All pro cyclists are doped...*

[Nick777]

* except the ones I like.

 

[scribe]

After all the scientific mumbo jumbo, without positive tests, this is pretty much what the whole argument boils down to.

 

[Ozzie2]

* and Australian ones

 

[180mmCrank]

I had an Australian coach who whenever any of us would get pulled up for a drug test...

"Yeah - It's a good job it's a drug test and not a dope test - because all you dopes would fail!"

I know it's not funny - it wasn't funny then either.

Although I might add that his coaching style was to repeat over and over as he watched us "No...no...no...no...nearly...no...no...no..." - quite inspiring not!

 

[Ozzie2]

I had an Australian coach...

Although I might add that his coaching style was to repeat over and over as he watched us "No...no...no...no...nearly...no...no...no..." - quite inspiring not!

Ouch. I just relived my wedding night there

(hey- at least he was strong on communication)

 

[the truth.]

gotta have faith.

the big mig days are long gone

sure a majority of the top pros 1991-2004 doped
i think we are agreed.
but there is a new beginning. public opinion-team /sponsor desires and the testing have determined the cheats are on the run

Trust in the future

life bans- dealer takes 2

 

[red_flanders]

Going to need to see a lot more than I've seen to believe there's been any significant change in the sport.

 

[Ozzie2]

i winder if a truth and reconciliation commission woud do the trick?
as in what they did in Sth Africa
all can come clean
no damages
no recriminations
not binding on any old court cases
no taking back of medals
break the entire sports system, then start fresh
i reckon theres a lot of people who would like to come clean get monkeys off their back
pipe dream no doubt

 

[Hammerhed]

Moratorium

Ozzie2, that's the best idea I've heard about doping in a long time. I don't know who would have the guts to come forth, but at least those living in constant fear of discovery could do so if they wished.
But I think the sport is nearly clean now. Gone are the days when a rider could turn in long, consectutive, explosive bursts over and over, day after day without arousing suspicion. DiLuca looked dirty at the Giro. At the Tour, nobody looked dirty to me, though I guess the dirty rider's victory (I've forgotten him) was too good to be true. Breakaways work again. Guys are lying around gasping for air, unable to interview, after stages. They look worn out. I think the tide has turned...more than that, really. I think that dopers are a minority, few and far between. The Vuelta will tell, again.

 

[Ozzie2]

Ozzie2, that's the best idea I've heard about doping in a long time. I don't know who would have the guts to come forth, but at least those living in constant fear of discovery could do so if they wished.
But I think the sport is nearly clean now. Gone are the days when a rider could turn in long, consectutive, explosive bursts over and over, day after day without arousing suspicion. DiLuca looked dirty at the Giro. At the Tour, nobody looked dirty to me, though I guess the dirty rider's victory (I've forgotten him) was too good to be true. Breakaways work again. Guys are lying around gasping for air, unable to interview, after stages. They look worn out. I think the tide has turned...more than that, really. I think that dopers are a minority, few and far between. The Vuelta will tell, again.

thx

i think i heard the idea from walsh's interview about his book lance to landis

the mp3 of it is here somewhere

i don't think it is clean as you do. i like stu o'grady- for example, but the way he led the peleton lasst year- thats out of the box

and some cyclists, the speed they are doing, and the extra acceleration, surely not possible naturally

or are the training programs better now?

be nice tho wouldnt it

there must be a lot of skeletons in a lot of closets

sometimes i think it would be nice to be a catholic- you go int a room and confess to a strange man and pay a small fine. and Adam takes all the blame

i know it healed a lot of people in Sth Africa

but the legal thing means it wouldnt work, sadly

everyone would want their sponsorship money, and prize money and so forth back

 

[Anonymous]

Ouch. I just relived my wedding night there

(hey- at least he was strong on communication)

someone was watching you on your wedding night?

 

[auscyclefan94]

gotta have faith.

the big mig days are long gone

sure a majority of the top pros 1991-2004 doped
i think we are agreed.
but there is a new beginning. public opinion-team /sponsor desires and the testing have determined the cheats are on the run

Trust in the future

life bans- dealer takes 2

I think thats a good atitude. The fans have to trust i the future because if we don't then what hope do we have.

 

[scribe]

but the legal thing means it wouldnt work, sadly

everyone would want their sponsorship money, and prize money and so forth back

Besides, without proper doping controls in place, you can't stop an individual from paying for and seeking an advantage over the confessed group all over again.

 

[elapid]

Ozzie2, that's the best idea I've heard about doping in a long time. I don't know who would have the guts to come forth, but at least those living in constant fear of discovery could do so if they wished.
But I think the sport is nearly clean now. Gone are the days when a rider could turn in long, consectutive, explosive bursts over and over, day after day without arousing suspicion. DiLuca looked dirty at the Giro. At the Tour, nobody looked dirty to me, though I guess the dirty rider's victory (I've forgotten him) was too good to be true. Breakaways work again. Guys are lying around gasping for air, unable to interview, after stages. They look worn out. I think the tide has turned...more than that, really. I think that dopers are a minority, few and far between. The Vuelta will tell, again.

I am not sure we were watching the same Giro or TdF. DiLuca and Menchov in the Giro; and Contador, Andy Schleck and Armstrong, amongst others, all did and looked as you described. It was great that some of the breakaways stayed away, but Astraloza was one of those guys gasping for air at the end of the stage and for a rider of his calibre most would say it was well-deserved rather than too good to be true (prior to the release of the positive result). I am not as pessimistic as BigBoat, but would hazard a guess that over 50% of the peloton are doping and many of the top 10-20 riders are doping. I don't think riders, particularly the top riders who can afford good doctors and programs, are running scared because they are ahead of the doping controls and the UCI and the biological passport are largely ineffective for a number of reasons that have been extensively covered in other threads. However, in saying that, I enjoy watching professional cycling for everything that it embodies as a race - team work, pain, joy, amazing feats, etc. I am sure doping may be involved in some of these factors, but it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the sport.

 

[David Suro]

The problem is not linked to cycling, or even sport, alone. Ours is a 'quick-fix' society based on desire, greed, and instant gratification.

In the U.S. there is a pill for everything.

If you can't get your wedding tackle to work - take a pill.

If you are obese - take a pill.

If you can't sleep - take a pill.

If you can't wake up - take a pill.

If you sneeze - take a pill.

As a physician who does not prescribe any medications (just lifestyle changes like proper diet and exercise) I face this mindset in my office every day.

It seems everyone is looking for an easy way to make an improvement. Cheating in sport by using pills or shots is just another way people look for the instant gratification and supposed improvement in self.

The good news is that doping was less of an issue in the 2009 tour than in any previous tour for a decade. As it stands now, the following statements are true: No teams were disqualified. No rider was stripped of a jersey. The podium is not in question. The courts will not decide who won (except one mountain stage). No team cars were stopped at border crossings with pharmacies inside of them.

Either the teams and riders are becomming better at avoiding detection or doping is on the decline.

Either way, the 2009 TDF had drama surrounding what was going on on the road. Cav popping off at the mouth about Thor and then they made friends was a good story. Armstrong vs. Contador was a good story. The emergence of Japanese into the peleton was a good story. New young riders made an impact on the race and aging veterans also played a major role, both good stories. The biggest debatable issue of the tour seemed to be the banning of radios on two stages, another good story. The coverage of the race was finally about just that - the race.

There is much reason to be optomistic about the future of the sport. Moreso than at any time in the last decade!

 

[Winterfold]

nice post David, maybe I am more suspiscous than you, but I feel optimistic that the tide has turned

 

[Ozzie2]

That's a great post worthy of it's own thread
2 quick comments though


1) jury not yet back in

2) apart from one cross wind it was the MOST BORING frikkin race I've ever seen

eech

maybe the race is so predictable Now- super team being unassailable, TTT killing it early, oeleton mafia on cadel, cavendish winning stage #73

Bring back Floyd?

Add weights, ban lead ins in 3x stages, mountain ITT

but you are absolutely right. On that basis we design a race requiring supra human ability to win and act surprised when a Schumacher or Ricci is busted, but we watch the mountain stages waiting to be entertained by a ricci like breakaway up a high degree climb

eyes wide shut I think it is

don't ask, don't tell, the odd sacrificial lamb thrown to the gods of testing

The problem is not linked to cycling, or even sport, alone. Ours is a 'quick-fix' society based on desire, greed, and instant gratification.

In the U.S. there is a pill for everything.

If you can't get your wedding tackle to work - take a pill.

If you are obese - take a pill.

If you can't sleep - take a pill.

If you can't wake up - take a pill.

If you sneeze - take a pill.

As a physician who does not prescribe any medications (just lifestyle changes like proper diet and exercise) I face this mindset in my office every day.

It seems everyone is looking for an easy way to make an improvement. Cheating in sport by using pills or shots is just another way people look for the instant gratification and supposed improvement in self.

The good news is that doping was less of an issue in the 2009 tour than in any previous tour for a decade. As it stands now, the following statements are true: No teams were disqualified. No rider was stripped of a jersey. The podium is not in question. The courts will not decide who won (except one mountain stage). No team cars were stopped at border crossings with pharmacies inside of them.

Either the teams and riders are becomming better at avoiding detection or doping is on the decline.

Either way, the 2009 TDF had drama surrounding what was going on on the road. Cav popping off at the mouth about Thor and then they made friends was a good story. Armstrong vs. Contador was a good story. The emergence of Japanese into the peleton was a good story. New young riders made an impact on the race and aging veterans also played a major role, both good stories. The biggest debatable issue of the tour seemed to be the banning of radios on two stages, another good story. The coverage of the race was finally about just that - the race.

There is much reason to be optomistic about the future of the sport. Moreso than at any time in the last decade!