Active censorship attempt at Wikipedia

[Ninety5rpm]

First the fanboyz managed to get most of the doping material out of the Lance Armstrong article and into a separate article.

Now there is an attempt to delete that article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...of_doping_allegations_against_Lance_Armstrong

 

[buckwheat]

First the fanboyz managed to get most of the doping material out of the Lance Armstrong article and into a separate article.

Now there is an attempt to delete that article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...of_doping_allegations_against_Lance_Armstrong

How they gonna get around the conviction and prison stay?

The trial will be in Northern CA? What Federal Pen is around there? Lompoc? Is that where he'll be?

 

[JRTinMA]

Who cares, if its not in Wiki it doesn't change the past. I can't imagine a single person ever going to Wiki to form an opinion. Its for old race results and who played Mina in the last Dracula movie.

 

[Mr.DNA]

How they gonna get around the conviction and prison stay?

The trial will be in Northern CA? What Federal Pen is around there? Lompoc? Is that where he'll be?

Pelican Bay SUPER MAX!

 

[BroDeal]

Wikipedia is being used to whitewash a lot of riders' doping history. Check out this classic from the Scott Moninger page:

"He was suspended for one year due to contaminated supplements which contained the banned substance - 19-norandrosterone. These supplements were bought off the shelf of the local Boulder, Colorado supplement store. It was later proven by lab results from the same batch of supplements that the banned substance was not labeled on the product container. Although Moninger was suspended, he is considered to be a clean rider by his peers."

The paragraph references three misinformed "sources" but curiously does not reference the actual arbitration judgement, which is available as a PDF online, that clearly shows that Moninger's tainted supplements defense was at the very least not supported by the facts and at worst (and most likely) was a fraud that he tried to perpetrate on the USADA.

I think we should make an effort to get the facts right all over Wikipedia. Have Leipheimer's doping apologists removed the doping information from his page yet?

 

[Polish]

ssdd©

ssdday

ssdmonth

ssdyear

ssddecade

ssdcentury

Lance is an awesome poopoo head.

 

[luckyboy]

About wiki, anyone else get some weird thing when they look at some Belgian/Dutch riders?
Like this..

Found this problem when I was looking for a guy who quit cycling in the 90s because of other guys taking EPO.

 

[ergmonkey]

Wikipedia is being used to whitewash a lot of riders' doping history. Check out this classic from the Scott Moninger page:

"He was suspended for one year due to contaminated supplements which contained the banned substance - 19-norandrosterone. These supplements were bought off the shelf of the local Boulder, Colorado supplement store. It was later proven by lab results from the same batch of supplements that the banned substance was not labeled on the product container. Although Moninger was suspended, he is considered to be a clean rider by his peers."

The paragraph references three misinformed "sources" but curiously does not reference the actual abritration judgement, which is available as a PDF online, that clearly shows that Moninger's tainted supplements defense was at the very least not supported by the facts and at worst (and most likely) was a fraud that he tried to perpetrate on the USADA.

I think we should make an effort to get the facts right all over Wikipedia. Have Leipheimer's doping apologists removed the doping information from his page yet?

Good Call.

I really wish there were harsh penalties somehow for raising elaborate defenses in bad faith.

 

[JRTinMA]

Good Call.

I really wish there were harsh penalties somehow for raising elaborate defenses in bad faith.

There is, Landis was ordered to pay 100k to USADA.

 

[pedaling squares]

I agree with some of the wiki guy's comments, disagree with others.

And 24K of info on unproved allegations does not provide a well-balanced perspective on someone's life.

Didn't like this. The unproven allegations are the whole point of the spinoff. A spinoff is not intended to be a balanced look at one's whole life, just a look at one aspect of it.

The article has "Although .... has never been found guilty" in the first line. Which is a pretty good reason not to have this fork.

That isn't a good reason not to have the spinoff. There have been numerous articles and books written about this exact topic. A lack of a guilty verdict does not mean that something notable has not occurred. I'm sure there would be plenty of wiki coverage if we had another Whitewater scandal, long before any determination of guilt was made.

Does this article comply with: "written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives, and the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment." Not in my view.

Every one of those allegations has been widely published and exists in the public domain. Wiki has an over-inflated opinion of itself if it thinks its article will be the primary vehicle to spread information about Armstrong's life.

 

[Anonymous]

Multiple tweets just gone out as part of a twitter invasion. Completely ridiculous, as all of the editors will be biased one way or the other.

 

[Anonymous]

Have Leipheimer's doping apologists removed the doping information from his page yet?

Nope, and they wont, its been accepted by multiple admin now. I spent one hell of a lot of time, along with Joepa and members of this forum getting the wording just right. Even got admin approval on the acceptance that Ephreda is still banned recently.

 

[BroDeal]

Good Call.

I really wish there were harsh penalties somehow for raising elaborate defenses in bad faith.

The funny thing about the Moninger page is that the three references that supposedly prove the paragraph break down like this:

The first was written before the case was resolved and consists mostly of riders and others in the pro racing scene saying they believe in or have faith in Moninger.

The second consists mostly of information from Moninger himself and people from his former team.

The third is an article about supplement contamination with no specific information about Moninger 's case.

None of the references prove the misleading paragraph.

This injustice will not stand.

 

[buckwheat]

Pelican Bay SUPER MAX!

I know you're joking as I was, (semi anyway) but I think Pelican Bay is a state prison.

At any rate, (not that I think Armstrong is dangerous physically) if there is anyone that needs isolation, it would be Armstrong.

The guy really is the definition of a sociopath.

 

[Escarabajo]

Nope, and they wont, its been accepted by multiple admin now. I spent one hell of a lot of time, along with Joepa and members of this forum getting the wording just right. Even got admin approval on the acceptance that Ephreda is still banned recently.

Well done.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Wikipedia is being used to whitewash a lot of riders' doping history. Check out this classic from the Scott Moninger page:

"He was suspended for one year due to contaminated supplements which contained the banned substance - 19-norandrosterone. These supplements were bought off the shelf of the local Boulder, Colorado supplement store. It was later proven by lab results from the same batch of supplements that the banned substance was not labeled on the product container. Although Moninger was suspended, he is considered to be a clean rider by his peers."

The paragraph references three misinformed "sources" but curiously does not reference the actual arbitration judgement, which is available as a PDF online, that clearly shows that Moninger's tainted supplements defense was at the very least not supported by the facts and at worst (and most likely) was a fraud that he tried to perpetrate on the USADA.

To the contrary, the arbitration ruling does in fact support Moninger's defense that his supplements did contain elements with steroidal properties (according to the USADA lab, that also tested it). It is also widely known that supplements are widely contaminated with anabolic agents and the fact that Nandrolone was found is key.

Are you saying Amber Neben and Brooke Blackwelder were taking 19-norandrosterone as well? One look at waify Neben should tell you if she uses steroids, she somehow has been able to avoid any of the obvious side effects that known juicers such as Tammy Thomas showed.

And Moninger also sued the supplement manufacturer and retailer (Vitamin Cottage) I believe, who settled the case.

The difference between Moninger and Clentador is Clentador will never bring in a piece of meat to the arbitration hearing because he knows the contaminated meat story is total BS.

 

[flicker]

wow, the six months I have been a cycling fan and have discovered the computer and a thing called the internet, I cannot derive all my cycling and general information from Wiki. I have been deceived, thanks for sharing guys, signed the clueless one flicker

 

[pedaling squares]

wow, the six months I have been a cycling fan and have discovered the computer and a thing called the internet, I cannot derive all my cycling and general information from Wiki. I have been deceived, thanks for sharing guys, signed the clueless one flicker

Hey flikkuh, looks like we finally agree on something!

 

[flicker]

sorry I lied, my 11 year old son told me 3 weeks ago that wiki was full of BS. I guess my son has been reading Joe Papp again!

 

[BroDeal]

To the contrary, the arbitration ruling does in fact support Moninger's defense that his supplements did contain elements with steroidal properties (according to the USADA lab, that also tested it). It is also widely known that supplements are widely contaminated with anabolic agents and the fact that Nandrolone was found is key.

No it does not. The lab that Moninger hired found what he wanted them to find. The independent lab at UCLA did not find the same thing. It found nothing in the unopened bottles of supplements. In the opened bottle it found unidentified substances with anabolic properties, which would not have caused the positive. On closer examination the unidentified substances were found to be metabolites of nandrolone not nandrolone itself. What is more this "contamination" was at a level that far exceeded any other known case of contamination. In fact, from another source, the "contamination" was 600 times greater than the most contaminated supplement found in a wide rangiing IOC study of supplement contamination that was conducted with hundreds if not thousands (I forget the exact number) of supplements from around the world.

The implication of the arbitration ruling is clear: Moninger doctored his opened bottle of supplements. He was not smart enough to use the parent substance of the metabolites that he tested positive for. Instead he used the metabolites themselves, probably from urine. He also used way too much metabolites, so much so that the sheer amount was a red flag.

The arbitration panel rejected his tainted supplements defense, but Moninger and his supporters have been misleading the public ever since.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

About wiki, anyone else get some weird thing when they look at some Belgian/Dutch riders?
Like this..

Found this problem when I was looking for a guy who quit cycling in the 90s because of other guys taking EPO.

There is a prolific Wikipedia editor who added and modified thousands of articles about athletes for years. A few weeks ago it was discovered that at least some of his "work" was blatant plagiarism (you can't just copy/paste published work without attribution in Wikipedia - doing so is a copyright violation).

Due to the sheer volume the effort to review all his edits and determine if it's plagiarism or properly sourced material is an enormous project. In the mean time they've "blanked out" all questionable articles with the notice that you see. If you click on the history tab or link you should be able to find an older version that was not blanked out.

 

[ak-zaaf]

oh lol......

# Delete. This is just another way for people to mess with Texas. I really like Texas. In fact I am in love with him. Lance Armstrong has done more for cycling than the entire eastern bloc nations. This witchhunt has to stop somewhere. These are only allegations not proven facts like my superior power calculations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PythonRH (talk • contribs) 17:11, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

 

[magoo34]

There is a minimum security Federal joint in Dublin, CA. (East Bay)

 

[Straßenrennen]

The wiki article also makes kimmage look like a psychopath with a bad grudge.

 

[leftover pie]

Lompoc? Is that where he'll be?

interestingly enough Lompoc is famous for being the home of Roger Ramjet, the All American hero who, despite his lack of brains, was able to protect the world from various dangers and criminal masterminds all thanks to his special Proton Energy Pills, which gave him the "strength of 20 atom bombs for the period of 20 seconds"