Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Offline]

Ayuso should be doing Giro-Vuelta this year. This route is perfect for him and he could be on the podium behind Pogacar. He is not a world class climber and we could see that in Romandie.

I think he'll do Giro-Vuelta next year.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Ayuso should be doing Giro-Vuelta this year. This route is perfect for him and he could be on the podium behind Pogacar. He is not a world class climber and we could see that in Romandie.

Wasn't that end of a cycle for him and his form was pointing downwards already? I don't know if Romandie is that telling.

Doesn't change the fact, that he still has some developing to do. I wonder if he really will be as bad as an domestique for Pogacar as people make it out to be. But we will see at the Tour.

Btw. talking about who should be left out at the Tour for a Bjerg (if he got the form): maybe Soler? I mean he does Soler things, which is funny, but looking at the team they could maybe use a rouleur, or does Almeida have to do pulls on the flat?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Bardet was criticizing UAE yesterday, claiming they shouldn't have fought for the stage. What a loser, if he wanted to win stages he should lose time to not threat the gc riders. However he is fighting for seconds in the intergiro and going all out after being caught. Does he complain when sprint teams don't let 15 riders go to the break and gaining 10 minutes in sprint stages? I don't think so... or sprinters are the only ones allowed to win multiple stages?

 

[Salvarani]

Ayuso should be doing Giro-Vuelta this year. This route is perfect for him and he could be on the podium behind Pogacar. He is not a world class climber and we could see that in Romandie.

No, next year. He was never doing Giro with Pog attempting the double, so he gets to do the Tour this year to win the Youth classification... because he wasnt gonna do three Vueltas in a row.

I think Romandie was just one race too many and he might have gotten sick in Ardennes or just run out of form.

 

[Netserk]

Majka is Pogacars most loyal domestique in the mountains, but his level isn't the highest on the team by any stretch. He made the team because UAE didn't bring Almeida and/or Ayuso in previous years. With the trio of Almeida, Ayuso and Yates, there's no need to bring a tired Majka at all.

Not only loyal, also very experienced (and reliable). Much better to have him here than Almeida when it comes to managing the rest of the helpers.

 

[scribers]

Wasn't that end of a cycle for him and his form was pointing downwards already? I don't know if Romandie is that telling.

Doesn't change the fact, that he still has some developing to do. I wonder if he really will be as bad as an domestique for Pogacar as people make it out to be. But we will see at the Tour.

Btw. talking about who should be left out at the Tour for a Bjerg (if he got the form): maybe Soler? I mean he does Soler things, which is funny, but looking at the team they could maybe use a rouleur, or does Almeida have to do pulls on the flat?

uae should demand a top result from Ayuso at dauphine or leave him off the tour squad

 

[scribers]

Sure, but the older generation guys are speaking from the unwritten gentleman's agreement that used to prevail in cycling, but evidently, as with all modern business relationships today, no longer does. For example, if it's a sprinters's stage the race leader stays out off their turf, since sprinters have limited GT opportunities to net a victory that may be vital to secure next year's contract. Stuff like this or keeping rival teams at least not trying to sabotage you against their own interests, just out of spite to make you lose. This, to answer your question, is how the pissed off can respond to untoward imperious dominance. Yet in today's cycling I don't know if such recourse would be taken, because the call for results is just too strong.

This is a sensible explanation of conduct. The uphill kicker might have suited a non GC combatant. I looked like pogi was trolling the peloton and I get that’s unwise to do. Not letting a break win when Pogi didn’t much improve his position is another lesser example. Elsewhere in this thread bardet had difficulty with that situation. I’m a little less sympathetic. Bardet took a chance and ended up two more minutes overall.

 

[jmdirt]

But it was the working part he had issue with. Once it was brought together of course Pog was gonna go for it, and nobody said he shouldn't as far as I can tell.

Kelly's point was that they could have saved energy and let the not very dangerous breakaway get a bigger gap. Which, as was pointed out, has become a bit of an oldschool approach, but I can see a case being made both ways. It did seem a bit unnecessary to drill it all through the day just after Pogacar had asserted his dominance in the time trial.

Its the first week of a GT, get time in the bank while you can.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He is playing with fire. Doing leadouts for a mediocre sprinter... this is nonsense!!

 

[Offline]

He is playing with fire. Doing leadouts for a mediocre sprinter... this is nonsense!!

SO STUPID!!!

 

[AnotherArmChair]

when Pog implodes on the last week of the Tour there will be a few happy Giro riders watching on TV

 

[Salvarani]

Great first week!

Looking really good and providing great moments.

Molano got 3rd in the sprint from his lead-out today and he giving something back to a teammate. Not bad going into the rest day with this.

 

[Red Rick]

Do people really think a ~30 second effort is gonna make any difference 2 months from now? He could probably use the training on a day like this.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Do people really think a ~30 second effort is gonna make any difference 2 months from now? He could probably use the training on a day like this.

Of course not, I was talking about crashes.

 

[Offline]

Do people really think a ~30 second effort is gonna make any difference 2 months from now? He could probably use the training on a day like this.

It's not the effort, but the risk for me.

 

[Red Rick]

It's not the effort, but the risk for me.

It's less risky in a reduced bunch. He was wheelsurfing in 5th position anyway, and the least risk to crash is actually te be all the way in the front.

 

[Netserk]

It's less risky in a reduced bunch. He was wheelsurfing in 5th position anyway, and the least risk to crash is actually te be all the way in the front.

He battled Milan for position before the corners.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

He battled Milan for position before the corners.

To me it looked like he handled himself pretty elegantly overall with his maneuvering. Maybe I overlooked something but I am unsure I saw anything that'd qualify as battling.

 

[Panda Claws]

I am just gonna imagine he did it to spite Narvaez.

 

[Oldermanish]

I was only relating what I heard spoken from the mouths of several pro cyclists from the 70s, 80s and 90s, so there is no point in arguing the matter. The point, I think, is that the sport isn't only one man's mission (or child's game), but driven by a myriad of interests involving sponsorship deals, riders' contracts, mafioso vested interests, etc., and here, one needs to be prudent, unless you got the system by the cogliones, which Pogi does not.

Totally agree on the history and the strategic advantage of "sharing". In the older days the DS could cut deals for mutual support: GC teams could control the pack and yield to a sprinter's interest on another team. Likewise, expecting sprinter team support for a grinding stage to save their domestiques for hilly efforts to come.
Now the race strategy could still allow for collaboration but every rider gets instant instructions in their ear. The changing situation in a race can be much more volatile and difficult to deliver on a promise so pledging the team's effort can go to waste. That's why Pogi doesn't completely have the race gripped by the cajones.

 

[scribers]

when Pog implodes on the last week of the Tour there will be a few happy Giro riders watching on TV

I have a difficult time arguing against this idea.

 

[Oldermanish]

He is playing with fire. Doing leadouts for a mediocre sprinter... this is nonsense!!

I can see the safety of taking a pull to stay in a better pack position....up to the 3km mark. He was caught in the serious danger zone against the barriers in the last km when he could've gone for clear territory on the long straight and been safer.
He kinda lost his mind trying to get a team victory on a largely downhill finish. Somebody should tell him this ain't the place.

 

[Oldermanish]

when Pog implodes on the last week of the Tour there will be a few happy Giro riders watching on TV

if that happens then all critics will also be genius race strategists, too. Self congratulations all around for those that don't care for him in this race....which is not done yet.
IMO he should be more "defensive" in his racing but the Roglic thread is full of opinions that he is a "wheelsucker" and deserved to lose the Tour to an aggressive Pogacar.
Tadej's been on both sides of that situation and won once, lost once. i can see why he might want 5 minutes in the bank for that one Bad Day.

 

[Valv.Piti]

It's less risky in a reduced bunch. He was wheelsurfing in 5th position anyway, and the least risk to crash is actually te be all the way in the front.

Did you watch it? No need for that, like, at all. Its still 80-100 riders and way too risky for little to no gain. Still wouldn't have been worth it had he won, and its still incredibly stupid for UAE to bring him in the first place. Complete nonsense!

Meanwhile you're probably defending Vingegaard for not leading Wout out in last year's start in the Basque country when he easily could have won. Molano is like the 10th best sprinter here and Pog should just not be doing this. *** dumb.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Enjoy your rest day champ! Time to hibernate before the storm against the clock (stage 14)!! This Giro is really one of the easiest GT's I've ever seen (probably the easiest Giro that I ever watched it), even the weather is helping. This must be unique, probably the hottest Giro ever too!