Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Tim Cahill]

Does anyone know of an example a rider competing for a win in a GT then turning up at the next one at an even higher level? Pantani, Froome, Contador, Dumolin did well but seemed at a slightly lower level in the second one, I wasn't watching when Indurain did it twice but looking at the results it seems like he was? Pogacar will need to be a bit better in The Tour than here and I'm sure that will be the plan, it's worth trying but just don't know if it can be done due to their place in the current calendar.

I only have a little knowledge, but unsure as to the exact length of modern mesocycles in cycling, i would say it just seems to be completely impossible to be better in the Tour than the Giro given how awkward the gap is between the two. He might take heart from how good Vingegaard looked on the Angliru last year but the gap inbetween was slightly different.

I think the ideal path is probably to start at a base level then crescendo, Contador did the opposite in 2015 and it killed his chances, with Astana doing big attacks just to *** with him by the end. Supercompensation doesn't last long enough so it can't be done that way, though one thing is for sure the streets will never forget Wilco Kelderman's ride at the 2014 Dauphine.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Was Indurain better climber than Pog? Was he better classic rider? Just asking

Don't be fooled by Indurain's big frame, he was the 2nd fastest climber of all time according to timings on multiple big climbs.

 

[snipeheem]

Don't be fooled by Indurain's big frame, he was the 2nd fastest climber of all time according to timings on multiple big climbs.

Crazy stuff

 

[Extinction]

Pantani was perhaps even better in the 98 Tour than in the Giro, but he started off slowly in the French race to reach an incredible level.

 

[Peyroteo94]

GT's are harder these days compared to the 90's. First week were sunday rides back in the 90's and I'm not even talking about clinic stuff that helped Indurain and Pantani to be competitive in both GT's.

 

[velaso montador]

Next 3 stages are crucial. He needs to avoid crashes and I'm almost sure that we will have at least one big crash in the next 3 days. If I was him, I would go with my team to the back of peloton even if I could potentially lose 30 seconds in pile ups.

Since its pouring on the ocean in southern france right now while im scrolling my phone got me thinking I do believe the forecast for tomorrow was terrible too for the stage? add to that the first sprint stage it will most likely be chaos.

 

[scribers]

GT's are harder these days compared to the 90's. First week were sunday rides back in the 90's and I'm not even talking about clinic stuff that helped Indurain and Pantani to be competitive in both GT's.

You can make the argument segments of stages were easier if you look at how they race from the gun now. But they've always been quite hard and nervous opening week.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Dumoulin very underrated on here

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787145280472658017

View: https://x.com/naichacacycling/status/1787145280472658017?s=46&t=14N416zK93up_7bVPO60Ig

 

[Extinction]

Dumoulin very underrated on here

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787145280472658017

View: https://x.com/naichacacycling/status/1787145280472658017?s=46&t=14N416zK93up_7bVPO60Ig

I assume, since they were already on the climb when he dropped his chain, Pantani's time of a little over 17 minutes includes the 10-15 secs he lost in the incident. Correct?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I assume, since they were already on the climb when he dropped his chain, Pantani's time of a little over 17 minutes includes the 10-15 secs he lost in the incident. Correct?

No, the timing is for the last 6.7 k, after Pantani had resolved his bike issues.

 

[Extinction]

No, the timing is for the last 6.7 k, after Pantani had resolved his bike issues.

For the record then, Pantani: 17:04, 23.17 Kph, VAM 1881 m/h.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Dumoulin very underrated on here

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787145280472658017

View: https://x.com/naichacacycling/status/1787145280472658017?s=46&t=14N416zK93up_7bVPO60Ig

Pogi wasn't great (to his own standards) but Majka's tempo was not good. He had to decrease the pace for 300 m to be able to launch Pogi in a harder section.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

If the climbing level of UAE demonstrated thus far becomes the norm, this is actually one of the worst climbing setups for a GC winner in the last few years. Majka can‘t reduce the field past 25 guys. So far it‘s only beating 2022 Vuelta Quickstep, 2017 Giro Sunweb (and possibly 2020 Tour UAE). That is one of the primary factors for making a good Grand Tour but not good for energy saving.

 

[Blanco]

Of course, but who knows if he will even need it for the Tour this year.

Oh yes, he will...

 

[Blanco]

GT's are harder these days compared to the 90's. First week were sunday rides back in the 90's and I'm not even talking about clinic stuff that helped Indurain and Pantani to be competitive in both GT's.

Yeah, and now we don't have that fortunately...

 

[hayneplane]

If the climbing level of UAE demonstrated thus far becomes the norm, this is actually one of the worst climbing setups for a GC winner in the last few years. Majka can‘t reduce the field past 25 guys. So far it‘s only beating 2022 Vuelta Quickstep, 2017 Giro Sunweb (and possibly 2020 Tour UAE). That is one of the primary factors for making a good Grand Tour but not good for energy saving.

I think the riders have misjudged how they were feeling hence Grosschartner dropping on Stage 1 while barely working and Novak today not doing a serious turn on the front before dropping.

 

[jmdirt]

FYI: Tadej Pogacar just won stage 2 of the 2024 Giro d' Italia.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So basically Barbie vs Oppenheimer all over again?

Good job today on stage 2.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Pogacar wouldn't want to be at his best yet even if he wasn't doing the Tour. Never thought I'd hear people complaining about a guy winning a stage by 'only' 27 seconds.

 

[Tonton]

Pogi wasn't great (to his own standards) but Majka's tempo was not good. He had to decrease the pace for 300 m to be able to launch Pogi in a harder section.

This ^^^

Poor team tactics, again...after all UAE is the team that blows itself up in La Cipressa again and again...the insanes...and they're magicians too, like today, when in one kilometer, the team disappeared...abracadabra! Ineos must have had a good laugh seeing UAE riders drop like the bad guys in a Chuck Norris movie...

UAE should have learned by now that having the best rider in the world is not always enough to win a GT. Who makes the decisions? Is it the DS or Pogacar? If it's the team, you fail. If it's Tadej, understand that racing every stage like it is a one-day race, the Merckx style, you'll meet your Vingegaard. or yourThévenet. If you don't care and all you want is to win everything...good for you.

 

[bNator]

Indurain was faster than Pogi is. He was a better rider.

For greatness, Merckx is of course alone at the top.

If you don't want to compare riders across eras, it doesn't make much sense to start off with proclaiming the superiority over all other times.

But what does it mean - “faster”? If you are referring to his speed in TT, he probably was - he was the best TTer of his era and Pog isn’t. If you are referring to his speed in the climbs, that simply can’t be true. If it was, Indurain would have won a couple of MTF finish stages in TdF. He won none. Pog already won what, 10? And in the classics terrain, I think we can all agree Pog is faster.

So peer-based comparison tells us apart from TT, Pog is faster in pretty much every other context, I’d say…

 

[CyclistAbi]

I haven't decided yet if i should "blame" the team or Pogi just decided he likes to attack early. I mean if he had better team, and UAE could bring better team to Giro, somehow i feel that he would still push them to the extent he would go early, relative to the climb. So i guess this is just something he now prefers to do. To attack a bit early in the ultimate climb, like i guess Jonas does that often too. Likely due to such strategy, if fruitful, producing bigger margins. Rogla on the other hand still happy to win in the final couple of meters, no real plans to change that, still happy with a gain of a second or two.

 

[dazaau]

This ^^^

Poor team tactics, again...after all UAE is the team that blows itself up in La Cipressa again and again...the insanes...and they're magicians too, like today, when in one kilometer, the team disappeared...abracadabra! Ineos must have had a good laugh seeing UAE riders drop like the bad guys in a Chuck Norris movie...

UAE should have learned by now that having the best rider in the world is not always enough to win a GT. Who makes the decisions? Is it the DS or Pogacar? If it's the team, you fail. If it's Tadej, understand that racing every stage like it is a one-day race, the Merckx style, you'll meet your Vingegaard. or yourThévenet. If you don't care and all you want is to win everything...good for you.

They seem to be doing fine to me. It is the B team and they aren't a bunch of super dom climbers so they are doing what they can with what they have.

You have to recognise uae and pogi are trying to win two GTs back to back which involves all sorts of compromises for both the team and pogacar's form leading into each GT.

 

[Sciatic]

Pogacar wouldn't want to be at his best yet even if he wasn't doing the Tour. Never thought I'd hear people complaining about a guy winning a stage by 'only' 27 seconds.

That’s because he’s competing against that toughest of rivals . . . Expectations.

 

[Pantani_lives]

That was a superb impression of Pantani in the Giro 1999. Half a minute is the maximum one can get on a climb like that. However now it's time to switch to his impression of Indurain 1992.