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Anyone else fall asleep watching the Tour yet?

Jul 17, 2009
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I find it tough to watch this 3 week tempo ride to Ventoux.

Typically I like watching bikes go up hill as much as I like riding bikes up hill.

They over (or rather under) did it with this profile.

c-
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Let's face it, the Tour starts Sunday. Well, hopefully.

I think the designers of this years tour started out right with the ITT. But then it seemed to fizzle.

The TTT should be thrown out. Or limit the losses to no more than a minute.

All the Pyrenees stages (3) should have been mt top finishes. Or at least more stages there.

The sprinters stages seemed to become France's big opportunity to get some glory in a breakaway. Throw them a few scraps...it is their race.

The race thus far seems to lack pizzazz, flair, spirit!
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Robert Merivel said:
Let's face it, the Tour starts Sunday. Well, hopefully.

I think the designers of this years tour started out right with the ITT. But then it seemed to fizzle.

The TTT should be thrown out. Or limit the losses to no more than a minute.

All the Pyrenees stages (3) should have been mt top finishes. Or at least more stages there.

The sprinters stages seemed to become France's big opportunity to get some glory in a breakaway. Throw them a few scraps...it is their race.

The race thus far seems to lack pizzazz, flair, spirit!

I agree with everything you said except you can't have all 3 stages mountain top finishes as you have to give some opportunity on descent to gain/gain back some time. I liked the 2007 route as it was exciting but the route had something there for all types of riders.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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I have fallen asleep everyday watching it hence I am wide awake now.
plenty of attacks early in the day then the boys ride round like a bunch of clubmen to nervous to attack or get dropped.

severe nacolepsy is setting in
 
Jul 17, 2009
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the no limit losses in the TTT is a problem.
Cadel was toast after that. Dude is over
The tour deserves more than 3 Mtn Top finishes in a 3 week span IMHO

and the second week needs some sort of TT
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Boeing said:
the no limit losses in the TTT is a problem.
Cadel was toast after that. Dude is over
The tour deserves more than 3 Mtn Top finishes in a 3 week span IMHO

and the second week needs some sort of TT

The ttt is a great discipline to watch and to get rid of it is wrong but to make a limit on length and difficulty of time would make it fair as the losses would be mostly insiginificant. I agree that the tour deserves more than 3 mtn top finishes, but not 3 in a row as we don't want to break all these riders.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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I like the TTT and often wonder why some teams don't focus on it going in. Teams with GC contenders too. Clearly Lotto didnt care about it

some adjustment is needed

another thread suggested a mtn top TTT. interesting
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Boeing said:
I like the TTT and often wonder why some teams don't focus on it going in. Teams with GC contenders too. Clearly Lotto didnt care about it

some adjustment is needed

another thread suggested a mtn top TTT. interesting

MTN top ttt - ridculous
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Yep that's pretty much it

Boeing said:
I find it tough to watch this 3 week tempo ride to Ventoux.

Typically I like watching bikes go up hill as much as I like riding bikes up hill.

They over (or rather under) did it with this profile.

c-

Pro riders get more cautious and conservative every year and this race shows that off like no other. We had 3 stages in the Pyrenees won by(with due respect) riders who have no business winning Tour mountain stages. When did the Tour and many other races become all about doing the absolute least? You're right, Boeing, it's a 3 week training ride with a race up Ventoux at the end. The only thing is it won't be a race up Ventoux, it'll be a race up a small part of Ventoux because apparently even a stage with only one real mtn in it is too much for these guys. I foolishly posted after the TTT that the bright side is the time gaps would force riders to attack. I guess even the prospect of losing the biggest race in the world isn't enough to get these guys off their butts and DO SOMETHING!!!!
You know I'm only 45 and I can't tell you how much I hate sounding like a grumpy old man gassing on about the old days. But you know what? It's true, the old days where better. Even as recently as the late 80's the racing was far better. Watch, for example, the 89 Worlds on youtube or wherever and see if it bears even the slightest resemblance to todays racing. I love this sport but lately it just makes me want to cry.
On the brighter side, I had a 90yr old woman today call me "a whole lotta man". So I got that goin for me.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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marinoni said:
Pro riders get more cautious and conservative every year and this race shows that off like no other. We had 3 stages in the Pyrenees won by(with due respect) riders who have no business winning Tour mountain stages. When did the Tour and many other races become all about doing the absolute least? You're right, Boeing, it's a 3 week training ride with a race up Ventoux at the end. The only thing is it won't be a race up Ventoux, it'll be a race up a small part of Ventoux because apparently even a stage with only one real mtn in it is too much for these guys. I foolishly posted after the TTT that the bright side is the time gaps would force riders to attack. I guess even the prospect of losing the biggest race in the world isn't enough to get these guys off their butts and DO SOMETHING!!!!
You know I'm only 45 and I can't tell you how much I hate sounding like a grumpy old man gassing on about the old days. But you know what? It's true, the old days where better. Even as recently as the late 80's the racing was far better. Watch, for example, the 89 Worlds on youtube or wherever and see if it bears even the slightest resemblance to todays racing. I love this sport but lately it just makes me want to cry.
On the brighter side, I had a 90yr old woman today call me "a whole lotta man". So I got that goin for me.

I enjoy watching sprint finishes but i agree that GC men sitting on and watching others take the mountain stages is absurd. I think the TTT was great because it was a very technical course instead of the freeway drag race that characterizes most ttt's.
There is no excuse that Rabobank & Silence have not tried multiple attacks since then. The writing was on the wall when no one wanted to help Col chase. Every team with a sprinter should have folded their tent right then and there. It showed what the DS were all thinking, we only want to work when we are SURE we can succeed. You don't win that way. NOthing ventured nothing gained...
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Boeing said:
maybe a short cat one climb with a wild descent into the flats TTT

Regardless Evans would be out so i understand your reaction

A MTN ttt is just stupid. Don't put in stages just for tv ratings. C'mon that's plain ridicuolus. My ttt point has nothing to do with Cadel Evans. In 03-05 the ttt was ver significant to the end result as many guys were forced out of contention. A ttt above 30km is ridicoulous. It closes the race up too early and is too descisive in that stage of the tour. The tdf is about the best in the itt's and the climbs. Either remove ttt or make the ttt's short so the time differences are insignificant.
 
People won't attack because teams are too strong these days. Let's say, for the sake of absurd argument, that the whole Silence-Lotto team attacked on the Tourmalet. On the lower slopes, they gun it and get a gap, like they are team trialing up the mountain. Only Astana chases and everyone else who can hold the pace follows. It is Astana versus Silence. Who burns out first? Silence does. Their riders fall away, the pace drops, and in the end they are caught by team Astana, which may be fatigued but not as fatigued as Evans.

If Evans' whole team has not got a chance then what chance does a solo attack from Evans have? Evans gets to ride solo at FTP while Astana riders take turns riding at 110% of their FTP. That just is not going to work.

Ideally Silence, Saxo, and Cervelo would collude on a climb to set a pace so high that everyone but the GC contenders is burned off. Even then the remaining group is four Astanas (maybe only three now), a contender from each of the other teams, and a handful of climbing specialists. The GC contenders then take their chances, knowing that those chances are slim because the Astanas have more legit contenders than the other teams' GC men combined. That is a crap shoot with low odds, and when a rider craps out he drops from the top ten in Paris. It is safer, and perhaps a smarter financial choice, to just take your top ten and hope things turn out different the next year.

I personally blame doping for the strength and recovery ability of the teams. To compensate, teams should be smaller. Use six man teams and see what the difference is. Even a team like Astana would be forced to use Kloden and Levi if they wanted to protect Contador and Armstrong.

Dang, I am rambling here.
 
Jul 16, 2009
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yes FULLY agreed. fair play to HH and Nikki. great wins but the last week has been a non event
After a fantastic first week. Dull dull dulll

the tour is the fight for GC, each day is an element in that fight- not a classic.
the green jersey shouldnt get top billing and a non climber shouldnt finish 6 mins 50 up on a raging peloton- sorry sleeping peleton

there hasnt been a fight


dull dull dull
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Believe it or not, there are people out there - fans, not semi-pros or top amateurs, just ordinary 'fans' - who think it's been pretty exciting so far. I've been having a running discussion with my lady friend in the US on this very subject. She's happy with what she's seen, I keep telling her she's got to be kidding....:rolleyes:
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Mountain ITT

Uphill ITTs are often included in the grand tours. A few years ago, le Tour had an ITT go up L'Alpe D Huez (oh horrible spelling:sorry), and it was pretty cool except for the gazillion screaming fans interfering with the race, spitting on the riders, etc. The Giro had a really cool (but controversial) uphill ITT two years that used a hard packed dirt (!) surface. It was also watched by a large number of drunken tifosi, but a huge contingent of armed military-looking police were also present to keep order. The riders didn't like the course, which they saw as gimmicky, but I liked it. In fact, I think the Giro is very innovative with its course selection and design and is never boring. But this year's Tour is pretty standard fare as I see it. ASO is very traditional in its approach to design (and very motivated by money as they have a money making machine), so they are loathe to try something new.
 
I'm almost wishing for Bugno to come back, who was nicknamed Mr. "we'll see." At least he with this most vague response didn't promiss anything.

This crew is always waiting to see what will happen. It rains, it's cold, several climbs and the motto of the day is, well, "we'll see." In this way, captains, vices and gregarios nuetralized another stage.

It's true that the course sucks, but these guys prefer not to take any calculated risks and the result that what we see is terribly monotonous. The order of the day: It's better not to risk.

Maybe the guy shooting at the pack, had a few too many glasses of the local Gewurtztramainer and thought about rousing the peleton? It's just perverse to say, let alone think, but the action needs to get going.

PS: I hope they catch the ******* who pulled the (dangerous) prank, and throw him in the slammer.
 
The combination of virtually no mountaintop finishes + relatively long TTT has been deadly. Huge time gaps were established in the TTT and the race locked into a solid defense-pattern that hasn't been broken yet. I like the TTT as a spectacle but there's no way it deserves to play such a huge role in locking down the GC early on. Somehow the Giro always does it right -- a short, early TTT creates a cool spectacle for the fans and a good photo-op for the sponsors, but by early in the second week it's been entirely forgotten and the real GC battle is in full swing.

Defenders of long TTTs always say, "but it emphasizes that cycling is a team sport." Come on: the REAL stages already emphasize that well enough; it's hard enough for a guy like Evans, who is strong but on a weak team, to win the Tour -- and if you add a TTT it basically becomes impossible. It's like a 2 or 3 minute penalty for guys who are already facing an uphill battle as it is.

It amuses me to remember that when they added the special time-loss-limit system in 2005 people cried that it was part of some evil French anti-Armstrong conspiracy. Four years later, Armstrong returns, and the organizers bring back an old-fashioned TTT. Where's that evil French anti-Armstrong conspiracy when you need it??
 
Jul 17, 2009
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yetanothergreenworld said:
It amuses me to remember that when they added the special time-loss-limit system in 2005 people cried that it was part of some evil French anti-Armstrong conspiracy. Four years later, Armstrong returns, and the organizers bring back an old-fashioned TTT. Where's that evil French anti-Armstrong conspiracy when you need it??
They're at the side of the road, loading their pellet rifles :p
 
Jul 18, 2009
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Boring, Boring, Boring....

I agree that this is the dullest tour for years. One element I feel is responsible I haven't seen anyone mention yet is race radios- far too much control for the DS and sucks the life right out of the race.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
A MTN ttt is just stupid. Don't put in stages just for tv ratings. C'mon that's plain ridicuolus. My ttt point has nothing to do with Cadel Evans. In 03-05 the ttt was ver significant to the end result as many guys were forced out of contention. A ttt above 30km is ridicoulous. It closes the race up too early and is too descisive in that stage of the tour. The tdf is about the best in the itt's and the climbs. Either remove ttt or make the ttt's short so the time differences are insignificant.

+1

Another solution for the TTT would be to have a time loss cap of say 1 minute. 1 min is still a good amount of time for a GC rider's team to race for, while losing 1 min won't eliminate another GC rider from the overall victory. Max distance should be 40k.