Alpe d'Huez - 2011

[porkchop_sideburns]

Seeking your thoughts:

If the winner of this year's stage up Alpe d'Huez does the final climb in less then approximately 40' 00" will he be considered to be doping?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Seeking your thoughts:

If the winner of this year's stage up Alpe d'Huez does the final climb in less then approximately 40' 00" will he be considered to be doping?

Welcome back.

Depends on the route leading to the climb and how it's raced.

 

[red_explosions]

Well here's the list (according to Wikipedia) of riders that have gone up Alpe d'Huez in less than 40 minutes:

Pantani
Armstrong
Ullrich
Landis
Kloden
Virenque
Mayo
Azevedo
Indurain
Zulle
Riis
Sastre
Bugno

Wouldn't exactly be the first names you'd put down to represent Team Clean Cycling.

 

[luckyboy]

Whoever ends up going up first isn't going to be clean.

 

[porkchop_sideburns]

Exactly my point. You have to go to Frank Schleck who climbed it in 40"+. No slight to Frank, but I do not consider him an "elite" climber like Andy & Alberto.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Contador needed 42.11 in the DL last year. That seems the time possible in the middle of a Exchanging-Blood/Clenbuterol/Plasticziser ride.

So yes, if the time is below 40.00, it´s a "doped" performance.

 

[halamala]

Well here's the list (according to Wikipedia) of riders that have gone up Alpe d'Huez in less than 40 minutes:

Wouldn't exactly be the first names you'd put down to represent Team Clean Cycling.

Less than 40 minutes:

Pantani(x3), Indurain(x3), Armstrong(x2), Ullrich(x2), Riis(x2), Klöden(x2), Sastre (x2), Leblanc(x2), Zülle, Virenque, Landis, Mayo, Leipheimer, Azevedo, Casagrande, Bugno, Menchov, Rasmussen, Caucchioli, S. Gonzalez, Guerini, Karpets, B. Zberg, Bölts, Conti, Madouas, Moncoutie, Goubert, Basso

 

[Escarabajo]

Less than 40 minutes:

Pantani(x3), Indurain(x3), Armstrong(x2), Ullrich(x2), Riis(x2), Klöden(x2), Sastre (x2), Leblanc(x2), Zülle, Virenque, Landis, Mayo, Leipheimer, Azevedo, Casagrande, Bugno, Menchov, Rasmussen, Caucchioli, S. Gonzalez, Guerini, Karpets, B. Zberg, Bölts, Conti, Madouas, Moncoutie, Goubert, Basso

When did Moncoutie did it below the 40 minutes?

Couldn't be in the 2004 Tour because I just checked it.

 

[Mambo95]

When did Moncoutie did it below the 40 minutes?

Couldn't be in the 2004 Tour because I just checked it.

It would have been 2004. That TT was 15.5km, while the climb is 13.8km. The 2004 climb times listed on Wiki for the likes of Armstrong, Ullrich and Kloden are a little over 2 minutes shorter than their TT times that day.

Moncoutie did the TT in 42.03, so he probably just ducked under 40 minutes.

 

[halamala]

When did Moncoutie did it below the 40 minutes?

Couldn't be in the 2004 Tour because I just checked it.

Tour 2004, Stage 16, Alpe d'Huez ITT

[Cyclingnews, live report]

Intermediate timing

1.5 km (complete)

1. Fabian Cancellara (FAS) 2.01
4. Lance Armstrong (USP) 2.05
Moncoutie maybe ~2.15-2.20(?)

Finish 15.5 km

1. Lance Armstrong (USP) 39:41
9. David Moncoutie (COF) 2.22 ( = 42:03 )

42:03 - ~2.15-2.20 = ~39:43-39:48 , Moncoutie certainly under 40 min.

 

[Escarabajo]

Ok Thanks.

This guy was unlucky to be born in a different generation or else..

 

[Le breton]

When did Moncoutie did it below the 40 minutes?

Couldn't be in the 2004 Tour because I just checked it.

I might have the times for 2004 somewhere.

About 10-12 racers could have been below 40: 00 that day.

In the Dauphiné last year the wind was too strong near the top to permit a good time.

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 39.41 (23.44 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.41
4 Jose Azevedo (Por) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.45
5 Santos Gonzalez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.11
6 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team
7 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto 2.15
8 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 2.23
9 David Moncoutié (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
10 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 2.27
11 Stéphane Goubert (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance 2.33
12 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick Step-Davitamon 2.34

 

[halamala]

I might have the times for 2004 somewhere.

About 10-12 racers could have been below 40: 00 that day.

I think 9 racers certainly below 40:00 : Armstrong, Ullrich, Klöden, Azevedo, S. Gonzaleez, Guerini, Karpets, Basso, Moncoutie

2 racers likely below 40:00 : Sastre, Goubert

1 racer unlikely below 40:00 : Rogers

Other racers : no chance below 40:00

 

[Escarabajo]

I might have the times for 2004 somewhere.

About 10-12 racers could have been below 40: 00 that day.

In the Dauphiné last year the wind was too strong near the top to permit a good time.

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 39.41 (23.44 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.41
4 Jose Azevedo (Por) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.45
5 Santos Gonzalez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.11
6 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team
7 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto 2.15
8 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 2.23
9 David Moncoutié (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
10 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 2.27
11 Stéphane Goubert (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance 2.33
12 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick Step-Davitamon 2.34

Correct, but look at Halamala post. You have to discount the 1.5 K of flat.

 

[Le breton]

Correct, but look at Halamala post. You have to discount the 1.5 K of flat.

That's why I stopped at Rogers! Who is unlikely below 40min.

 

[Escarabajo]

That's why I stopped at Rogers! Who is unlikely below 40min.

Just checking.

 

[ChrisE]

So are we saying Moncoutie is a doper?

 

[Le breton]

So are we saying Moncoutie is a doper?

Weird!!!

Moncoutié and other racers who started earlier in the day (TT AdH 2004)were advantaged compared to say Armstrong, Ullrich, Kloden,... as the wind became a bit of a problem in the last section of the climb later on. Consequently he lost less time on L.A. on the second half of the climb, after the timing point No2 (1395 m asl) than on the first half (between point 1 & point2.)

Contrary to EPO/blood boosted cyclists, after several mountain passes Moncoutié is not able to climb the last mountain pass as fast as he does say AdH on a TT.

 

[Frosty]

Moncoutie finished 23 minutes down on the previous stage in 2004 and the day before that was a rest day. Therefore he should have been relatively well rested for the last week of a GT.

 

[ChrisE]

Hey foxxybrown, he of the pitchfork brigade, said anybody doing it less than 40 mins was a doper. I am just asking the question on what the groupthink is now. Maybe you guys need to huddle up.

 

[halamala]

I think 9 racers certainly below 40:00 : Armstrong, Ullrich, Klöden, Azevedo, S. Gonzaleez, Guerini, Karpets, Basso, Moncoutie

2 racers likely below 40:00 : Sastre, Goubert

1 racer unlikely below 40:00 : Rogers

Other racers : no chance below 40:00

According to Mr. Frédéric Porteleau [Cyclismag.com]

-Sastre ne semble pas fatiguer après plusieurs ascensions. En 2004, il avait gravi l'Alpe d'Huez en 39'57'' lors du contre la montre et 39'30'' cette année à la fin d'une étape de 210 km après deux grands cols. Il avait même fait 39'01' en 2006. En parallèle, Moncoutié et Goubert avaient gravi la montée de l'Alpe lors du contre la montre respectivement en 39'56'' et 39'58''. Cette année, ils n'ont pu faire mieux que 44'27'' et 43'30''. L'effet de la fatigue est clairement visible pour ces deux coureurs au contraire de Sastre.

 

[ChrisE]

According to Mr. Frédéric Porteleau [Cyclismag.com]

-Sastre ne semble pas fatiguer après plusieurs ascensions. En 2004, il avait gravi l'Alpe d'Huez en 39'57'' lors du contre la montre et 39'30'' cette année à la fin d'une étape de 210 km après deux grands cols. Il avait même fait 39'01' en 2006. En parallèle, Moncoutié et Goubert avaient gravi la montée de l'Alpe lors du contre la montre respectivement en 39'56'' et 39'58''. Cette année, ils n'ont pu faire mieux que 44'27'' et 43'30''. L'effet de la fatigue est clairement visible pour ces deux coureurs au contraire de Sastre.

So, are we now saying that Sastre is a doper?

 

[patricknd]

So are we saying Moncoutie is a doper?

can't be, we decided that in a seperate thread. geez, do your research.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

It's an interesting debate, but I'm going to let the race sample test results provide the answer to this question.

 

[ChrisE]

can't be, we decided that in a seperate thread. geez, do your research.

But, but, bbbutt. How dare you......I will get you for this.

Foxxybrown said anybody climbing it less than 40 was a doper. Then they say he isn't because he gets tired in GT's. Then they compare him to Sastre who doesn't get tired in GT's but the CW in here is that Sastre is clean.

I think I'm gonna go play golf and drink alot of beer and think about this awhile. My head hurts.