2023 Tour de France route rumors

[Fyr3]

I think Tougnete followed Col de la Loze would actually work quite well. Of course there are scenarios in which it wouldn't but that is true of any stage realistically, even something like San Pellegrino / Abetone there's a scenario in which it ends with a GC sprint. If a Tougnete / Loze combo were to be placed in the last week of the tour I dare say the gaps would be bigger on Granon, you don't have the time to recover between climbs like you have after the Galibier. The only issue I can see is ASO would not descend Tougnete if the east side is as steep as shown in the profile, iirc it's a prolonged section at gradients of 15% ish which isn't really compatible especially if it were technical and narrow. Also on le grupetto it has been mentioned that meribel is reluctant to finalize the eastern side anyway, so it could be a while before we can dream of seeing Loze / Tougnete in a stage together.

I think on ASO' list of climbs to visit in the near future will be something like:
Plateau de Solaison - twice on dauphine rumoured for 2024
Puy de Dome - optimistic but ideas for inclusion in 2024
Puy Mary - I think this will be brought back quickly maybe even for 2023. Same potentially with Col de la Loze
Bonette - with nice seeming likely to host the finish in 2024 I can't see the Bonette being missed, unless they really just gave up on southern Alps
Iraty / Parquetout - steep climbs both ~ 6-7km with plenty over 10-12%, iraty is compatible as a stage finish although I'm not sure if they can do it logistically while Parquetout could easily be introduced before a finish in La Mure.

If we do get Tougnete followed by Loze I very easily see a scenario where early attacks for minor places fly on the first climb while those battling for the win mark each other until the Loze.

 

[pman]

One thing I wonder, I am sure Pogacar would like it, is will they ever experiment with dramatically moving up the start times of key decisive stages to avoid the heat? Not to get political but the reality is that we're only going to get more summers like the one we're in the middle of. It just seems for the sake of riders safety that the start times should be managed to avoid as much of the heat as possible. A race that ends at 1 PM is about 6 degrees cooler than one that races later in the day, not to mention dramatically cooler throughout the race.

I know it won't work with TV, many in France are on holiday anyway during the race.

It's not realistic and won't happen but if it did A) it would be safer for the riders and B) it would lead to better racing.

Just a out of the box thing I'd love to see for next year if I ran cycling, haha.

 

[Netserk]

Already in this thread, somebody suggested a stage crossing the Izoard with an uphill finish in Briancon. The most recent visits to Briancon have not used the uphill finish so it would be nice to see it again. In 1989 Fignon lost 13 seconds to Lemond on the short climb to the finish which eventually cost him the overall win in GC. Taking the overnight trains between Paris and Briancon would make it a 36-hour round trip so it would be a bit more gruelling than a Lausanne day trip.

Most recent Tour de France finish was in 2007 and had the usual uphill finish to Champ de Mars. Likewise in 2000.

It's only the 2005 finish that has been flat, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Ulle97]

Most recent Tour de France finish was in 2007 and had the usual uphill finish to Champ de Mars. Likewise in 2000.

It's only the 2005 finish that has been flat, as far as I'm aware.

Yes the 2005 finish in Briancon had all the favourites finishing on the same time. IIRC, Vinokourov attacked on the early climbs and got a 1minute advantage over the field.
The uphill finish that they used in 2000 and 2007 created some small time gaps.

This Tougnete climb that everyone is talking about seems to be a real monster.
It would be great to see one stage in the Tour where they include two or three monster climbs. Would it be possible to put the Bonnette, Iseran, Agnello into the one stage??

 

[ashhutch1997]

Yes the 2005 finish in Briancon had all the favourites finishing on the same time. IIRC, Vinokourov attacked on the early climbs and got a 1minute advantage over the field.
The uphill finish that they used in 2000 and 2007 created some small time gaps.

This Tougnete climb that everyone is talking about seems to be a real monster.
It would be great to see one stage in the Tour where they include two or three monster climbs. Would it be possible to put the Bonnette, Iseran, Agnello into the one stage??

The only way that would be possible would be if Angelo Zomegnan took over ASO

 

[OlavEH]

Would it be possible to put the Bonnette, Iseran, Agnello into the one stage??

Not without making the stage over 400 km.

Bonette and Agnello in the same stage would be possible. And more plausible would be Iseran and Galibier.

 

[Ulle97]

In 2008 they did the Lombarde and Bonnette in the one stage. Two massive climbs but there was limited GC damage.
All down to the way it was raced I suppose.

 

[Fyr3]

Iseran can be quite easily combined with galibier, I made a stage La Mure > Val d'Isere and another one from Bourg St Maurice > Col du Granon which is insanity tbh. Definitely not all 3 can be combined in one stage though.

 

[railxmig]

I have absolutely 0 idea why the talk about Tougnete as an actual pass. Even if both sides will be surfaced at best it'll be a Loze twin. I believe there's a stronger posibility of using Loze as an actual pass rather than just a MTF. The Tour needs to get rid of most of it's "press and misc" junk to even dream of doing such stuff. It'll most likely end up as a copy of the 2020 stage but on the last day.

With Irati there were apparently some connection issues and it's most probable that next year there won't be any Basque Pyrenees as the race will dodge the via Bayonne and Mont-de-Marsan.

For 2024 there are some rumours of a grand finale in Nice to not interfere with the Paris olympics.

EDIT: @Red Rick don't be sad. You can start dreaming of a 2020 Turini stage as the parade stage in 2024. It has (slightly) more chances than a Tougnete-Loze (or backwards) stage next year.

 

[Ricco']

EDIT: @Red Rick don't be sad. You can start dreaming of a 2020 Turini stage as the parade stage in 2024. It has (slightly) more chances than a Tougnete-Loze (or backwards) stage next year.

Champagne and photos over the unofficial neutralized race over the Colmiane and Turini before the racing starts with the Promenade des Anglais criterium.

 

[railxmig]

Champagne and photos over the unofficial neutralized race over the Colmiane and Turini before the racing starts with the Promenade des Anglais criterium.

Come on mr. Cobra... where's your mr. Cobra spirit? In all seriousness if that happened then i would personally find myself the nearest supersonic missile for target practice. And i believe i would be better at it than the current owners of such weaponry.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

Bonette and Agnello in the same stage would be possible.

That could something be like this:



The big problem with the Tour: They do not often go to Italy, which is key to use the Agnello. If the Tour uses the Agnello, the peleton has to end or start (mostly both) a stage in Italy.

 

[OlavEH]

That could something be like this:

Yep. But if they are using Bonette, I would rather like a monster Southern Alps stage with Allos, Champs, Cayolle, Bonette and then a finish at Auron. Would be an excellent penultimate stage if they are finishing in Nice in 2024.

 

[pman]

So what's everyone's bet on the general direction of the 2023 Tour? Do we stay in the Southern half of the country? Or do we do the Pyrenees and then head north through maybe Normandy before the Alps? What's odd is I think we all feel like we know the general direction of the 2024 Tour, that surely will stay in the Southern half of the country (and probably be a brutal, unrelenting Tour). But 2023 is more of a mystery. Well we should start getting legit rumors any week now.

1. I think we can bet on the Pyrenees being before the first rest day.
2. I think we can bet on finishing in the Alps for the first time in 3 years.
3. I even think we can bet on a mid Tour ITT

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

I hope they start trying to place mountain stages on weekends. So ideally for me, after the peloton entered France the go a bit north, before going back south to ride the Pyrenees from stage 7 to 9.

But nevertheless, the more they do between crossing the border and the pyrenees mountains, the less the ASO can build between the Pyrenees and the Alps, and vice versa. Rumours or mostly guesses here are, that the alps are ridden south to north, and also the final mountain stage could be in the Jura including the Grand Colombier or the Col de la Biche.

 

[pman]

You know ChiefMasterPro, I was pretty surprised by the relative lack of big mountain stages during the weekend. When I saw the rumors last year I thought the timing had to be off because I thought there had to be more action on the weekends. But I was wrong! I guess a lot of the country is on holiday during July so weekend stages are less important for TV. However, usually there are usually at least 1 big stage per weekend. This year it was a bust weekend wise. We'll see for 23.

 

[OlavEH]

So what's everyone's bet on the general direction of the 2023 Tour? Do we stay in the Southern half of the country? Or do we do the Pyrenees and then head north through maybe Normandy before the Alps? What's odd is I think we all feel like we know the general direction of the 2024 Tour, that surely will stay in the Southern half of the country (and probably be a brutal, unrelenting Tour). But 2023 is more of a mystery. Well we should start getting legit rumors any week now.

1. I think we can bet on the Pyrenees being before the first rest day.
2. I think we can bet on finishing in the Alps for the first time in 3 years.
3. I even think we can bet on a mid Tour ITT

Impossible to guess. It could be a short clockwise loop before entering the Pyrenees on the second weekend. It could a much longer loop before entering Pyrenees on the third weekend. Og they could even do the Alps first and Pyrenees the last week. I hope for the first option, that the Pyrenees are limited to two stages and that they have some real solid medium mountain stages in the second week between the Pyrenees and the Alps.

 

[houtdffan]

I hope they start trying to place mountain stages on weekends. So ideally for me, after the peloton entered France the go a bit north, before going back south to ride the Pyrenees from stage 7 to 9.

But nevertheless, the more they do between crossing the border and the pyrenees mountains, the less the ASO can build between the Pyrenees and the Alps, and vice versa. Rumours or mostly guesses here are, that the alps are ridden south to north, and also the final mountain stage could be in the Jura including the Grand Colombier or the Col de la Biche.

There were two mountain stages on weekends this year. The first Alpine stage and the Mende stage

 

[pman]

We could argue about the Mende stage being a mountain stage. The Tour listed the Mende stage as a hill stage. The Chatel les Portes du Soleil stage was defintely a mountain stage though it always felt like the soup before the main course coming on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday (the three meaty mountain stages).

Of course, I thought the Lausanne stage was very entertaining and it was on a Saturday. It doesn't have to be a mountain stage to be entertaining. So I understand both sides. Certainty the North American audiences appreciate mountain stages on the weekend. You can watch a recording and fast forward through most stages after work. You can probably condense most Tour stages into an hour. However, you can't beat watching 3 hours of a mountain stages. That really requires a weekend, unless you have July off work .

I bet CP isn't too concerned about the North American TV market though.

 

[Mayomaniac]

That could something be like this:



The big problem with the Tour: They do not often go to Italy, which is key to use the Agnello. If the Tour uses the Agnello, the peleton has to end or start (mostly both) a stage in Italy.

If the 2024 Tour really starts in Italy and the stage that brings them back to France also starts in Pinerolo (like la Gazzetta leaked) then give me Pinerolo - Briancon with Agnello, Izoard and and uphill finish in the old town.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

If the 2024 Tour really starts in Italy and the stage that brings them back to France also starts in Pinerolo (like la Gazzetta leaked) then give me Pinerolo - Briancon with Agnello, Izoard and and uphill finish in the old town.

2024 might seem very far away, but I have questioned a bit, how the Tour will ride from the Grand Depart, which is rumoured to take place in the Tuscany, towards France. The question is, do they ride towards france, which could see the Alps very early, and Nice is reached via the coast, or do the fly/drive to somewhere in France and the Alps are taken late north to south?

 

[Ricco']

2024 might seem very far away, but I have questioned a bit, how the Tour will ride from the Grand Depart, which is rumoured to take place in the Tuscany, towards France. The question is, do they ride towards france, which could see the Alps very early, and Nice is reached via the coast, or do the fly/drive to somewhere in France and the Alps are taken late north to south?

Can't they go through Switzerland (Lausanne, Fribourg, Bern or Basel) and enter France through Besançon/the Vosges before going through the heart of France towards the Pyrenees to finish in the Alps?

 

[pman]

It's odd in that I feel like we know more about 2024 than 2023 and most people are for more excited for 24 than 23. The 24 Tour does sound epic.

 

[pman]

Can't they go through Switzerland (Lausanne, Fribourg, Bern or Basel) and enter France through Besançon/the Vosges before going through the heart of France towards the Pyrenees to finish in the Alps?

Now that would be an epic Tour and one I'd want to see in person. It would also be a pretty relentless Tour in terms of mountains and climbing. I am just not sure if the timing works---at least not with some lengthy transfers. What 3 stages in Italy that work up north to the Swiss border, A stage or two in Switzerland? That's 5 stages. How quickly could they go from the Swiss border to the Pyrenees? Then they'd they have to work their way back to the Alps.

I'll tell you this much, if we're playing a fantasy create your own Tour route, that route if feasible would be pretty much on the top of most people lists. Three Italian stages including maybe an il lombardia stage, a stage or two through the Swiss mountains, straight into the Vosges, the Pyrenees, back through the beautiful south and then the Alps and finish with a hill stage in Nice. Yeah, that's pretty much everyone's dream Tour unless you're a sprinter.

 

[sir fly]

2024 might seem very far away, but I have questioned a bit, how the Tour will ride from the Grand Depart, which is rumoured to take place in the Tuscany, towards France. The question is, do they ride towards france, which could see the Alps very early, and Nice is reached via the coast, or do the fly/drive to somewhere in France and the Alps are taken late north to south?

I'd say they'll take the coastal route (MSR homage), but avoid Nice since the race is ought to finish there anyway (maybe even with Èze tt), making neighbouring Maritime Alps a natural pathway towards the climax.