AIUla Tour - 29th of january to 3rd of february

[Armchair Cyclist]

*All

But it's never used.

José Angel Gomez Marchante say hello (or hola)

 

[Samamba]

So he had a frame, just no wheels. Yeah, much better. And he wasn't the only one in the devo team that didn't get equipment, but he was (together with Van Eetvelt) the only one who could finish a high profile GC in the top 5.

It was a *** move, regardless.

He had his trainingwheels, ofcourse he had wheels lmao. Like I said, it was still petty cause indeed he had a good opportunity to show something there but devo or junior teams stopping to support someone cause they signed with another teams happens all the time, it just doesn't make the news.

And It's not like Lecerf (or more his entourage) was blame free, they lied to Lotto (Van de Wouwer in particular) about his talks with QS. He is the first rider ever who stepped on Van de Wouwers toes like that and the first rider every who got that treatment while he definitely was not the first rider to leave the team before going pro.

Also when a guy gets booted of a team 2 times in like 13 months time it probably isn't just the teams fault.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

*All

But it's never used.

I would say "rarely" rather than "never". It is used infrequently, usually where the paternal surname is super common. In addition to José Ángel Gómez Marchante as previously mentioned, there are examples like David García da Pena or José António López Gil who were always named in full.

An odd exception is Gustavo César Veloso. When he raced for Xacobeo-Galicía and Andalucía-Caja Granada - including his Volta a Catalunya win and his Vuelta stage win - he was always known as Gustavo César, but when he moved to Portugal and raced over there, his name was always read as though it was Portuguese where the maternal and paternal names are flipped compared to Spanish, and he was always either referred to by his full name or as Gustavo Veloso.

 

[tobydawq]

José Angel Gomez Marchante say hello (or hola)

I would say "rarely" rather than "never". It is used infrequently, usually where the paternal surname is super common. In addition to José Ángel Gómez Marchante as previously mentioned, there are examples like David García da Pena or José António López Gil who were always named in full.

An odd exception is Gustavo César Veloso. When he raced for Xacobeo-Galicía and Andalucía-Caja Granada - including his Volta a Catalunya win and his Vuelta stage win - he was always known as Gustavo César, but when he moved to Portugal and raced over there, his name was always read as though it was Portuguese where the maternal and paternal names are flipped compared to Spanish, and he was always either referred to by his full name or as Gustavo Veloso.

Yeah, fair enough. We can add José Vicente García Acosta and Iván García Cortina to the list.

Curiously, Igor and Álvaro González de Galdeano are not on the list, however, as González de Galdeano was the paternal surname only, and they also had Aranzabal from their mother.

In tennis, it seems like it's used more frequently with Roberto Bautista Agut and Pablo Carreño Busta as just two examples but I always thought it was just the ignorance of an Anglo Saxon dominated world that was responsible for that.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I would say "rarely" rather than "never". It is used infrequently, usually where the paternal surname is super common. In addition to José Ángel Gómez Marchante as previously mentioned, there are examples like David García da Pena or José António López Gil who were always named in full.

An odd exception is Gustavo César Veloso. When he raced for Xacobeo-Galicía and Andalucía-Caja Granada - including his Volta a Catalunya win and his Vuelta stage win - he was always known as Gustavo César, but when he moved to Portugal and raced over there, his name was always read as though it was Portuguese where the maternal and paternal names are flipped compared to Spanish, and he was always either referred to by his full name or as Gustavo Veloso.

Yeah, fair enough. We can add José Vicente García Acosta and Iván García Cortina to the list.

Curiously, Igor and Álvaro González de Galdeano are not on the list, however, as González de Galdeano was the paternal surname only, and they also had Aranzabal from their mother.

In tennis, it seems like it's used more frequently with Roberto Bautista Agut and Pablo Carreño Busta as just two examples but I always thought it was just the ignorance of an Anglo Saxon dominated world that was responsible for that.

I suppose it's not surprising that one country imposes its cultural assumptions on others: it happens in far more baleful* ways than applying shortened versions of names.
The football club that carries the burden of my hopes (to the very small extent that I still follow the game) has just signed a Colombian called Jorge Cabezas Hurtado, and the club site, yet alone social media and chat among fans, has all been about 'the new boy Hurtado'. More surprising that there is not more awareness of Spanish culture in Portugal in the César Veloso situation (maybe he just liked being called speedy).

But was there ever an explanation as to the name change of Sebastian Henao? He came onto the scene as Henao Marin, and was soon changed to Henao Gómez. Clerical error (maybe his father was Henao Marin and some angophone copied that onto a form as Sebastian's surname), or some family scandal involving the late emergence of the true identity of his maternal grandfather?



*: I knew I'd get a chance to do it soon.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah, fair enough. We can add José Vicente García Acosta and Iván García Cortina to the list.

Curiously, Igor and Álvaro González de Galdeano are not on the list, however, as González de Galdeano was the paternal surname only, and they also had Aranzabal from their mother.

Yes, this is also a not-uncommon thing with super common surnames, especially in the Basque-Navarrese area where there are a lot of composite surnames. These usually take the form of a locative or descriptor, so things like "González de Galdeano" fall into that area. Often these are like "Fernández from [family house or village]" but as Basque surnames were usually taken from the descriptions of the family house or where a family was from, these can create confusion. Other examples from the world of cycling:

As a paternal surname:
Andoni López de Abetxuco Jiménez
Alberto Fernández de la Puebla Ramos
Vicente García de Mateos Rubio

As a maternal surname:
Pello Bilbao López de Armentia
Íñigo Cuesta López de Castro

As double composite:
Alberto López de Muniain Ruíz de Gauna

As a (comparatively rare) hyphenated compound (which also follows the same rules as the locatives):
Juan António López-Cozar Jaimez
Eduardo Pérez-Landaluce González

An unusual exception is Koldo Fernández de Larrea Pérez, where Fernández de Larrea is a compound surname, but he would almost always be known solely as Koldo Fernández - however people would usually use his uncommon, Basque forename to differentiate him, always saying "Koldo Fernández" and rarely just "Fernández".

Basques also will sometimes have surnames where they've compounded existing surnames into a single word, creating extensive compounds. A good example of this is the former women's pro Eneritz Iturriagaecheverría Mazaga, where Iturriaga and Echeverría were previously two surnames that at some point in the ancestral history had become combined into a single one, so that it is solely her paternal surname; at the same time, however, only the first part was typically used and she would typically be referred to as "Iturriaga". The most famous example of this in cycling would be former Vuelta winner Francisco Gabica, whose actual surnames were Gabicagogueascoa Ibarra.

In tennis, it seems like it's used more frequently with Roberto Bautista Agut and Pablo Carreño Busta as just two examples but I always thought it was just the ignorance of an Anglo Saxon dominated world that was responsible for that.

It may be, there's also Arantxa Sánchez Vicario as a precedent for that, although unlike Bautista Agut and Carreño Busta she would appear to follow the typical rule of thumb here, having a super common paternal surname - like all of the cyclists mentioned to date bar Gustavo César Veloso.

There's also, for example, Federico García Lorca. Also Picasso was Pablo's maternal surname - the same goes for José Luís Rodríguez Zapatero, who was almost exclusively known as Zapatero in reportage.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

How about Rigoberto Urán? I'm always calling him the sort of matenr Urán, and not Urán.

Yes, this is also a not-uncommon thing with super common surnames, especially in the Basque-Navarrese area where there are a lot of composite surnames. These usually take the form of a locative or descriptor, so things like "González de Galdeano" fall into that area. Often these are like "Fernández from [family house or village]" but as Basque surnames were usually taken from the descriptions of the family house or where a family was from, these can create confusion. Other examples from the world of cycling:

As a paternal surname:
Andoni López de Abetxuco Jiménez
Alberto Fernández de la Puebla Ramos
Vicente García de Mateos Rubio

As a maternal surname:
Pello Bilbao López de Armentia
Íñigo Cuesta López de Castro

As double composite:
Alberto López de Muniain Ruíz de Gauna

As a (comparatively rare) hyphenated compound (which also follows the same rules as the locatives):
Juan António López-Cozar Jaimez
Eduardo Pérez-Landaluce González

An unusual exception is Koldo Fernández de Larrea Pérez, where Fernández de Larrea is a compound surname, but he would almost always be known solely as Koldo Fernández - however people would usually use his uncommon, Basque forename to differentiate him, always saying "Koldo Fernández" and rarely just "Fernández".

Basques also will sometimes have surnames where they've compounded existing surnames into a single word, creating extensive compounds. A good example of this is the former women's pro Eneritz Iturriagaecheverría Mazaga, where Iturriaga and Echeverría were previously two surnames that at some point in the ancestral history had become combined into a single one, so that it is solely her paternal surname; at the same time, however, only the first part was typically used and she would typically be referred to as "Iturriaga". The most famous example of this in cycling would be former Vuelta winner Francisco Gabica, whose actual surnames were Gabicagogueascoa Ibarra.

It may be, there's also Arantxa Sánchez Vicario as a precedent for that, although unlike Bautista Agut and Carreño Busta she would appear to follow the typical rule of thumb here, having a super common paternal surname - like all of the cyclists mentioned to date bar Gustavo César Veloso.

There's also, for example, Federico García Lorca. Also Picasso was Pablo's maternal surname - the same goes for José Luís Rodríguez Zapatero, who was almost exclusively known as Zapatero in reportage.

There's also two current Basque U23 road/CX riders called Diego Ruiz De Arcaute Diaz De Alda and Gorka Corres Ibáñez de Opakua. Julen Arriolabengoa Beitia's paternal surname is sometimes hyphenated and other times written as one word.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

How about Rigoberto Urán? I'm always calling him the sort of matenr Urán, and not Urán.

You should make sure that you refer to him by the first Urán, never by the second one.

 

[RedheadDane]

You should make sure that you refer to him by the first Urán, never by the second one.

Same with Sergio Samitier Samitier.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Same with Sergio Samitier Samitier.

I always call him Triple S.

You should make sure that you refer to him by the first Urán, never by the second one.

It was a joke I decided to abandon. but apparently I didn't delete it properly before posting.

 

[ingsve]

There's also, for example, Federico García Lorca. Also Picasso was Pablo's maternal surname - the same goes for José Luís Rodríguez Zapatero, who was almost exclusively known as Zapatero in reportage.

Speaking of Picasso. How would his full name break down into parts?

From wiki it says: Pablo Diego José Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno María de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santísima Trinidad Mártir Patricio Ruiz y Picasso.

 

[tobydawq]

Speaking of Picasso. How would his full name break down into parts?

From wiki it says: Pablo Diego José Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno María de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santísima Trinidad Mártir Patricio Ruiz y Picasso.

He must have a lot of parents.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Speaking of Picasso. How would his full name break down into parts?

From wiki it says: Pablo Diego José Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno María de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santísima Trinidad Mártir Patricio Ruiz y Picasso.

This is a holdover from days when people would be given multiple appellations from Catholic saints as well as bestowing familial names of relatives. There are also a number of given names that are in and of themselves compound names which continues to extend the name. The 'y' between patronymic and matronymic surnames is an archaism which was already dying out by Picasso's time (you will see it very commonly around the era of the conquistadors, for example) although it still survives to some extent in Catalan.

Seeing this name written down I would break this down:
1. Pablo (given name)
2. Diego + José (familial middle names)
3. Francisco de Paula (could be a familial name as it is a compound given name, or could be a Saints' name, as the name is derived from St. Francis of Paola)
4. Juan + Nepomuceno (further likely familial names)
5. María de los Remedios (an honorific for the Virgin Mary meaning "St Mary of the Cures". It has become a given name in its own right, people with it are usually just known as "Remedios" however. As Picasso is male, this is almost certainly a religious addition rather than a familial one)
6. Cipriano de la Santísima Trinidad Martír (religious addition, referencing the martyrdom of St. Cyprian of the Holy Trinity)
7. Patricio (again, either familial or religious)
8. Ruíz y Picasso (father's and mother's patronymic surnames)

Given the order I would presume that in this case "Francisco de Paula" is a reference to a family member named for the Saint, while "Patricio" is a reference to the saint, because this would give us the relatively typical order of "given name --> names of family members --> religious names and honorifics --> surnames".

Is commonnes of the first surname that big of a deal? I've never really seen Purito referred to by his a double surname, though maybe I overestimate how common of a name Rodriguez is.

I'd also think that target audience is a bit of a driver of using only one or multiple last names. As people get more famous and known to an international audience, it seems the maternal surname stops being mentioned unless the person specifically wants it. I noticed Carlos Alcaraz being referred to as Alcaraz Garfia quite a bit when he just started out but now I haven't seen it in ages.

It's not a big deal per se, it's just that in cases where both surnames are used or where the matronymic is used, in the vast majority of cases the patronymic surname is super common, at least where the usage of the surnames in that fashion originates in the Spanish world. Often it's simply about being able to identify people. This is also why you sometimes see people being known by their full given name + surname at all times (see for example Xabi Alonso, almost never "Alonso". Spanish-language commentary would seldom say "Sánchez" in the late 2000s/early 2010s, always "Samuel Sánchez", "Luís León Sánchez" or some variant thereof, and likewise you would usually hear something like "Joaquim Rodríguez" or "Purito Rodríguez", or even just "Joaquím" or "Purito" on commentary to identify him. Use of the matronymic is no different to that, it's just less common.