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Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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GuntherL

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It's about time we address Pogacars remarkable rise since he joined UAE in 2019.

His first season as a junior wasn't anything special, but we have to remember that he was born later in year (September) which is a disadvantage at that age.
In his second season he definitely proved his talent by winning the Giro della Lunigiana.
However, in the entire season he only won two stages and never put any distance on his competitors.
His time trial abilities were less impressive. A 25th and 68th spot.

His first season as a U23 rider wasn't too great either.
He won a few youth jerseys, but didn't record a single stage win.

His second season was definitely better, but still hit and miss.
He won the Tour de l'Avenir, but didn't record a stage win.
He also finished 7th at the WC road race.
Promising, but not exceptional.

Then he moved to UAE. Its CEO is Mauro Gianetti, possibly the dirtiest rider and sports director in history.
Suddenly he started to win stage races (Algarve, California, and individual mountain stages in the Vuelta against the likes of Valverde and Roglic.
He also became a much better time trialist beating Mohoric and Tratnik in the Slovenian championship.

Give me a break.
 
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Ricco'

Ricco'

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Well, I don't know what are your standards but if a rider who finishes 5th in a 2.1 race as the Tour of Slovenia (with some decent names like Majka, Haig, Polanc, Cunego, Visconti, etc. riding) in their first U23 year and has a consistent year with 21 top-10 has, in your opinion, a season that "wasn't too great either", well you can only be satisfied with someone like Evenepoel.

I don't want to comment about his rise as I don't have any negative opinion of it, but since I first saw results of Pogacar as a junior I always considered him a pretty big prospect for the future and had his name under my radar since at least 2016.
 
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GuntherL

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Gianetti's heritage:
As a rider he nearly died in 1998 because he experimented with PFC.

His main achievements as a manager:
2007: Mayo: EPO
2008: Ricco and Piepoli: Cera
2009: Fernandez de la Puebla: EPO
2011: Cobo (abnormal values in biological passport)

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/blog-gianetti-is-ingrained-with-doping/

Why are Armstrong and Bruyneel banned from the sport while this guy can still be general manager of a cycling team?
 
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DFA123

DFA123

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I think it's a bit harsh calling his 2017-18 as hit and miss. He won the biggest junior race in the world, while riding for a very small team. Of course his TTing and general level is going to take a big step up when he leaves a CT to join a World Tour team with much better coaching, facilities and equipment.
 
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GuntherL

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BlueRoads said:
I have my own doubts (as posted in the Doping in Austria-thread). But I have to ask, Gunther, are you not a big Evenepoel-fan? Or am I mixing you up? 'Cause if it's just that you don't want any other young rider to take Remco's spotlight...
Click to expand...
I admire Evenepoel, but I don't have a problem with fair competition. I don't like cheating though. When I look at Evenepoel or MvdP, I see consistency from their junior days until today. I can accept Roglic superiority in 2019, Rohan Dennis' domination in the WC time trials, because I don't see anything wrong with it.

I can't accept the dirtiest manager in cycling screwing the sport up again and it's unacceptable to me that people like Gianetti are welcomed back. The strongest cheating indicator are the climbing times and we should be alarmed when a 21 year old weighing 66 kg blows away the best climbers in the world on a 4 km stretch.
This is not normal:
http://www.climbing-records.com/2020/09/tadej-pogacar-crushes-peyresourde-record.html
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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GuntherL said:
Gianetti's heritage:
As a rider he nearly died in 1998 because he experimented with PFC.

His main achievements as a manager:
2007: Mayo: EPO
2008: Ricco and Piepoli: Cera
2009: Fernandez de la Puebla: EPO
2011: Cobo (abnormal values in biological passport)

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/blog-gianetti-is-ingrained-with-doping/

Why are Armstrong and Bruyneel banned from the sport while this guy can still be general manager of a cycling team?
Click to expand...
Honestly this is where the real money is and people focus way too much on riders and tests themselves.
 
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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SafeBet said:
If destroying Mayo (!) and Vinokourov (!!) time on Peyresourde is not suspicious then I don't know what is.
Look I love Pogi and hope he wins the Tour, but that time and those watts are suspicious by default.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but Landa, Porte, Quintana and Roglic were also faster than Mayo & Vino. Which means there might have been other factors at play, maybe wind or something.
 
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Ripper

Ripper

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Please do away with the post-voting Q&A setting.

I quite like Pogacar, have not seen anything i would label as suspicious, other than the fact he indeed did not have a clinic thread yet, unlike Evenepoel, because he's apparently more likable. It shows the hypocrisy of the clinic dwellers, who supposedly only have only the best interest of the sport at heart. Ahaha.
Click to expand...
Umm, today on the Peyresourde would be a bit conspicuous. And Gianetti is likely the bigger issue. That makes Bjarne look like kool aide.

Anywho, to each their own.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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Well, i did make that comment before knowing he broke the record of Vino/Mayo. But, it appears that indeed the wind was very advantageous today, and we're only first week still. I can imagine they would do the same climb noticeably slower in week 3.

My main issue is, that i believe that the number of people in the clinic threads who actually know what they are talking about, is negligible. I certainly do not count myself as one of them, but i can easily tell people are quick to draw conclusions, when it concerns a rider they don't like. This entire subforum is riddled with hypocrisy. Pointing fingers at one rider, but not another, all for the sake of a clean sport. Right. This irks me to no end and i've tried to ignore the clinic many times in the past, but once every few months something draws my attention, and it's usually the same crap. But maybe tomorrow we'll be able to post a funny tweet by Vayer to make it all worthwhile.
 
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samhocking

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They didn't do the 11km route today, they did
GuntherL said:
I admire Evenepoel, but I don't have a problem with fair competition. I don't like cheating though. When I look at Evenepoel or MvdP, I see consistency from their junior days until today. I can accept Roglic superiority in 2019, Rohan Dennis' domination in the WC time trials, because I don't see anything wrong with it.

I can't accept the dirtiest manager in cycling screwing the sport up again and it's unacceptable to me that people like Gianetti are welcomed back. The strongest cheating indicator are the climbing times and we should be alarmed when a 21 year old weighing 66 kg blows away the best climbers in the world on a 4 km stretch.
This is not normal:
http://www.climbing-records.com/2020/09/tadej-pogacar-crushes-peyresourde-record.html
Click to expand...
I'd take the climbing records times with a pinch of salt. They approached it differently this year. This year the total climbing distance was certainly not the 11.7km claimed there, it was only 9.6km. When Vino did it in 2003 it was 13km. Even if that's all just typos and they timed from the same ending km on the climb, the riders have already climbed different distances before the timer started anyway.
 
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GuntherL

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samhocking said:
They didn't do the 11km route today, they did

I'd take the climbing records times with a pinch of salt. They approached it differently this year. This year the total climbing distance was certainly not the 11.7km claimed there, it was only 9.6km. When Vino did it in 2003 it was 13km. Even if that's all just typos and they timed from the same ending km on the climb, the riders have already climbed different distances before the timer started anyway.
Click to expand...
Wrong.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1302285125418393603
View: https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/1302285125418393603

Confirmed by Lanterne Rouge.
https://www.strava.com/segments/25598682
 
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GuntherL

Jul 16, 2011
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Well, i did make that comment before knowing he broke the record of Vino/Mayo. But, it appears that indeed the wind was very advantageous today, and we're only first week still. I can imagine they would do the same climb noticeably slower in week 3.

My main issue is, that i believe that the number of people in the clinic threads who actually know what they are talking about, is negligible. I certainly do not count myself as one of them, but i can easily tell people are quick to draw conclusions, when it concerns a rider they don't like. This entire subforum is riddled with hypocrisy. Pointing fingers at one rider, but not another, all for the sake of a clean sport. Right. This irks me to no end and i've tried to ignore the clinic many times in the past, but once every few months something draws my attention, and it's usually the same crap. But maybe tomorrow we'll be able to post a funny tweet by Vayer to make it all worthwhile.
Click to expand...
"quick to draw conclusions, when it concerns a rider they don't like"
I had my suspicions about Pogacar since last year's Vuelta and it's not a matter of liking or disliking.
I just hate cheating. I'm still furious that Gilbert got away with his 'miracle year' 2011, Horner won the Vuelta at age 41 win or Indurain never got caught.

I've read all kinds of hilarious excuses to explain yesterday's climb. The wind is one of them. Apparently, only Pogacar benefited from it, because everyone else lost at least 45 seconds in the final 4 km.
Another great one: the other riders didn't want to follow Pogacar. Yeah, right. That's why Roglic jumped on his wheel twice before being left behind.
Multiple accelerations on a long climb are a red flag. They're from a different era.
If you see other inconsistencies in today's peloton, point them out.
 
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