was to obliterate the competition already on Kanarieberg. What would they have learned from that, in preparation for trying to beat MvdP on Sunday? Not much it seems. Maybe whether they could drop Stuyven / Pedersen, but that's about it.
Dont take a risk in De Ronde cause Roubaix is next weekReading way too much into it. Riders might as well hibernate until their season goal with that mentality.
I'm pointing out the discrepancy between Visma and WvA acknowledging that this stretch is very dangerous, while simultaneously handing out notes that they should ride it like hell in order to set up an attack on Kanarieberg.Now you're just in frustrated fan mode.
I honestly don't know what the part in bold is in reply to what I've said? Like you want to link that to my opinion (spoiler: I think exactly the opposite).Other frustrated Wout fans have targeted Jorgenson for attacking after that crash, and cheering at the finish line. Like what did you expect, he would stand still at the side of the road in mourning?
first, Pogi was a big hole in the road, not a racing incident, just a road that isn't good enough to race on.This was just a racing incident, Van Aert touched Benoot's wheel. That could also have happened at the back of the group (in fact there the risk is higher) so I don't see your point. The speed would have been the same. Crashes are part of cycling, this time it's Van Aert, last year it was Pogi in LBL. It happens.
Here's another controversial opinion because I know this guy a bit: I'll say Benoot will finish higher in RVV than Jorgenson. He was almost equal yesterday and is still recovering from crashing. He's very resilient and is improving.Here's a controversial option because why not: Jorgenson was stronger than Van Aert anyway. I believe he was stronger on Friday as well.
Ofcourse he wasn't a nailed-on winner, that's MvdP.That's one of the details which will forever remain a mystery now because from my chair here I haven't been convinced WvA was on the right track form-wise. He certainly wasn't one of my favorites for Flanders.
So... I don't agree with some comments around the internet whereby WvA just 'lost' Flanders & Roubaix. He lost the chance to compete, yes, but he wasn't a nailed-on winner for either monument.
I completely agree. In previous years, WvA seemed more dominant than this spring and never have won any significant monument, Olympics or rainbow (obviously, besides M-SR).So... I don't agree with some comments around the internet whereby WvA just 'lost' Flanders & Roubaix. He lost the chance to compete, yes, but he wasn't a nailed-on winner for either monument.
I completely agree here. Aggressive tactics in extreme high speed situations with the sort of inertia you expect on a downhill with wind is just very high risk/reduced chance of reward. And it turned out that way, sure they got some reward (separation in the pack), but they did so while (so to speak) taking out several top riders, including their own. I don't blame a particular rider, but it was just stupid given it was a location known to be risky.I'm pointing out the discrepancy between Visma and WvA acknowledging that this stretch is very dangerous, while simultaneously handing out notes that they should ride it like hell in order to set up an attack on Kanarieberg.
I honestly don't know what the part in bold is in reply to what I've said? Like you want to link that to my opinion (spoiler: I think exactly the opposite).
first, Pogi was a big hole in the road, not a racing incident, just a road that isn't good enough to race on.
Second, yes, this was a racing incident, but a self-provoked racing incident. WvA touched Benoot's wheel as Benoot was eager to move up with WvA, swinging hard to the left in order to pass a fading Tim Van Dijcke, and Benoot even got out of the saddle at 70K/hr in a downhill, creating even more sudden movement of his rear wheel.
Either Benoot (or another domestique) accelerates seated going 70k/hr in order to keep position, or you just allow other riders to move in front and start the next hill from 10th-15th. Visma just didn't have the right guys / firepower at that moment to lead the bunch to the next curve: the Visma management made a plan to dominate the race, but without Tratnik, van Baarle, Laporte,... they simply lacked the guys executing the plan.
So in the end, Visma had an unrealistic plan to attack on Kanarieberg, they had it in their notes they should ride like hell. At the same time, they already expressed their concerns to RVV organisers that this stretch is very dangerous (the reason Kanarieberg won't feature anymore in RVV). Maybe they should reflect a bit on risk assessment.
I completely agree. In previous years, WvA seemed more dominant than this spring and never have won any significant monument, Olympics or rainbow (obviously, besides M-SR).
One correction on what I wrote:I completely agree here. Aggressive tactics in extreme high speed situations with the sort of inertia you expect on a downhill with wind is just very high risk/reduced chance of reward. And it turned out that way, sure they got some reward (separation in the pack), but they did so while (so to speak) taking out several top riders, including their own. I don't blame a particular rider, but it was just stupid given it was a location known to be risky.
I already thought the same thing: you can't train intervals on bad roads / cobbles on Tenerife as well as in Flanders, and for sure you aren't training bike handling / riding in a nervous peloton /... On the other hand, WvA has won Omloop coming out of altitude, so it must be his shape is best coming out of altitude camp.By the way, I have thought this before, I do not think Tenerife is the best place to prepare for cobbled victory. Sure, altitude can have results. But I believe initially Sky's cobble team had these great Tenerife camps followed by shyte cobbled performances?
It is clear that the guys from the Tenerife group were not quite as sharp on their bikes in the last few races. Sure, that could be because they had just come back from altitude. But another issue is coming back from sun, nice quality (and dry) roads, steady inclines, etc. I've just never been convinced that Tenerife is the place to train for the northern classics
Exactly what Beloki is saying isn’t it? about putting in all that time and dedication to get to the pinnacle of the sport and it all disappears in a secondYeah, it's obviously not an almost career ending injury (WVA isn't being treated by French doctors this time, so I guess he should be ok ), but he will probably still be going through many of the same emotions as Beloki did back then.
My guess was that the switching training to include this altitude camp was primary aimed at one major task: being able to stay with MVDP on Oude Kwaremont. Obviously, his training regimen last year was able to get him to winning form for Roubaix, so I don’t know why they would have changed things up for that race. Doesn’t matter now though.By the way, I have thought this before, I do not think Tenerife is the best place to prepare for cobbled victory. Sure, altitude can have results. But I believe initially Sky's cobble team had these great Tenerife camps followed by shyte cobbled performances?
It is clear that the guys from the Tenerife group were not quite as sharp on their bikes in the last few races. Sure, that could be because they had just come back from altitude. But another issue is coming back from sun, nice quality (and dry) roads, steady inclines, etc. I've just never been convinced that Tenerife is the place to train for the northern classics
They could be predictably more serious if you lag back and the crash comes to you, like Pog's pothole punt. Riding overlapped is always a risk unless it's an orderly sidewind echelon and then; it's still risky."Fight like hell" on a 80 km/h downhill stretch seems like a recipe for disaster. If something happens there (and the chances are bigger if everyone is trying to be in the front), the consequences can be very serious. Like we saw yesterday.
Cobbles demand power and generally all seated; slower rpm efforts. Altitude builds red-cell counts but denies the opportunity to stress the very efforts needed for a rough race. Gotta space those two disciplines to achieve much.By the way, I have thought this before, I do not think Tenerife is the best place to prepare for cobbled victory. Sure, altitude can have results. But I believe initially Sky's cobble team had these great Tenerife camps followed by shyte cobbled performances?
It is clear that the guys from the Tenerife group were not quite as sharp on their bikes in the last few races. Sure, that could be because they had just come back from altitude. But another issue is coming back from sun, nice quality (and dry) roads, steady inclines, etc. I've just never been convinced that Tenerife is the place to train for the northern classics
Like ManicJack said above, DS’s seem to have (when we can hear them on the radio) this knee-jerk inclination to be always putting the utmost urgency on “get to the front . . . Move up . . . you have to be in the 20 riders at the corner, etc” as though every juncture in the race is equally important."Fight like hell" on a 80 km/h downhill stretch seems like a recipe for disaster. If something happens there (and the chances are bigger if everyone is trying to be in the front), the consequences can be very serious. Like we saw yesterday.