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Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Froome

Froome

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CyclistAbi said:
@Froome

The claim was made about the "sterrato stage". That is on how Rogla can potentially beat Pogi at Tour 2024 but due to the crashes the "sterrato stage" goes against his odd. I just wanted to point out it is rather baseless to say that, expecting such stage to have such an effect on Rogla, based on the past. It will likely be more about damage control in the case of a puncture, or similar. More about luck then rider bike handling ability, so all riders to be potentially affected.

As for Jonas i do agree as we simply can not know yet based on the past. It's just that i underlined this stage, on where the duo should try to crack Jonas and the rest is indeed up to Jonas.
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He has a good chance of being stronger than Pogacar in the Tour if he get's out of trouble, because i don't believe for a second that Pogacar will survive in the brutal last week of the Tour after having the Giro and two weeks of the Tour in his legs. Even so, i don't expect Roglic to take time on Pogacar in the sterrato stage.

Despite that, don't forget that Vingegaard can still be at the Tour. He is the man to beat there.
 
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BullsFan22

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Really excited to see how Tadej’s Giro-Tour attempt goes. I think he’ll be on the podium in both. It’ll be tough to double up, but should he win the Giro without too many problems, and can stay safe and ‘conserve’ energy in the early parts of the Tour, I think he’ll have a chance to achieve the double.
 
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velaso montador

velaso montador

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Teddy enters Giro for the first time. Should be fun. Gonne be interesting se their approach to this since we all know the goal of the double its just not as easy as pump and dump in the giro.

Unleash the kraken on the Giro I guess poor souls
 
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CyclistAbi

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@Froome

I don't expect Rogla to take (or lose) time on Pogi at the "sterrato stage".

@Rob5091

Giro will likely consume Pogi and all the pre race ideas on how to preserve energy to go straight to the shambles.

As for pre-season expectations. We all kind of looked forward to see big 4 battling it out at the Tour, all 4 being distinctive enough for some special race dynamics involved. This ideas in my opinion were over before the season really started. ATM i have them:

Giro - Pogi
Tour - Rogla
Vuelta - Jonas

Such predictions obvisuly can change by the hour as in the end this is still cycling we are talking about. But now lets focus on Giro and lets see on how that goes. A bond with Tifosi, that would be a plus too. We'll see.
 
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Froome

Froome

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CyclistAbi said:
@Froome

I don't expect Rogla to take (or lose) time on Pogi at the "sterrato stage".

@Rob5091

Giro will likely consume Pogi and all the pre race ideas on how to preserve energy to go straight to the shambles.

As for pre-season expectations. We all kind of looked forward to see big 4 battling it out at the Tour, all 4 being distinctive enough for some special race dynamics involved. This ideas in my opinion were over before the season really started. ATM i have them:

Giro - Pogi
Tour - Rogla
Vuelta - Jonas

Such predictions obvisuly can change by the hour as in the end this is still cycling we are talking about. But now lets focus on Giro and lets see on how that goes. A bond with Tifosi, that would be a plus too. We'll see.
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"Tour-Rogla".

This is very suspicious coming from you @CyclistAbi !
 
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Froome

Froome

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CyclistAbi said:
If i would try not to be objective i would say Tour-Vuelta double by Rogla, still motivated and fresh Jonas is something i can't overlook, so it currently looks rather grim in respect to any cyclist achieving a double this year.
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I can agree with you at this point of the season because i don't believe Pogacar will survive to the last week of the Tour after being in a good level since the beginning of May, Vingegaard is an uncertainty, so Roglic can be the favourite.

If we were in the beginning of the season, Vingegaard and Pogacar would be more favourites to win the Tour than Roglic because they are stronger than him.
 
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CyclistAbi

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Froome said:
If we were in the beginning of the season, Vingegaard and Pogacar would be more favourites to win the Tour than Roglic because they are stronger than him.
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Yeah and Rogla is old and *** like that, i know, it comes with the job. Luckily the road doesn't care. And Rogla has a good relationship with the road, hitting the deck so often.

P.S. As for Remco yes i still do have him as the dark horse although i don't believe he will be in the same form as he would be without the injury involved.
 
Froome

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CyclistAbi said:
Yeah and Rogla is old and *** like that, i know, it comes with the job. Luckily the road doesn't care. And Rogla has a good relationship with the road, hitting the deck so often.

P.S. As for Remco yes i still do have him as the dark horse although i don't believe he will be in the same form as he would be without the injury involved.
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I never said that, and i don't think he is old because he started later in cycling. He still has at least more 3 good seasons.

I just simply think in normal conditions, Vingegaard and Pogacar are stronger GT riders than him.
 
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Froome

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CyclistAbi said:
Years of Omi & Opi, Sonny, hay bale, not selected for the Tour team ... and similar abuse could persuade some into believing that. People more perceptive to that usually aren't Rogla fans in the first place.
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C'mon mate, Roglic never did perfomances like Pogacar did on LPDBF, romme+colombiere, or perfomances like Vingegaard did on granon, hautacam or the TT of last year.

I think even Roglic fans admit they are stronger than him, but like i said, Roglic can win the Tour this year due the circumstances.
 
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CyclistAbi

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@Froome

When it comes to Rogličes numbers all i can say is i am optimistic. As for the point i was trying to make, perception, if lets say Pogi or Jonas would be the one, finishing second, at the Tour 2020. And from that point on to not finish or participate at the Tour any more. What would your perception be in regards to their chances to win the Tour 2024?

So yeah, circumstances do play an important role, including when it comes to the perception. Anyway, we can discuss this further after the Giro. Now lets see if Pogi can drop the hammer at stage one or we will have to wait all the way to stage two.
 
Froome

Froome

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CyclistAbi said:
@Froome

When it comes to Rogličes numbers all i can say is i am optimistic. As for the point i was trying to make, perception, if lets say Pogi or Jonas would be the one, finishing second, at the Tour 2020. And from that point on to not finish or participate at the Tour any more. What would your perception be in regards to their chances to win the Tour 2024?

So yeah, circumstances do play an important role, including when it comes to the perception. Anyway, we can discuss this further after the Giro. Now lets see if Pogi can drop the hammer at stage one or we will have to wait all the way to stage two.
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If Pogi finished 2nd in the Tour 2020 it would be because Roglic were stronger than him, but it wasn't the case.
Pogacar already proved in 2020 that he was stronger than Roglic. Roglic also benefited from Pogacar losing 45 seconds in the echelons. The only time he dropped Pogacar, was on la loze, just 15 seconds. That's a real perception.
 
bNator

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Froome said:
If Pogi finished 2nd in the Tour 2020 it would be because Roglic were stronger than him, but it wasn't the case.
Pogacar already proved in 2020 that he was stronger than Roglic. Roglic also benefited from Pogacar losing 45 seconds in the echelons. The only time he dropped Pogacar, was on la loze, just 15 seconds. That's a real perception.
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It’s no more real than Abi’s. Another perception is Rogla put time into Pog when he thought it was necessary which is the way he always raced. Unfortunately for him, his assessment of his own and especially Pog’s TT ability was way off.
 
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CyclistAbi

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Froome said:
If Pogi finished 2nd in the Tour 2020 it would be because Roglic were stronger than him, but it wasn't the case.
Pogacar already proved in 2020 that he was stronger than Roglic. Roglic also benefited from Pogacar losing 45 seconds in the echelons. The only time he dropped Pogacar, was on la loze, just 15 seconds. That's a real perception.
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That wasn't the question but OK. Anyway, for altering your (selective) perception hence Rogla must win at the Tour 2024. Somehow i feel that next year, defending, you will claim on how Jonas already proved ...

I do get it, Rogla needs to win back to back. I must say some tough perception you got there but OK, we all like challenges.
 
velaso montador

velaso montador

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Roglic can win the Tour but hes up against a different Pogacar now. Then he was just a great rider now hes arguably evolved into the best rider of all time...(if you dont like me saying it look no further than Gerraint Thomas and Gilbert own words i guess they know 100x more than fans here :sweatsmile: )

Anyway Roglic can win the Tour indeed if Pogacar is fatigued from the Giro like evenpoel, Vinge and others. Its a unknown properly for uae and pog how this double will impact his body - its hard to know before one tried.

It would be very cool actually if Pogacar won the Giro, Roglic won the Tour and Vingegaard won the Vuelta. Then everyone would win something for their first time, but if it goes down like that is another question its why you watch i suppose everything can happen. I myself think maby pog needs to crash for anyone else besides him winning but time will tell he might not be able to do the double just like other greats wasnt close to like Contador etc its far from easy on your body so guesswork how he will be react as of now.
 
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CyclistAbi

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velaso montador said:
Roglic can win the Tour but hes up against a different Pogacar now. Then he was just a great rider now hes arguably evolved into the best rider of all time...(if you dont like me saying it look no further than Gerraint Thomas and Gilbert own words i guess they know 100x more than fans here :sweatsmile: )
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I am OK if Rogla goes against lineal GOAT by selection at the Tour and wins.

velaso montador said:
Will he go for the jersey today or tomorrow already? Its 4 sprint stages after were sprint teams will share the work anyway. I think he will.
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Rogla went at it on the last day and i assume Pogi will go after it on the first day. It's just different philosophy. Like Ebony and Ivory.
 
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