2018 vs 2008

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

I agree that it appears Landa was not subjected to the Sky treatment

Another question is what was the Astana treatment? That 2015 Giro is as insane as anything I've ever seen. Were they told to cool it? Is that Sky's secret? Did they have protection for a few years until they were also told to cool it with Lappartient coming in? But by then were too rich to lose any cases?

Certainly a possibility. US Postal and Lance also didn't have some fancy miracle drug, others didn't have. Of course, their program was top notch (thanks Dr. Ferrari), but other contenders also had a good program. What really made the difference in my opinion is that Lance had the UCI basically in his hand. Make a positive test disappear? Sure. Others going too fast or ride "not normal" like Lance put it? No Problem either, they will get a warning or ban.

 

[ppanther92]

Re:

that's a real tough question to compare the present day to 2008. I believe modern cycling got much cleaner in terms of using hard-core doping, i.e. blood transfusions and epo, however, it definately stepped forward when it comes to weight and body fat loss methods. only time will tell whether these shredding tips relate to grey or black doping area,

Who defines what is "hard-core Doping"? What if losing weight without losing power is even more efficient than maipulating blood? I for me can not answer this questions. My general assumption is that the Peloton is comparable dirty probably, but 2008 was at least a year of way more hope of heading in the right direction than 2018.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

that's a real tough question to compare the present day to 2008. I believe modern cycling got much cleaner in terms of using hard-core doping, i.e. blood transfusions and epo, however, it definately stepped forward when it comes to weight and body fat loss methods. only time will tell whether these shredding tips relate to grey or black doping area,

Who defines what is "hard-core Doping"? What if losing weight without losing power is even more efficient than maipulating blood? I for me can not answer this questions. My general assumption is that the Peloton is comparable dirty probably, but 2008 was at least a year of way more hope of heading in the right direction than 2018.

After Puerto, Rasmussen’s removal in 07, Vino/Kash getting busted and Astana’s non invite to the 08 Tour there was some good reason to be optimistic. This was compounded by the likes of Ricco, Kohl, Schumacher and Rebellin getting busted for some of the most blatant doping in cycling history.

 

[staubsauger]

Keep in mind that without Shefer calling him back Landa would've won 3 tough mountain stages, the climbers jersey being the indisputably strongest climber in the race and placed 2nd at that Giro d'Italia!

Compared to 2008,Sella only won one stage out of the favorites group, only placed 2nd in the Corones mtt, but succeeded incredible mountain solos. That's arguably at least on-pair.

In fact Landa's 2015 Giro d'Italia was close to Pantani at the 1994 Giro, with normally one additional stage win and the mountains jersey. Only that Contador & Aru weren't exactly as strong opponents in 2015 as Berzin & Indurain were back in '94!

That's where Landani gets all his hailing from...

 

[franic]

Re:

Keep in mind that without Shefer calling him back Landa would've won 3 tough mountain stages, the climbers jersey being the indisputably strongest climber in the race and placed 2nd at that Giro d'Italia!

Compared to 2008,Sella only won one stage out of the favorites group, only placed 2nd in the Corones mtt, but succeeded incredible mountain solos. That's arguably at least on-pair.

In fact Landa's 2015 Giro d'Italia was close to Pantani at the 1994 Giro, with normally one additional stage win and the mountains jersey. Only that Contador & Aru weren't exactly as strong opponents in 2015 as Berzin & Indurain were back in '94!

That's where Landani gets all his hailing from...

I agree, but he has never been at the level afterwards if we exclude the Tour 2017. I would say:

Landa 2015 > Landa 2017 >>>>>>>>> any other Landa

 

[Bolder]

It's an interesting question. No doubt CSC were as dirty as any team has ever been but Sastre seems to have not participated in the fun. Today we would find that hard to believe, to put it mildly.

I don't think the sport is dirtier today. I just don't really detect any seismic shift that would indicate that doping is playing a smaller or larger role. There are less positives but that can be explained away by any number of valid arguments. We also haven't had any real revelations of wonder drugs, salbutamol aside. It's likely that what has happened is that those who are doping have figured out how to pass the testing protocol, whether by timing or by microdosing.

 

[staubsauger]

Rumor goes that Sastre only never got exposed for his CERA positive, because he won the Tour. Something Kohl should have tried as well, instead of stepping it down and settling with 3rd place and the polka dot jersey!