Aluminum spokes

[Brian Sandilands]

A hundred years ago, when I was a structural engineer, I learnt that aluminum, although a third the weight of steel, was also a third as strong. So if aluminum is used for spokes it will be three times the cross section to get equivalent strength. I also see to remember that fatigue was not very good for aluminum. And the additional size of the aluminum spokes must increase the drag?

So (Mavic), why aluminum spokes?

Brian.

 

[Captain Serious]

In my opinion, it's just a cheap-ish way for companies to cut the weight up to100g on mid-range wheels for marketing purposes. For example, Campag Eurus have alu spokes, while Zondas have steel. Apart from that, the wheels have very little differences (if any), and the Eurus are reportedly 73g lighter.

Yes, 'tests' I've seen show that broad, flat spokes create more drag than oval spokes. High-end wheels tend to have smaller, oval, steel spokes.

 

[LugHugger]

I've no doubt that the main reason is weight.

I have 8000kms+ on a pair of Ksyrium SL Premium's with zero defects. Bearings are smooth, rims are dead straight, stiff and true after 18 months. I look after them.

No doubt, they're an accident waiting to happen, but at the moment I can not question their value or performance.

Just being even handed

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I think the biggest issue would be eventual fatigue. I have a pair of Eurus made before Campy changed to aluminium spokes. They have been very durable. I do not think I would buy a new set with aluminium spokes.

 

[Brian Sandilands]

The weight of aly v steel is not the issue as the weight is very similar. Fatigue is a problem with aly, I believe. I have broken two spokes on my Mavic's and had the wheels trued frequently (3 times in the past 6 months). My Mavic wheels with aly spokes are 6 years old and have gone 35k miles. But the wheels on my Trek 2500 (20 years old, steel spokes) has probably done more mile and are still very solid.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Aluminum spokes offer no performance advantage whatsoever, whether it's weight, ride quality, nothing. All they're good for is something to look at, it's just as Captain Serious said about being a marketing ploy to sell wheels. May be a tad lighter, but you'll gain far more advantage by training harder, and they don't last as long as a wheel should hold together. Only if Mavic decided to make something that lasts for 20 years, but then they wouldn't make any money. I'm at a loss for words why people still buy into Mavic, all it is is name recognition, nothing more/less, they're by far one of the worst wheels mfg's on the planet.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

... I'm at a loss for words why people still buy into Mavic, all it is is name recognition, nothing more/less, they're by far one of the worst wheels mfg's on the planet.

I'll vouch for that. Two Mavic wheels I got from a local dealer radially cracked at the spoke nipples. I won't go back to them.

 

[brianf7]

A hundred years ago, when I was a structural engineer, I learnt that aluminum, although a third the weight of steel, was also a third as strong. So if aluminum is used for spokes it will be three times the cross section to get equivalent strength. I also see to remember that fatigue was not very good for aluminum. And the additional size of the aluminum spokes must increase the drag?

So (Mavic), why aluminum spokes?

Brian.

Simple without going into metalurgey aluminum 'aint' aluminum any more alloys used for spokes are specialy treated usulay 5 parts steel and 3 parts aluminum + whatever they add to make them stronger stiffer and lighter.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

A hundred years ago, when I was a structural engineer, I learnt that aluminum, although a third the weight of steel, was also a third as strong. So if aluminum is used for spokes it will be three times the cross section to get equivalent strength. I also see to remember that fatigue was not very good for aluminum. And the additional size of the aluminum spokes must increase the drag?

So (Mavic), why aluminum spokes?

Brian.

Like they say, 'it's for selling'. Very expensive and poorly designed answer to a simple question. They do nothing that a steel spoke doesn't do except at a higher cost and lower life span. Same for Campagnolo/Fulcrum wheels.

I agree with RDV, mavic is a distant, DISTANT last choice when it comes to rims and I don't sell their crappy wheels at all. I DO service them frequently, the poor, 1950s design, rear hub with cheap plastic bushings and 2 pawls and expensive and multitude of lengths and colors(oooooo, red spoke!!) for the ALU spokes.

OEM is where you see these things, priced at a amount that no bike production manager can ignore(read-CHEAP). Anybody that buys these aftermarket is nutz, IMHO.

 

[Notso Swift]

That is a bit unfair Mavic WERE the benchmark... I had some GP4's and they were the ducks guts... but that was another world away from today

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

That is a bit unfair Mavic WERE the benchmark... I had some GP4's and they were the ducks guts... but that was another world away from today

Bring back the Open 4.

 

[Master50]

My wife and I boyh have a pair of 2007 Shamal Wheels with aluminum alloy spokes.
They all have around 14,000 km and are round and true. They spin freely as Campy wheels do. 2 years ago my wife had a pedal get in her front wheel. The 3 spokes that were affected did not break and she was able to finish the ride. Amazingly the wheel barely went out of true even though the spokes were obviously bent. After changing them out the wheel is good as new.
So far I think that the wheels are very well made and the spokes are very strong as are the rims.
I have never owned Mavic wheels but I only used their rims when I built wheels. Their rims are high quality and consistent build.

 

[Stingray34]

Okay, so Mavic's prebuilt wheels are worth a chop these days, but aren't their Open Pro's still worthy of being built up? If not, what rim could you recommend?

As far as pre-builts go, which company offers good all-round quality and durability? DT Swiss? Shimano?

Have to agree, my old Open4CD's were brilliant...they looked pretty too.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Okay, so Mavic's prebuilt wheels are worth a chop these days, but aren't their Open Pro's still worthy of being built up? If not, what rim could you recommend?

As far as pre-builts go, which company offers good all-round quality and durability? DT Swiss? Shimano?

Have to agree, my old Open4CD's were brilliant...they looked pretty too.

OpenPros suffer from noisy wedge(the thing placed in there to hold the ends of the rim together for welding, then it breaks loose and rattles) and consistently noisy eyelets.

CXP-33 aren't bad, but DT 465, 415 and 585 are light years better rims.

shimano, Campagnolo and Fulcrum aren't bad since they use decent hubs but they still use unique to those wheels hubs, spokes and rims and when ya kill one, likely the company doesn't have a replacement to support it.

Find a decent wheelbuilder who can design and build a wheelset specifically for you and your needs. Better wheelset and probably less expensive to boot.

 

[Stingray34]

OpenPros suffer from noisy wedge(the thing placed in there to hold the ends of the rim together for welding, then it breaks loose and rattles) and consistently noisy eyelets.

CXP-33 aren't bad, but DT 465, 415 and 585 are light years better rims.

shimano, Campagnolo and Fulcrum aren't bad since they use decent hubs but they still use unique to those wheels hubs, spokes and rims and when ya kill one, likely the company doesn't have a replacement to support it.

Find a decent wheelbuilder who can design and build a wheelset specifically for you and your needs. Better wheelset and probably less expensive to boot.

Thanks, BK: appreciate your expertise.

Shame to hear Mavic dropped the bundle...sounds like Polar.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Thanks, BK: appreciate your expertise.

Shame to hear Mavic dropped the bundle...sounds like Polar.

The Salomon buy was the first step..they wanted 'packages', like ski packages instead of individual stuff, like rims. Plus initially a bunch of ski techs were building the wheels...different emphasis now, they want you to buy their wheels, not rims. Same for Campagnolo(only one hub offered now in one drilling).

Mavic helmets are coming next..they have forgotten the phrase, "do one thing and do it well'. Their clothes are awful, their shoes aren't much better. Pedals are copies of others....

 

[LugHugger]

The Salomon buy was the first step..they wanted 'packages', like ski packages instead of individual stuff, like rims. Plus initially a bunch of ski techs were building the wheels...different emphasis now, they want you to buy their wheels, not rims. Same for Campagnolo(only one hub offered now in one drilling).

Mavic helmets are coming next..they have forgotten the phrase, "do one thing and do it well'. Their clothes are awful, their shoes aren't much better. Pedals are copies of others....

OK. I'm going to take exception here. I've just spent a very wet UK weekend riding over 250kms wearing the Mavic Infinity H2O jacket and it is hands down the best waterproof riding jacket I've worn. I've been through Endura, Castelli and Rapha waterproofs and none of them were any where near approaching the effectiveness of the Infinity. Venting in the right places and material that does the job it's supposed to. I've two race seasons in their Fury's and they fit like slippers and are the equal of any Sidi that I've owned.

There are numerous examples of companies with multi channel brands. To purport that modern manufacturing is only capable of producing one product effectively is nonsense. Sorry.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

OK. I'm going to take exception here. I've just spent a very wet UK weekend riding over 250kms wearing the Mavic Infinity H2O jacket and it is hands down the best waterproof riding jacket I've worn. I've been through Endura, Castelli and Rapha waterproofs and none of them were any where near approaching the effectiveness of the Infinity. Venting in the right places and material that does the job it's supposed to. I've two race seasons in their Fury's and they fit like slippers and are the equal of any Sidi that I've owned.

There are numerous examples of companies with multi channel brands. To purport that modern manufacturing is only capable of producing one product effectively is nonsense. Sorry.

Modern companies can manufacture multi products if they are well designed and then well done.

Don't be sorry, I sold mavic clothes for a year and their sizing was AWFUL. Not the quality but a XXL vest that fit like a medium, XL bibs that waist size in medium and length like XXXL, mislabeled jackets, arm warmers, like the rest of the stuff, that was sized poorly.

Not a fan of yellow and white shoes either.

Not gonna sell mavic in 2011/12...sorry.

 

[LugHugger]

Modern companies can manufacture multi products if they are well designed and then well done.

Don't be sorry, I sold mavic clothes for a year and their sizing was AWFUL. Not the quality but a XXL vest that fit like a medium, XL bibs that waist size in medium and length like XXXL, mislabeled jackets, arm warmers, like the rest of the stuff, that was sized poorly.

Not a fan of yellow and white shoes either.

Not gonna sell mavic in 2011/12...sorry.

So, based on the fact that their published sizing ranges are non-US standard and that their shoes are yellow, you make a statement alluding to their lack of performance? Forgive me, but there doesn't seem to be any problem with Mavic here.