Amanda Knox, your thoughts?

[Bavarianrider]

Guys, i know this is a bit of a cheesy and washed out topic.
But as this was very big last week i was suprised it wasn't mentioned here at all.
The interesting aspect in this case in my opinion is the fact that people's opinion seems to be highly driven by their nationality. So in an international forum like this one, it's interesting how you guys think of it.
Personally i think it's one huge scandal she was robbed four years of her life. There's just no way you should do this to a person with so little, or better, no real evidence at all. Especially how british media tried to discredit her in any thinkable way is a huge disgrace. Glad she got justice at last.

 

[rhubroma]

That's the thing. The media, especially the American media, made the judicial process quite impossible.

For the Americans Amanda was an angel, for the British she was a ****.

The real tragedy here, and this is what seems to have been lost in all the media hype, is that Meredith's killers, except for the black guy, remain on the loose. Her family is thus literally being killed with doubt. For if Amanda and Raffaele (oh, and that's another thing, the Italian, Raffaele, Amanda's lover, where was all of the hullabaloo over him in all of this?). He was like the forgotten unit.

There was a cultural battle here which one side won. Fine. Let's hope she really is innocent. However the absence of scientific proof, alone, can not demonstrate that Amanda and Raffaele were not the killers, nor can it answer the question that if Amanda were innocent, then why did she accuse Patrice Lumbuma of the heinous crime, when later it was discovered that he had an irrefutable alibi for which she is now guilty of calumny? While, in the end, that's what the final verdict was exclusively based upon.

I'm not saying that the Italian investigators handled the investigation as well as it should have been done, but this smacks of a case that became politicized and sensationalized by the media in all the wrong ways and certainly not in the ways that could allow the judicial process to have developed without pressure and without such high claims at stake.

At least Amanda has been liberated after only 4 years, though, unlike the black man, Dewey Bozella, who has recently been released from a US prison in New York after 26 years for a murder he did not commit.

In any case the lame cries and hisses on the part of the Italians outside the Perugian tribunal after the verdict, and the stupid yankee cheers of exaltation at the other end only affirms that when the media wages war in such cases: the Truth becomes a matter of mere opinion and courtroom justice becomes a parody that pays' heed to the loudest and most formidable claque.

 

[Oldman]

Being a Seattle native we got our share of details. The only impression that stuck with me was the aggressive nature of the Italian prosecution. The family was threatened with lawsuits for questioning the political intent of the prosecutor. That seemed extreme by US standards. Aside from that the proceedings seemd so surreal I couldn't come to an opinion of guilt or innocence. The victim's family definitely were tormented by the whole affair.

 

[Stingray34]

I really don't have an opinion on this; the media shenanigans alone make a reasoned view seem all but impossible.

Tobias Jones, the English-Italian writer, who has written extensively on modern-day Italy, provided what I take to be a good and critical view of Italian Justice (oxymoron?)

See it here: http://m.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/justice-the-italian-way-20111005-1l9ka.html

Again, someone like rhubroma might have something worthwhile to say on this article. From the perspective of an outsider, I think Tobias is at least partly correct.

 

[Stingray34]

Apparently, even one of the jurors couldn't come to a reasoned opinion on the question of her innocence. Instead, he opted to acquit because of her 'innocent-looking face.'

What a mess. I at least hope someone has counselled her from using the phrase 'searching for the real killers.'

 

[fatandfast]

she is cute,kinky, free and she had something to do with the murder

 

[rhubroma]

Being a Seattle native we got our share of details. The only impression that stuck with me was the aggressive nature of the Italian prosecution. The family was threatened with lawsuits for questioning the political intent of the prosecutor. That seemed extreme by US standards. Aside from that the proceedings seemd so surreal I couldn't come to an opinion of guilt or innocence. The victim's family definitely were tormented by the whole affair.

Yea, I know, that was the media impression that was constructed to give the Italian judicial system a rather medieval identity. But form this end, with cases like the one I mentioned or ones in which some say black guy gets put in prison for years and perhaps is in the end is even executed, based upon a hearing in which he was defended by some bar room lawyer: the so called "standards" in the US seem mostly to be met by criteria that appears Byzantine in Europe.

Be that as it may. I'm not saying that Amanda's either guilty or innocent. In fact, I hope she is for everyone's sake.

But there was a cultural war here built up in the US media that was based upon the most superficial of analysis in regards to the characters involved. Like a soap opera. And there's never been a case between states in the history of judicial proceedings that has had an access to such a soap opera media hype.

This can only be detrimental to the judicial process, whatever the verdict.

This is what I find most distasteful and potentially destructive to finding out what actually happened and why, because of all the interests and propaganda.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I lived in Montepulciano for a time while in college and spent some of that time in Perugia; it was actually one of my favorite places to visit, so I took a special interest in the case. The crazy thing is, even though I started following the case early on, the international media circus blurred just about everything into ambiguity. It's hard for me to give an opinion anymore. I started out with the typical nationalistic view that she was an innocent scapegoat, but I don't really feel that way anymore. I'd say what makes this case so difficult and so polarizing are the differing legal standards, or the lack of understanding for these legal standards. I'm no expert on Italian law, but I do know their criminal code involves a standard of "prova al di là di ogni ragionevole dubbio" which translates to "proof beyond any reasonable doubt." Using that shared standard, they got it right. There wasn't enough to convict, and she should never have been convicted in the first place. However, Knox is not totally innocent; something happened that night. She may not have killed anyone, but she did something wrong.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

If everyone replied to this question, you'd see the entire spectrum of answers. I just hope in the end the correct verdict was given, even if it meant she had 4 years of her life taken from her. That's not as bad as life for a young person. But if she got away with something that deserves more than 4 years behind bars, then that's sad. No judgement system is perfect. All we can do is make the best of it and hope the end result comes out the way it should.

 

[rhubroma]

I lived in Montepulciano for a time while in college and spent some of that time in Perugia; it was actually one of my favorite places to visit, so I took a special interest in the case. The crazy thing is, even though I started following the case early on, the international media circus blurred just about everything into ambiguity. It's hard for me to give an opinion anymore. I started out with the typical nationalistic view that she was an innocent scapegoat, but I don't really feel that way anymore. I'd say what makes this case so difficult and so polarizing are the differing legal standards, or the lack of understanding for these legal standards. I'm no expert on Italian law, but I do know their criminal code involves a standard of "prova al di là di ogni ragionevole dubbio" which translates to "proof beyond any reasonable doubt." Using that shared standard, they got it right. There wasn't enough to convict, and she should never have been convicted in the first place. However, Knox is not totally innocent; something happened that night. She may not have killed anyone, but she did something wrong.

I think the Italians felt that there was enough evidence to convict her and Raffaele (an Italian, let's not forget about him) in the first instance, however, with pressure form Hillary Clinton due to all the wholesome characterization of that sweet, innocent American student abroad in a "medieval" place, which was propagated by the US media, the scientific aspects obtained a decisive force. I have some "inside" reason to arrive at such a conclusion. Also because the Americans wouldn't accept anything else but scientific proof. And this weighed most heavily on the Italians and hence the outcome of this case.

When it was thus demonstrated that the scientific evidence used to bolster the conviction was debatable, or even perhaps unreliable, the entire rational collapsed (even if it had also been based on a number of other things - which is where the cultural difference played into a loosing factor for the Italians).

Now I don't want anyone innocent placed in prison. At the same time, however, the way a certain media came to condition the outcome of the case, in this instance, honestly, was reprehensible, and my thoughts go out to Meredith's family. What a shame for them.

 

[ramjambunath]

Wasn't the man who was convicted supposedly not acting alone and his conviction itself was based on the pretence that he wasn't acting alone.

 

[Cobblestones]

she is cute,kinky, free and she had something to do with the murder

On a scale from 1 to 10, I'd hit it. But no bondage or S&M games...

 

[ElChingon]

she is cute,kinky, free and she had something to do with the murder

On a scale from 1 to 10, I'd hit it. But no bondage or S&M games...

Can't wait for the movie definitely cable or DVD only

In closing, USA-ans should not do weird stuff or be near weird stuff in a country where the USA military had accidentally killed their people with a lame military exercise that took out a tram line or was it cable car. Paybacks come in many different ways, this is just one example.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

she is cute, kinky, free and she had something to do with the murder

I was thinking the same, in a "lets smoke some hash, have an orgy, and get that dumb African friend of yours Rudy to off my slutty roommate" kind of way, sure.

Never thought she had her hands involved in the murder. Felt it was possible she was somehow culpable though as an accessory. Shame the media warped, twisted and mangled the whole thing to where it's very difficult to tell what's what.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

On a scale from 1 to 10, I'd hit it. But no bondage or S&M games...

2 Times. Not worried about the kinky stuff.

 

[Boeing]

id hit it with the media watching on prime time


damn

 

[Amsterhammer]

I'm as confused as everyone else about what really happened and agree that the media-hype-circus surrounding this case did not serve the best interests of justice. But, I don't think there was enough evidence to convict her of murder.

 

[Midnightfright]

I've will be honest with u I haven't heard any other stuff so can't comment. Not really a big fan of hip hop regardless though

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

Living in the UK I've read a fair amount about the case and to be honest what has really annoyed me about it is that since Amanda Knox was freed some of the UK Tabloids have still been talking about her as if she were guilty. They've had comment pieces about whether she feels for the Kercher family or not? She probably does but because it hasn't been expressed in 140 Characters on twitter the opinion piece writers thinks she's some kind of heinous ***** even if she wasn't the killer of meredith kercher.

 

[Midnightfright]

Living in the UK I've read a fair amount about the case and to be honest what has really annoyed me about it is that since Amanda Knox was freed some of the UK Tabloids have still been talking about her as if she were guilty. They've had comment pieces about whether she feels for the Kercher family or not? She probably does but because it hasn't been expressed in 140 Characters on twitter the opinion piece writers thinks she's some kind of heinous ***** even if she wasn't the killer of meredith kercher.

Wait a minute u read the UK tabloids?

 

[Martin318is]

The bit that actually scares me in the story is that the Italian investigators initially didn't have any evidence against her but decided that they were sure of her guilt due to utterly flawed analysis of her behaviour and body language when they watched her. After that they interpreted everything they saw on the basis of 'knowing' she was guilty.

It reminds me of the Madeline McCann story where the Portuguese police didn't really do enough initially because they apparently decided that the parents were involved in her disappearance. In both cases, its a person in authority misunderstanding the actions of a foreigner who by definition is going to behave differently to what they are used to seeing.

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

Wait a minute u read the UK tabloids?

nope but sadly most of the people I work with do so I regularly have to listen to the drivel that they come out with as if it were actual fact and dissapointingly a large amount of the population do believe it to be true.

 

[rhubroma]

The bit that actually scares me in the story is that the Italian investigators initially didn't have any evidence against her but decided that they were sure of her guilt due to utterly flawed analysis of her behaviour and body language when they watched her. After that they interpreted everything they saw on the basis of 'knowing' she was guilty.

It reminds me of the Madeline McCann story where the Portuguese police didn't really do enough initially because they apparently decided that the parents were involved in her disappearance. In both cases, its a person in authority misunderstanding the actions of a foreigner who by definition is going to behave differently to what they are used to seeing.

Now, I'm not saying that's not the case, however, most of what we've heard has been reported by media outlets that were biased. So, that means we really don't know the Truth.

The Italians "misinterpreted Amanda's body language." Fine. But what does that exactly mean? How do we know precisely upon which criteria they based such an analysis? What is the "right" way to interpret her? What is the rational basis for deriding the prosecutors suppositions? Here we in fact don't know much, or at any rate much useful information. And there are differences between different cultures in assessment of human comportment, that may lead to varied conclusions about it. Etcetera.

I try to be neutral, however, the media certainly didn't promote neutrality in any way. From what I read about this case in Italian, American and British dailies, means that I have absolutely know way of knowing anything. Absolutely nothing. And this is the problem. People among the "guilty-ists" and the "innocent-ists" alike, were made to believe that their conclusions were absolutely the right ones, based upon spurious and superficial analysis in my opinion, where fanfare and sentimentality played a leading role. Not good for justice, however you look at this case.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The Italians "misinterpreted Amanda's body language." Fine. But what does that exactly mean? How do we know precisely upon which criteria they based such an analysis? What is the "right" way to interpret her?

How about not trying to interpret someone's body language, and instead following the evidence? I know, a novel thought.

 

[rhubroma]

How about not trying to interpret someone's body language, and instead following the evidence? I know, a novel thought.

We have a case for which the scientific evidence was just enough to nail down Rudy, the black guy, or so it seems, but go figure not the others. At least on a second analysis. But this isn't what I'm debating. Nor am I on the guilty bandwagon here.

What I find so poor about this case, though, is that one culture got into a debunking war against another because it had radically opposing conclusions about the evidence and the behavior, which, like it or not, did come up and is relevant. And then the US state department stepped in. Never has a nation had so much pressure put on its judicial system by a foreign state. None of that was directed, by the way, either to Rudy or Raffaele.

Bottom line is that if Amanda and Raffaele weren't the other killers, then who was in that apartment at the time of the murder? Patrick Lumumba? That's initially what Amanda claimed, but he turned out to have an unquestionable alibi. Hence she lied. And if one is truly innocent then there is no need to incriminate someone else for a crime neither you, nor he committed. She also changed her story like five times. What for?

Was that because she was placed under too much pressure, as the Americans have claimed? I find that hard to believe. This makes me doubt that she had nothing to hide. Perhaps she didn't slit Meredith's throat, but I don't trust her, or Raffaele for that matter, nor that they are totally estranged from the crime. So frankly if they walk, then I think Rudy's case should be reexamined as well.

That Amanda was just this sweet, wholesome creature, whatever that means, as portrayed in the US press, and it was consequently impossible for her to have been caught up in such evil business: was the same kind of character assessment which the US press said was totally irrelevant to making a decision when coming from the other side in Italy, which produced a radically different portrait.