Another Pechstein, or again Pechstein?

[Cloxxki]

http://www.nu.nl/sport/2713533/duitse-schaatsster-verdacht-van-bloeddoping.html

Translate from Dutch if you can't read it.

Unnamed female german speed skater being investigated for possible blood doping, an Erfurt based doc also being investigated.

 

[sniper]

http://www.nu.nl/sport/2713533/duitse-schaatsster-verdacht-van-bloeddoping.html

Translate from Dutch if you can't read it.

Unnamed female german speed skater being investigated for possible blood doping, an Erfurt based doc also being investigated.

The doctor is a certain Andreas F.
He supposedly treated one iceskater (female) and (at least) one cyclist.

Something with UV radiation of the blood, but possibly also other (more conventional?) doping practices.

http://taz.de/Schwarzlicht-Blutdoping-aus-Thueringen/!85497/

btw, the iceskater is not Pechstein.

(I'm speculating it could be Annie Friesinger or Jenny Wolf)

 

[roundabout]

Also a cyclist (why not?) potentially involved.

Edit: too late.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

According to the original source, dradio.de, it is not Pechstein.

Susan

Edit: Nor does it specifically say that "a cyclist" is involved. The dradio story says that he is/was (now suspended) a doctor at an Olympic trainingsite which include speed skaters, cyclists and track and field athletes, and that he is being investigated for his treatments of "athletes from more than one sport".

 

[spalco]

Something with UV radiation of the blood, but possibly also other (more conventional?) doping practices.

That's the same bull**** Walter Mayer claimed he was doing in Salt Lake. Obvious lie is obvious.

 

[roundabout]

According to the original source, dradio.de, it is not Pechstein.

Susan

Edit: Nor does it specifically say that "a cyclist" is involved. The dradio story says that he is/was (now suspended) a doctor at an Olympic trainingsite which include speed skaters, cyclists and track and field athletes, and that he is being investigated for his treatments of "athletes from more than one sport".

Ok, "cyclists". And I did write "potentially involved".

Für den Bund Deutscher Radfahrer sagt Generalsekretär Martin Wolf, die NADA prüfe bereits, ob es bei Radsportlern Verstöße gegen die Antidoping-Bestimmungen gab.

Unless there's another way to read this quote.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

actually, I was not responding to you.

Für den Bund Deutscher Radfahrer sagt Generalsekretär Martin Wolf, die NADA prüfe bereits, ob es bei Radsportlern Verstöße gegen die Antidoping-Bestimmungen gab.

translates as:

For the BDR (GErman federation), general secretary martin wolf said that the NADA is already investigating whether cyclists violated the anti-doping regulations.

Susan

 

[alfiso]

May be? ;-(

http://www.afranke.de/sportmedizin.html

 

[Cobber]

Black light blood treatments?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/black-light-blood-treatments-in-germany

Anyone know how this works? Seems bizarre to me.....

 

[Merckx index]

The theory seems to be that the UV light changes the conformation of hemoglobin such that it gives up its oxygen to the tissues more easily (lower affinity). The tricky part is if oxygen has lower affinity for hemoglobin, it won’t be taken up by it in the lungs so easily. So the claim is further that UV treatment reduces the affinity for dissociation, but not for association—and that the change is long-lasting.

Possible, maybe, but AFAIK, there are no published studies documenting this. Also, the effect would have to be huge, since only a portion of blood is withdrawn and radiated. Unless—hey, if you’re going to speculate, why not?—the altered hemoglobin interacts with normal hemoglobin and alters that, the way prions in the brain do. And you thought only Contador had encounters with mad cows?

Seriously, it sounds like hype used to drum up business. Of course, if the business is legal it will probably do better, so we get claims like this:

At the center of the Austrian controversy is Walter Mayer,
who was banned from the Olympics after a 2002 doping scandal.
Mayer said his technique of radiating blood with ultraviolet
light was therapeutic and not
performance-enhancing.

Dr.Mas, I take it you would agree with this? According to you, it’s one or the other, right? So if you can find a therapeutic benefit, it must be legal?

This is where LA’s retirement really hurts the sport. If he were around now, he would have checked this out, and if it didn’t work, we would know, because he wouldn’t tell Tyler that he had gotten away with using it. I think it will be years before LA's contribution to evaluating new medical procedures will be fully appreciated. But we can wait, can't we, Polish?

http://www.redorbit.com/news/sports/402045/blood_doping_haunts_another_olympics/

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

When I first read these stories, all I could think of was "does this make them glow in the dark?"

Susan

 

[Cobber]

When I first read these stories, all I could think of was "does this make them glow in the dark?"

Susan

That would make doping controls easy!

Thanks for the reply and explanation Merckx index.

 

[Cobblestoned]

This practise is well known for health clinics and part of health and "wellness" therapys.
Of course for athletes under WADA code its a problem and not allowed to exchange and treat the blood.

There is a clinic at the Bodensee which offers those treatments and several other similiar ownblood-therapies.
They also offer rectal ozone anal-fumigation. Really.
Rektale Analbegasung mit Ozon.
Rektale Begasung mit Ozon: Dem Patienten wird mittels Einwegkatheter, der vorsichtig in den After eingeführt wird, 50-300ml Ozon-Sauerstoff-Gemisch langsam eingeblasen.
By help of a disposable catheter, which is gently inserted into the patient's anus, 50-300ml ozone-oxygen mixture is slowly blown in.

Was always good for a laugh during the Ullrich-wars. When someone had a jour sans, he was recommended to have a anal-funmigation.

 

[sublimit]

This practise is well known for health clinics and part of health and "wellness" therapys.
Of course for athletes under WADA code its a problem and not allowed to exchange and treat the blood.

There is a clinic at the Bodensee which offers those treatments and several other similiar ownblood-therapies.
They also offer rectal ozone anal-fumigation. Really.
Rektale Analbegasung mit Ozon.
Rektale Begasung mit Ozon: Dem Patienten wird mittels Einwegkatheter, der vorsichtig in den After eingeführt wird, 50-300ml Ozon-Sauerstoff-Gemisch langsam eingeblasen.
By help of a disposable catheter, which is gently inserted into the patient's anus, 50-300ml ozone-oxygen mixture is slowly blown in.

Was always good for a laugh during the Ullrich-wars. When someone had a jour sans, he was recommended to have a anal-funmigation.

Sounds like something the CIA would do to a detainee circa 2007.

I can think of several Chelsea FC players I would recommend for that style of treatment BTW - Just make it a dummy pill and no medicine and make the pill twice the size..

 

[masking_agent]

Ultraviolet light as dope ?

FRANKFURT, Germany (AP)—A German speedskater is under a doping investigation for allegedly using ultraviolet light to enhance the oxygen flow in her blood and other athletes may be involved.

The German anti-doping agency refuses to identify the athlete. She has been under investigation since May.

The athlete came to the attention of investigators during an inquiry into a doctor in the Olympic training center in the city of Erfurt. The doctor extracted blood from athletes, treated it with ultraviolet light and then injected it back into the athletes. The procedure is illegal.

Cyclists and track and field athletes may also have been involved.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=ap-dopingprobe

Ultraviolet light as dope ???

 

[Velodude]

FRANKFURT, Germany (AP)—A German speedskater is under a doping investigation for allegedly using ultraviolet light to enhance the oxygen flow in her blood and other athletes may be involved.

The German anti-doping agency refuses to identify the athlete. She has been under investigation since May.

The athlete came to the attention of investigators during an inquiry into a doctor in the Olympic training center in the city of Erfurt. The doctor extracted blood from athletes, treated it with ultraviolet light and then injected it back into the athletes. The procedure is illegal.

Cyclists and track and field athletes may also have been involved.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=ap-dopingprobe

Ultraviolet light as dope ???

That issue was recently discussed in this specific thread.

 

[masking_agent]

oh okay.. thanks.. wow, you guys are really up to speed in the clinic

 

[Cobblestones]

Definitely a cyclist involved. It's out there.

PS can we merge all those threads about UV treatment with this one, since it's really one story.

 

[Cloxxki]

Don't rush our German friends please. Olympics are in 2 years, and a little bit. Might that be significant in the seeming hold-up?

 

[L'arriviste]

More info in today's Sueddeutsche Zeitung, confirming that Andreas Franke claims only to have used the UV process as a bacteria killer.

However this does nothing to explain why he was doing transfusions when they're clearly banned.

Doping expert Werner Franke (no relation) finds that ignorance hard to believe.

 

[Cobblestones]

More info in today's Sueddeutsche Zeitung, confirming that Andreas Franke claims only to have used the UV process as a bacteria killer.

However this does nothing to explain why he was doing transfusions when they're clearly banned.

Doping expert Werner Franke (no relation) finds that ignorance hard to believe.

Extracting blood and then re-injecting is a doping violation. Even when the whole procedure is autologous and performed within a day. Even if the treatment with UV light has no performance enhancing effect.

I have to agree, I find the ignorance stunning. And of course, now I really want to know who the cyclist is. Probably not a pro. The skater allegedly is a small fish, too.

Now the method seems obscure to me. I cannot see how UV treatment of blood should have a performance enhancing effect. But apparently the method has been used in the former GDR since around 1980. And you cannot argue against the results of GDR athletes throughout the 1980s.

 

[belcredi]

Good afternoon to everybody. Thank you for all the information!
I have found are some experimental studies published in the '80s in Germany, then nothing more. Effect on free radicals etc: the same stuff as for ozon hemotherapy. Placebo. Very doubtful effect on performance, but 100% prohibited (at least for M2-3 of the WADA list).


Zelck U, Karnstedt U, Gänsicke FW, Wiesner S, Lange P. [Mechanism of action ofultraviolet irradiation of blood: on the possible role of the anti-oxidative
enzyme system]. Vasa Suppl. 1991

Wiesner S, Frick G, Gänsicke FW, Linke A, Wiesner A. ["Studies of the effectiveness of ultraviolet irradiation of blood of patients with arterial occlusive disease" by F. Richard and R. Zabel-Langhennig]. Z Arztl
Fortbild (Jena). 1988

Scherf HP, Wiesner S, Lerche D, Bäumler H. [Characterization of the effect of
retransfusion of UV-irradiated autologous blood--synoptic examination of
clinical, metabolic, rheologic and hemodynamic results in patients with arterial occlusive disease. Z Gesamte Inn Med. 1983

 

[Bavarianrider]

There's a list of 28 athletes who are involved.
German television leaked three names an hour ago.
Kittel, Nils Schumann and Pechstein

 

[roundabout]

http://www.sportschau.de/sp/weitere/news201201/29/erfurt_sportschau.jsp

 

[sniper]

http://www.sportschau.de/sp/weitere/news201201/29/erfurt_sportschau.jsp

Thanx for the link! Quite interesting. This is moving forward splendidly.

Unter den Sportlerinnen und Sportlern vor allem aus dem Radsport, Eisschnelllauf sowie der Leichtathletik befinden sich laut ARD-Informationen Top-Athleten wie die erfolgreichste deutsche Winterolympionikin Claudia Pechstein sowie der Leichtathletik-Olympiasieger über 800-Meter Nils Schumann. Eines der größten deutschen Rad-Talente, der 23-jährige Thüringer Marcel Kittel, soll diese Blutbehandlungen auch von dem Arzt empfangen haben. Selbst ein Spitzenathlet aus dem Ausland ist dabei: Der Olympiazweite von 1996 und mehrfache Vize-Weltmeister im Weitsprung, James Beckford aus Jamaika. Aber auch erfolgreiche Nachwuchssportler, von denen mehrere zum Zeitpunkt der Blutbestrahlung noch minderjährig waren, sollen von dem Arzt behandelt worden sein.

also underaged athletes involved.
secretly tapped phonecalls from Pechstein to a friend in 2009 seem to have brought the case to light.
in that particular phonecall, pechstein tells her friend about the method, and that it's probably illegal but that it can't be traced.