2023 Tour de France route rumors

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Oct 26, 2020
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The Tuscany start in 2024 could be an opportunity to go back to Corsica. It's a shorter ferry journey from Livorno or Piombino that from anywhere in mainland France. You could even break the journey and have a stage in Isola d'Elba.
 
I don't see them doing a Tour start that's going to end up with more than 3 stages consecutively before they get to France. They usually like to arrive in the home country at at least some point on the fourth stage when they do these types of start. The 2009 Vuelta had four complete stages before transferring to Spain, but that was with the rest day placed there and then they didn't visit any other countries at all.

I'd assume you're probably most likely to get something more like the 2014 British start, two stages in Tuscany, then transferring to somewhere closer to France to have a stage probably along the Ligurian coast to end somewhere in touching distance of the French border, and then a fourth stage starting somewhere like Menton, Nice or maybe Monaco if they fancy adding another state to the race, or, the fourth stage starts somewhere like Savona, Albenga, Imperia or Sanremo along the Italian coast and then heads into France via a stage with some of the mountains of the final Paris-Nice weekend.

Corsica would be more fun, though, because not being the Grand Départ they could use its geography a bit better (maybe even have a 'sort the wheat from the chaff' MTF at Col de l'Ospedale like the old Critérium International stages, or at the Ghisoni ski station), and because if they went just along the coast and into France near Nice, we've just had a route which would follow the same kind of design pattern in 2020, so would be a shame to go back to the well straight away.

Edit: this was my idea for a major mountain stage in Corsica for an experimental TDF route. Realistically this would not happen on a stage 4 or 5 kind of MTF like would be suggested by the return-from-Tuscany route order, but reasonably having a flat first half and then joining the route at Pont d'Altiani and doing the last couple of climbs back to back would be a good stage in that vein, the mountain is shallow enough to be more about who doesn't make the selection than who does, but also long enough to force a selection. Or, alternatively, if they decide to race like in 2022, all hell could break loose on the Col de Sorba. Stage start is Bastia, by the way.

 
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They could also do Torino > Gap without any climbs after Montgenèvre.

I can't remember what stages were rumoured in Italy, but Larche is another doable early pass.

EDIT:

Cyclingnews

The Tour de France has visited Italy a number of times but never started there. Thanks to an estimated €10 million fee raised by the Tuscany, Emilia-Romagna and Piemonte regions, the 2024 Grand Boucle will include three stages in Italy and the start of stage 4 in Pinerolo before the race heads into France via the Alps.
 
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not so much news so far. Some speculations about the hardest side of the Grand Ballon making his appearence in '23 or '24

https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/grand-est/haut-rhin/haut-rhin-la-route-de-la-discorde-pourrait-devenir-un-col-du-tour-de-france-2583848.html
Hmm, Vosgues to be at the end like in 2020? Or would they actually do a solid snake through France with Pyrenees - Massiv Central - Vosges - Alps?
In either case, I just wish they would do a monstrous mountain stage in the Vosges for once, as in +5000m elevation. Not these medium mountain stages or the typical nothing-> PdBF stage.
I really liked what they did with the women's Tour this year on stage 7, the Petit Ballon, Platzerwasel Combi is great.
 
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Hmm, Vosgues to be at the end like in 2020? Or would they actually do a solid snake through France with Pyrenees - Massiv Central - Vosges - Alps?
In either case, I just wish they would do a monstrous mountain stage in the Vosges for once, as in +5000m elevation. Not these medium mountain stages or the typical nothing-> PdBF stage.
I really liked what they did with the women's Tour this year on stage 7, the Petit Ballon, Platzerwasel Combi is great.
I'll take PB/Platzer combi any day over a Super Planche finish, but it's really meh for a final mountain block
 
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Hmm, Vosgues to be at the end like in 2020? Or would they actually do a solid snake through France with Pyrenees - Massiv Central - Vosges - Alps?
In either case, I just wish they would do a monstrous mountain stage in the Vosges for once, as in +5000m elevation. Not these medium mountain stages or the typical nothing-> PdBF stage.
I really liked what they did with the women's Tour this year on stage 7, the Petit Ballon, Platzerwasel Combi is great.
That is certainly possible. A modified version of a previous design of mine:

You can have Oderen > Croix > Chevrères > PdBF the day before.
 
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That is certainly possible. A modified version of a previous design of mine:

You can have Oderen > Croix > Chevrères > PdBF the day before.
I would like more something like Ballon d'Alsace ---> Hundsruck ----> Grand Ballon/ Markstein (via Geishouse) ---> Bannstein ----> Firstplan ----> Petit Ballon ----> Platzerwasel ----> Bramont ----> Grosse Pierre ----> Mausselaine
 
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Hmm, Vosgues to be at the end like in 2020? Or would they actually do a solid snake through France with Pyrenees - Massiv Central - Vosges - Alps?
In either case, I just wish they would do a monstrous mountain stage in the Vosges for once, as in +5000m elevation. Not these medium mountain stages or the typical nothing-> PdBF stage.
I really liked what they did with the women's Tour this year on stage 7, the Petit Ballon, Platzerwasel Combi is great.
What took them so long?
 
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They could also do Torino > Gap without any climbs after Montgenèvre.

I can't remember what stages were rumoured in Italy, but Larche is another doable early pass.

EDIT:
Thought the grand depart was going to be high mountains in the Appenines? Why not go straight to the northern Alps. 2020 already set the precedent for visiting mountain ranges twice with 2X Alps and Massif-Central
 
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Oct 14, 2021
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Not at all a prediction but more a wish list. For the 2023 Tour- do the Pyrenees early, the Thursday, Friday and Saturday before the rest day. Then do a 20 K individual time trial around Toulouse. Throw in another 20 K time trial a week later. Two ITTs, none of which fall at the end of the race, in-between the two major mountain chains. Plus I really want an excuse to see a Toulouse stage that isn't a sprint. Make it happen Christian Prudhomm. :)
 
Not at all a prediction but more a wish list. For the 2023 Tour- do the Pyrenees early, the Thursday, Friday and Saturday before the rest day. Then do a 20 K individual time trial around Toulouse. Throw in another 20 K time trial a week later. Two ITTs, none of which fall at the end of the race, in-between the two major mountain chains. Plus I really want an excuse to see a Toulouse stage that isn't a sprint. Make it happen Christian Prudhomm. :)
2 20km ITTs?

Better to eat rat poison than be subjected to that
 
Oct 14, 2021
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2 20km ITTs?

Better to eat rat poison than be subjected to that
Haha. Well I'd love two 30 K ITTs but I know that won't happen. Heck, let's do 2 40 K ITTs. I am sure the Remco fans would have something to say about that. Or, it'd be nice to do a Toulouse finish at the end of a very hilly/mountain stage. I imagine you could create a liege bastogne liege style stage that finishes in Toulouse. Unless I am missing something, the last few finishes there have all been sprints which seem like a waste given it's in a hilly range.
 
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Haha. Well I'd love two 30 K ITTs but I know that won't happen. Heck, let's do 2 40 K ITTs. I am sure the Remco fans would have something to say about that. Or, it'd be nice to do a Toulouse finish at the end of a very hilly/mountain stage. I imagine you could create a liege bastogne liege style stage that finishes in Toulouse. Unless I am missing something, the last few finishes there have all been sprints which seem like a waste given it's in a hilly range.
I'd prefer 2 55km ITTs like was the norm 20 years ago. Hell, I'd prefer a 75km ITT on the first weekend, with a 50 km ITT at the end of the race
 
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Haha. Well I'd love two 30 K ITTs but I know that won't happen. Heck, let's do 2 40 K ITTs. I am sure the Remco fans would have something to say about that. Or, it'd be nice to do a Toulouse finish at the end of a very hilly/mountain stage. I imagine you could create a liege bastogne liege style stage that finishes in Toulouse. Unless I am missing something, the last few finishes there have all been sprints which seem like a waste given it's in a hilly range.
Last year's Tour has two 30km TT's so it's not unrealistic. If anything the amount of ITT has gone up over the last few years, compared to 2015 or 2017 for example. Something like 2013 would be nice, a flat 30km ITT and a hilly/rolling 30km one in the last week.
In my opinion I think every TDF should have 100km of ITT as was the norm until 15 years ago. Just have well designed mountain stages to balance it out like the 2007 TDF
 
Last year's Tour has two 30km TT's so it's not unrealistic. If anything the amount of ITT has gone up over the last few years, compared to 2015 or 2017 for example. Something like 2013 would be nice, a flat 30km ITT and a hilly/rolling 30km one in the last week.
In my opinion I think every TDF should have 100km of ITT as was the norm until 15 years ago. Just have well designed mountain stages to balance it out like the 2007 TDF
Cyclings balance has changed. You almost never see the climber vs TTer split anymore. Dumoulin had the 2015 Vuelta and 2017 Giro, and maybe you can argue Contadors 2015 Giro was like that as well.

Maybe the fact that the Tour TT was stage 20 skews the results heavily, and maybe if it's a nice pan flat TT Thomas actually puts decent time into Vingegaard. But then Thomas wasn't evern competitve in the mountains anyway.
 
Cyclings balance has changed. You almost never see the climber vs TTer split anymore. Dumoulin had the 2015 Vuelta and 2017 Giro, and maybe you can argue Contadors 2015 Giro was like that as well.

Maybe the fact that the Tour TT was stage 20 skews the results heavily, and maybe if it's a nice pan flat TT Thomas actually puts decent time into Vingegaard. But then Thomas wasn't evern competitve in the mountains anyway.
Which is why there should be more ITT. An early 40 km TT would create gaps, but wouldn't decide the race between the best.
 
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If you think they only add gaps in the final GC, sure.
Where does it add to the racing? The only clear case is the 2020 Tour.

The only thing that's very clear is that very late TTs tend to paralyse the GC race more than they create action. I'm completely fine with putting the TT earlier and making it generally more in the range of 45km instead of 30km.

2 long TTs is outdated and it only "works" if we also go assume that magically mountain stages get much better designs.
 
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Very long and multiple TTs being a good idea is a fantasy, unfortunately shared by many prominent posters. Yes, there is a theoretical way where in a specific scenario of the best TTer among the GC riders riding for a poor team it could maybe work.

But there is just as big a chance that it would just settle the race then and there. Like it always happened in the Tour in the Induráin and Armstrong eras as well as in 2012.
 
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