Question Are disk brakes too good?

[benlondon]

I was a pretty early adopter of disk brakes on my road bike. Generally I've loved them. However 2 weeks ago I had an emergency braking situation. A car overtook a small group of us and almost immediately stopped where the road narrowed.
We all braked hard but I was on a disk brake bike. My wheels skidded on the wet road & I went straight into the back of a jeep breaking 6 ribs and an L2 vertebrae not to mention the rear window of the jeep I went into.
My two companions on caliper brakes managed to avoid a crash.
When you're stopping in an emergency you don't have time to think 'I better modulate my braking to avoid skidding on the wet road'. Frankly it's made me nervous about riding again on a wet road on that bike when eventually I'm allowed to ride again (8 weeks from accident says the doc)

 

[Valanga]

When you're stopping in an emergency you don't have time to think 'I better modulate my braking to avoid skidding on the wet road'.

Well, it is quite essential though.

I used to write a motorcycle without ABS, and it's the same there: you do not want to just slam down the brakes - not even in an emergency.
It was an essential part of my "motorcycle training": learn how to brake. First brake more with the rear brake, and as pressure moves to the front wheel, brake more with the front brake and less with the rear.
And you try that over and over again, until you master it and it goes automatic.

You'd have to do the same on your bike.

 

[jmdirt]

I was a pretty early adopter of disk brakes on my road bike. Generally I've loved them. However 2 weeks ago I had an emergency braking situation. A car overtook a small group of us and almost immediately stopped where the road narrowed.
We all braked hard but I was on a disk brake bike. My wheels skidded on the wet road & I went straight into the back of a jeep breaking 6 ribs and an L2 vertebrae not to mention the rear window of the jeep I went into.
My two companions on caliper brakes managed to avoid a crash.
When you're stopping in an emergency you don't have time to think 'I better modulate my braking to avoid skidding on the wet road'. Frankly it's made me nervous about riding again on a wet road on that bike when eventually I'm allowed to ride again (8 weeks from accident says the doc)

First, I wish you a speedy recovery!

I agree with Valanga: Rider error. I ride 99% dirt and rarely lock skid even in an emergency stop (like a dog running across the trial yesterday).

Your friends might not have locked up because they modulated their breaks correctly, it may have noting to do with rim vs. disc. If I grabbed a handful of brakes on my rim brake road bike it would skid easily especially on a wet road. Road tires have a very small contact patch so the coefficient of friction is not on your side when its wet.

I grew up riding and racing dirt bikes, have owned several street bikes as well, and have an enduro now (no ABS bike yet). I was riding with the local Ninja club one time coming back into town, and just happened to be the point rider. The POS metal box in front of us suddenly slammed on their breaks, I was able to come to a stop about 2" from them while the rider behind me ( a full bike length+) did a locked up, side slide directly into the car. Was it their brakes?

*When the police asked the driver why they stopped in the middle of the road...they dropped their phone while texting!!

Hopefully you'll be back on the bike soon!

 

[Joannewagner]

I just want to say that first of all I'm sorry to hear about your accident. While disk brakes are widely considered to be a significant improvement over traditional rim brakes in terms of stopping power, it's important to remember that they can still skid on wet roads, just like any other brake system. In any braking situation, it's important to modulate your braking to ensure that your wheels don't lock up, regardless of whether you're using disk brakes or rim brakes. If you're feeling nervous about riding in wet conditions, you may consider taking a cycling skills course to build your confidence and learn more about safe braking techniques.

 

[Julieanntabb]

I was a pretty early adopter of disk brakes on my road bike. Generally I've loved them. However 2 weeks ago I had an emergency braking situation. A car overtook a small group of us and almost immediately stopped where the road narrowed.
We all braked hard but I was on a disk brake bike. My wheels skidded on the wet road & I went straight into the back of a jeep breaking 6 ribs and an L2 vertebrae not to mention the rear window of the jeep I went into.
My two companions on caliper brakes managed to avoid a crash.
When you're stopping in an emergency you don't have time to think 'I better modulate my braking to avoid skidding on the wet road'. Frankly it's made me nervous about riding again on a wet road on that bike when eventually I'm allowed to ride again (8 weeks from accident says the doc)

First Of all I'm sorry to hear about your accident. Skidding on wet roads can be a risk for any type of brake system, not just disc brakes. Factors such as tire pressure, tire tread, road surface, and rider behavior all play a role in how well a bike stops in wet conditions.
It's also important to note that emergency braking situations can be unpredictable and challenging to handle, regardless of the type of brake system. In such situations, it's important to maintain control of the bike and apply the brakes in a way that is safe for you and others.
If you have concerns about riding in wet conditions with disc brakes, consider seeking the advice of a professional mechanic or bike fit specialist who can help you optimize your brake system for maximum safety and performance. Rebaid For Sellers

 

[Unchained]

I hope you get well.. Fast!! I skid and slide using rim and disc but mostly because unlike Dirt..I ride majority road and from years of no climbing and 99% criterium , using the rear brake only was what I did to subtly shave a little speed off w body and bike mass in front of the brake.. So just a feathery touch gets you to slow down enough.. I often don't know why I have a front brake..

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhe6qE2ULW4

 

[The GCW]

To Me,

Dura Ace caliper brakes work very well on the road bike and it seems like disc brakes which are on My mountain bike would be overkill on a road bike.

For road bikes, someone who has poor strength in their hands and or fingers may need or benefit from disc brakes. & Disc brakes are almost essential on mountain bikes.

Other than that, You don’t want disc brakes.
*They cost more, weigh more, are more difficult to maintain etc.

-I’ve never climbed a pass, got to the top and said, I wish My bike weighed more.
-Caliper brakes are right out in the open and most people can maintain them, but most people need to take disc brakes to a shop pro to maintain those. -Simplicity.
-They cost more; the bike industry is cashing in.

-0- I further don’t care for the way the bike industry has marketed them and eliminated the choices for people buying bikes. The marketing feels a bit predatory from predatory bike companies. Like going into one of those bike shops where the only things they sell are Specialized products… -One way to compete is to eliminate the competition.

 

[Cookster15]

To Me,

Dura Ace caliper brakes work very well on the road bike and it seems like disc brakes which are on My mountain bike would be overkill on a road bike.

For road bikes, someone who has poor strength in their hands and or fingers may need or benefit from disc brakes. & Disc brakes are almost essential on mountain bikes.

Other than that, You don’t want disc brakes.
*They cost more, weigh more, are more difficult to maintain etc.

-I’ve never climbed a pass, got to the top and said, I wish My bike weighed more.
-Caliper brakes are right out in the open and most people can maintain them, but most people need to take disc brakes to a shop pro to maintain those. -Simplicity.
-They cost more; the bike industry is cashing in.

-0- I further don’t care for the way the bike industry has marketed them and eliminated the choices for people buying bikes. The marketing feels a bit predatory from predatory bike companies. Like going into one of those bike shops where the only things they sell are Specialized products… -One way to compete is to eliminate the competition.

I agree. Disc brakes on road bikes should be a case study at university for anyone studying marketing. The industry decided it could make more money and choice was removed. In cycling there is also a tendency for people to want whatever is the latest equipment - even if it isn't really better? So, we are part of the problem.

I also agree that the main beneficiaries of discs are people with poor strength or arthritis.

But on the OPs, misfortune, I do think discs allow for more predictable modulation? So, in an emergency on wet roads you are less likely to lock up compared to rim brakes?

 

[froze]

Disk brakes are not any better or worse than rim brakes. Disk brakes are a bit better when it's wet outside, but they still have to squeegee the water off the rotors first before gripping, it's just that the rotors are much smaller in diameter than a rim is so it happens quicker. But on dry pavement they're the same because braking action is all about the tire's adhesion to the road, I don't care what anyone says, that is the science, it's the same with cars. Adhesion has variables, such as the tire quality itself, psi in the tire, weight being exerted upon the tire, the type of road, temperature, weight transfer, speed, etc. Of course, you could have a pair of cheap flexy rim brake calipers with cheap crappy pads that could affect the braking ability, but I doubt many of us are riding on Walmart brand bikes. This also indicates that if your brake pads are bad, regardless of the type of brake you use, you could have issues with stopping.

What makes people think that disk are better is the smooth fast action that occurs, making it feel like they're better, but they are not.

I copied this from a website about cars but the science is the same:

"Most modern passenger cars are equipped with electronic safety aids to maximize braking potential, the most important of which is the anti-lock braking system (ABS), which prevents your wheels from locking under hard braking and allows you to retain control over the steering in an emergency. When ABS is activated, it tells the onboard systems that your wheel has stopped rotating and that you have exceeded the maximum stopping force of the tyre. Your brake may be capable of applying more pressure, but the tyre has lost grip and more pressure serves no purpose. In other words, your stopping distance is limited by the tyre. Experts agree that traction coefficient is the principal function of braking distance. You require enough friction between the road surface and the tyres to bring the car to a standstill after braking. The higher the traction coefficient the shorter the braking distance."

This stuff applies 100% for bicycles, no amount of screaming will change the science.

Because this sort of thing always brings up non constructive arguing I will bow out of such arguing so as not to get banned from this forum.

 

[Moss]

Personally, I prefer rim brakes; although I do have one bike with hydraulic disc brakes. basically it's a personal choice and preference ..

 

[jmdirt]

Disk brakes are not any better or worse than rim brakes. Disk brakes are a bit better when it's wet outside, but they still have to squeegee the water off the rotors first before gripping, it's just that the rotors are much smaller in diameter than a rim is so it happens quicker. But on dry pavement they're the same because braking action is all about the tire's adhesion to the road, I don't care what anyone says, that is the science, it's the same with cars. Adhesion has variables, such as the tire quality itself, psi in the tire, weight being exerted upon the tire, the type of road, temperature, weight transfer, speed, etc. Of course, you could have a pair of cheap flexy rim brake calipers with cheap crappy pads that could affect the braking ability, but I doubt many of us are riding on Walmart brand bikes. This also indicates that if your brake pads are bad, regardless of the type of brake you use, you could have issues with stopping.

What makes people think that disk are better is the smooth fast action that occurs, making it feel like they're better, but they are not.

I copied this from a website about cars but the science is the same:

"Most modern passenger cars are equipped with electronic safety aids to maximize braking potential, the most important of which is the anti-lock braking system (ABS), which prevents your wheels from locking under hard braking and allows you to retain control over the steering in an emergency. When ABS is activated, it tells the onboard systems that your wheel has stopped rotating and that you have exceeded the maximum stopping force of the tyre. Your brake may be capable of applying more pressure, but the tyre has lost grip and more pressure serves no purpose. In other words, your stopping distance is limited by the tyre. Experts agree that traction coefficient is the principal function of braking distance. You require enough friction between the road surface and the tyres to bring the car to a standstill after braking. The higher the traction coefficient the shorter the braking distance."

This stuff applies 100% for bicycles, no amount of screaming will change the science.

Because this sort of thing always brings up non constructive arguing I will bow out of such arguing so as not to get banned from this forum.

Its not the 'science of adhesion', but rather the coefficient of friction (which the quote you include eludes to).

As has been discussed ad nauseam, all brakes can make a tire skid, but that isn't the end goal though, control is. As to the OP, my assertion was that it wasn't that their brakes were too good, but rather that they didn't use their brakes correctly.

 

[JohnCraft]

It's understandable that this experience has made you nervous about riding on wet roads with your disc brake bike in the future. While disc brakes generally offer better stopping power and modulation than rim brakes, they can require more skill and technique to use effectively in certain situations.

Here are some tips that may help you use your disc brakes more effectively and avoid skidding in the future:

1. Anticipate braking situations: Try to anticipate potential hazards or situations that may require sudden braking, such as intersections, blind corners, or areas with poor visibility. This will give you more time to prepare for braking and help you avoid having to make sudden stops.
2. Apply gradual, progressive braking: Instead of squeezing the brake lever hard and suddenly, apply gradual pressure to the brake lever to slow down gradually. This will help you maintain control and avoid skidding.
3. Use both brakes: Use both the front and rear brakes together to distribute braking force and help you maintain control. However, be careful not to apply too much force to the front brake, which can cause the front wheel to lock up and result in a skid.
4. Adjust your brake pads: Make sure your brake pads are properly aligned and have adequate clearance from the rotor. Worn or misaligned brake pads can reduce braking performance and cause skidding.
5. Practice braking techniques: Practice braking in a controlled environment, such as an empty parking lot, to improve your braking technique and build confidence. Start at low speeds and gradually increase your speed as you become more comfortable.

Remember, the key to effective braking is to be aware of your surroundings, anticipate potential hazards, and apply gradual pressure to the brake lever to slow down gradually. With practice and experience, you can learn to use your disc brakes effectively and safely in a variety of conditions.

 

[Black Betsy]

Can't loathe them enough! Thankfully I have bikes with proper rim brakes and no brakes at all.
Now my all energy goes to find a wayof replacing them on my bikes that use them Ordered new fork for 2 of them
and I will drill the fork of the 3rd one and add long reach brake calipers (from my beloved VO).