Andy Poster Boy

[TailWindHome]

Thats the beauty of riders like Horner and Schleck. They put skybots in an impossible situation where they will look like idiots no matter what they say.

Always with the name calling eh?

You asked if I think Andy was doping. My honest answer is I don't know.

But you can't have it both ways - Froome's a doper as he didn't show talent from an earlier age. Schleck shows incredible talent from an early age, owning the white jersey competition, but that just proves he was doping from an early age


Returning to the question to the OP, which was based on the OP's assumption that Andy doped (and was really, really good) then stopped doping (and is now really, really bad)....why would he have stopped?

Is it believable that his brother got caught, Andy freaked so stopped doping. His brother came back from the ban and got straight back on the doping horse. Andy meanwhile is hanging of the back as a laughing stock as he's 'found Jesus'???

 

[trevim]

Maybe he is the talented one!

Well he certainly is the professional one, regardless of doping.

 

[blackcat]

look no further to see how doping (specifically O2 vector doping) completely upended the natural hierarchy.

DNF @ criterium international.

joke. fraud. this guy supposedly "won" a TDF. he probably shouldn't even be a pro.

how about, he rides on just a little "help" now. But against a peloton, 100% or near enough, FULLY Charged.

serious flaw in your logical premise there bro

 

[blackcat]

dont have to go far to ask that Andy on VC Roubaix under Cyrille Guimard was a big time charger.

But seen as a big time talent.

When Jan decided to go to Bianchi when Team Coast falls over, instead of with Riis and CSC, and Bjarne was confident he had the signature of Jan, he signs up Andy and Frank, and Andy comes on as a neo 18 months later. Dare say, if Andy was not the prize, Frank would not be thrown into the bargain as the free steak knives.

(and Bianchi was basically the second iteration of Coast)

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Missed BC's sig earlier.

If that Lim quote is true, I really want to kick Al in the b*lls.

What a load!

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Andy's problems are more then just doping. He need to step back from the sport and get help.

This is quite clearly the case though ... doping doesn't get you from sparring with Contador to not being able to finish a single race, right?

 

[SundayRider]

This is quite clearly the case though ... doping doesn't get you from sparring with Contador to not being able to finish a single race, right?

Seems to me it is doping/mental and motivation.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Andy's problems are more then just doping. He need to step back from the sport and get help.

Absolutely. We are past the realm of the results simply being the difference between "clean Andy/dirty Andy" and into the 2010 Cobo realm. We know Cobo's medical history and deep-seated psychological issues that make making definitive judgements on clean Cobo/dirty Cobo nigh on impossible, and it seems like we're headed the same way with Andy.

 

[ralphbert]

Absolutely. We are past the realm of the results simply being the difference between "clean Andy/dirty Andy" and into the 2010 Cobo realm. We know Cobo's medical history and deep-seated psychological issues that make making definitive judgements on clean Cobo/dirty Cobo nigh on impossible, and it seems like we're headed the same way with Andy.

Yes exactly. To be successful in pro cycling you have to do what is necessary. As Armstrong learnt us, you have to put air in the bottles, water in the tires, and train real hard, oh yeah you have to dope too. Luckily being smart isn't required.

 

[vedrafjord]

So why did he stop doping?

I wouldn't be surprised if he had a few very dodgy passport readings, and was called in by Fat Pat and told to knock it off or face sanction. This must have felt like playing a computer game using cheat codes, then downloading an update and finding they don't work any more.

 

[therhodeo]

I have no doubt the guy was on something but I think his problems have more to do with him being a headcase.

 

[webbie146]

I wish Andy would just get on the Horner program already, he is so boring now

 

[zigmeister]

I think it is pretty safe to say, although we have no evidence, that Frank/Andy and of course Contador were all doped up during that TDF. Contador got popped of course.

But when you see the gamesmanship of their duals during the epic climbs, ala, Lance with guys during those years.

It is way to obvious how they just attack, let off the gas, attack, rinse/repeat etc...all the while, nobody is even close to them on the climbs while they play their doped performance gamesmanship.

Once Frank/Contador got popped, and guess what Bruyneel was brought up on charges, they all mysteriously for 2yrs had absolutely pathetic and average performances.

Guess what guys!!! 2 of the 3 are back in full epic performance mode again after laying low and letting the smoke clear....big surprise.

Xenon gas is right.

 

[Alpechraxler]

Xenon gas is right.

with Andy's lack of motivation you could think he inhales other stuff too.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

I think it is pretty safe to say, although we have no evidence, that Frank/Andy and of course Contador were all doped up during that TDF. Contador got popped of course.

But when you see the gamesmanship of their duals during the epic climbs, ala, Lance with guys during those years.

It is way to obvious how they just attack, let off the gas, attack, rinse/repeat etc...all the while, nobody is even close to them on the climbs while they play their doped performance gamesmanship.

Once Frank/Contador got popped, and guess what Bruyneel was brought up on charges, they all mysteriously for 2yrs had absolutely pathetic and average performances.

Guess what guys!!! 2 of the 3 are back in full epic performance mode again after laying low and letting the smoke clear....big surprise.

Xenon gas is right.

Wouldn't call Frank epic...

 

[Col Okey]

After the 2011 Tour de France I remember reading and hearing that speeds were down and how this was reassuring re possible doping so I thought I would look to see how the riders from that Tour have fared in the next two Tour's.

Cadel Evans 2011 1st 2012 7th @15'49" 2013 39th @1h30'14"

Andy Schleck 2011 2nd @1'34" 2012 DNS 2013 20th @41'46"

Frank Schleck 2011 3rd @2'30" 2012 DNF 2013 DNS

T Voeckler 2011 4th @3'20" 2012 26TH @1h4'41" 2013 65th @2h12'48"

A Contador 2011 5th @3'55" 2012 DNS 2013 4th @6'27"

S Sanchez 2011 6th @4'55" 2012 DNF 2013 DNS

D Cunego 2011 7th @6'05" 2012 DNS 2013 55th @1h59'38"

I Basso 2011 8th @7'23" 2012 25th @59'44" 2013 DNS

T Danielson 2011 9th @8'15" 2012 DNS 2013 60th 2h05'28"

J-C Peraud 2011 10th @10'11" 2012 44th @1h40'44" 2013 DNF

P Rolland 2011 11th @10'33" 2012 8th @16'26" 2013 24th 52'15"

R Taaramae 2011 12 11'29" 2012 36th 1h27'52" 2013 102nd 2h59'09"

So out of the top 12 riders in the Tour most people would accept as being one of the cleanER Tours of recent years only one rider has improved on his finishing position (Pierre Rolland 2012) but he still finished further back in terms of time to the winner, so does this mean that every rider who finished top 12 in that Tour was a doped up, rubbish rider who gave up doping in 2012(or should that be 20th August 2011)

 

[MrRoboto]

The 2011 Tour was a bit different than the subsequent tours though. That was one built for Andy to win. He still didn't though. Probably because he lacked the mental strength and extreme winner mentality most champions have. He still did show that he had *something* in him that tour, but I remember it more for his whining about attacking in the downhill, and always holding hands with his brother.

I'm guessing there are several reasons why he seems useless now -- And doping is one of them. But I think it's the mental bit that is the core of the problem.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Absolutely. We are past the realm of the results simply being the difference between "clean Andy/dirty Andy" and into the 2010 Cobo realm. We know Cobo's medical history and deep-seated psychological issues that make making definitive judgements on clean Cobo/dirty Cobo nigh on impossible, and it seems like we're headed the same way with Andy.

How the doping exacerbates the mental health issues is the big under-reported story in cycling, IMO. Hamilton is another great example.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

After the 2011 Tour de France I remember reading and hearing that speeds were down and how this was reassuring re possible doping so I thought I would look to see how the riders from that Tour have fared in the next two Tour's.

Cadel Evans 2011 1st 2012 7th @15'49" 2013 39th @1h30'14"

Andy Schleck 2011 2nd @1'34" 2012 DNS 2013 20th @41'46"

Frank Schleck 2011 3rd @2'30" 2012 DNF 2013 DNS

T Voeckler 2011 4th @3'20" 2012 26TH @1h4'41" 2013 65th @2h12'48"

A Contador 2011 5th @3'55" 2012 DNS 2013 4th @6'27"

S Sanchez 2011 6th @4'55" 2012 DNF 2013 DNS

D Cunego 2011 7th @6'05" 2012 DNS 2013 55th @1h59'38"

I Basso 2011 8th @7'23" 2012 25th @59'44" 2013 DNS

T Danielson 2011 9th @8'15" 2012 DNS 2013 60th 2h05'28"

J-C Peraud 2011 10th @10'11" 2012 44th @1h40'44" 2013 DNF

P Rolland 2011 11th @10'33" 2012 8th @16'26" 2013 24th 52'15"

R Taaramae 2011 12 11'29" 2012 36th 1h27'52" 2013 102nd 2h59'09"

So out of the top 12 riders in the Tour most people would accept as being one of the cleanER Tours of recent years only one rider has improved on his finishing position (Pierre Rolland 2012) but he still finished further back in terms of time to the winner, so does this mean that every rider who finished top 12 in that Tour was a doped up, rubbish rider who gave up doping in 2012(or should that be 20th August 2011)

Slight problem with the bolded.

 

[Clausfarre]

On Thursday the 17th it will be 1.000 days ago since he had his last win. 1.000 days!

P.S. Cancellara is also said to be like Master Of Puppets: starts with Battery. (sorry, sorry, sorry, read your signature 1,000 times & had to say it )

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Yeah and Voeckler's 2012 Tour wasn't exactly reassuring in terms of "cleanness" either ... despite finishing lower in GC

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Slight problem with the bolded.

You could argue as of 2012(?) his 2011 result was DSQ so technically he was not in the top 12.

 

[SundayRider]

How the doping exacerbates the mental health issues is the big under-reported story in cycling, IMO. Hamilton is another great example.

Exactly. If you are prone to such issues, then the murky world of doping, concealing things, lying, living a 'double life' is only going to make such problems 10 x worse.

 

[Digger]

Prozac is a very effective PED.

 

[gheizhwinder]

J-C Peraud 2011 10th @10'11" 2012 44th @1h40'44" 2013 DNF

To be fair, Peraud was 9th when he crashed out in the last week of the 2013 tour.