Are power meters helping dopers stay undetected?

[Darryl Webster]

Could power meters helping dopers stay undetected?

Just musing to myself when it occured to me that with , it apears, most (all?) of the peloton using power meters during races could it be the case that some may be using the meters as a bit of a "brake"?

Knowing the work being done to calculate with ever increasing accuracy a riders output and knowing that theres a physiogical limit on Watts/Kilo ( not everyones agreed on what this is but there estimates seem not to be a mile apart) is just the kind of info that might help a rider limit there effort.
This in no way negates the benifit of the doping accept in the all out effort, which is only a small part of most races.

Any thoughts peeps?

 

[Cerberus]

Just musing to myself when it occured to me that with , it apears, most (all?) of the peloton using power meters during races could it be the case that some may be using the meters as a bit of a "brake"?

Knowing the work being done to calculate with ever increasing accuracy a riders output and knowing that theres a physiogical limit on Watts/Kilo ( not everyones agreed on what this is but there estimates seem not to be a mile apart) is just the kind of info that might help a rider limit there effort.
This in no way negates the benifit of the doping accept in the all out effort, which is only a small part of most races.

Any thoughts peeps?

Edit: Perhaps a better thread tittle might be below the radar?

No, they're not helping dopers stay undetected. You can't be sanctioned based on performance alone and riders want to win. No way in hell does Andy Schleck slow down on the Tourmalet or in the final ITT to avoid suspicion.

 

[python]

it's not the use of power meters but the public manipulation of the power data that help dopers.

im talking about cases like floyd and lim when floyd gave him the 'permission' to publish his tdf watts daily whilst later it turns out lim was nothing but a front and a facilitator/helper of floyd's blood transfusions.

power data itself has too many uncertainties to implicate of doping.

 

[Darryl Webster]

No, they're not helping dopers stay undetected. You can't be sanctioned based on performance alone and riders want to win. No way in hell does Andy Schleck slow down on the Tourmalet or in the final ITT to avoid suspicion.

I realise that Cerberus. As im understanding it and im not pointing any fingers cus my understanding is far from complete, its not about max wattages but sustained efforts that point to suspitous FTP`s.
By being aware of this is beyond credibilty leval could it be the case that via telimetrics team directors could montor and inform via the riders team radio if a riders sustained effort are looking suspect.
If not now, its certainly something that I could envisage happening at a future stage.
Though its sounds overly complex with the measures riders and team directors are known to be prepared to go little can be ruled out.
With regards team radios, does any one know if the the signals are scrambled or are the public or Chief Commisaire able to eves drop , as I think is the case with Formula1?

 

[redtreviso]

I realise that Cerberus. As im understanding it and im not pointing any fingers cus my understanding is far from complete, its not about max wattages but sustained efforts that point to suspitous FTP`s.
By being aware of this is beyond credibilty leval could it be the case that via telimetrics team directors could montor and inform via the riders team radio if a riders sustained effort are looking suspect.
If not now, its certainly something that I could envisage happening at a future stage.
Though its sounds overly complex with the measures riders and team directors are known to be prepared to go little can be ruled out.
With regards team radios, does any one know if the the signals are scrambled or are the public or Chief Commisaire able to eves drop , as I think is the case with Formula1?

It is a reasonable question....If a rider blasts up Alp d'Huez at 700 watts it would definitely cause them a lot of trouble. Does Schmuck and Contador look at their power numbers and call it a truce when they have both reached their highest believable numbers? I doubt it.

 

[ManInFull]

Just musing to myself when it occured to me that with , it apears, most (all?) of the peloton using power meters during races could it be the case that some may be using the meters as a bit of a "brake"?

Knowing the work being done to calculate with ever increasing accuracy a riders output and knowing that theres a physiogical limit on Watts/Kilo ( not everyones agreed on what this is but there estimates seem not to be a mile apart) is just the kind of info that might help a rider limit there effort.
This in no way negates the benifit of the doping accept in the all out effort, which is only a small part of most races.

Any thoughts peeps?

I believe that more guys are racing with their power meters because the devices are often used to make the bike meet the official weight requirements. So, they are no longer viewed as additional weight that you're carrying on your bike.

 

[theswordsman]

I think it would only make sense if a rider attacked on his own on a mountain finish and wanted to keep the result believable. But chances are, they'd either win the stage and be tested anyway, or do it behind a breakaway and be random tested for the performance.

Basso posted all of his SRM data during the 2009 Giro. I'm unfamiliar with most of the data, but I still looked at it every day. I imagine Aldo Sassi kept a close eye on the data, and they could use it to alter future training. At this year's Giro, Basso managed to peak at the perfect time, where competitors like Cadel and Vino had high quality results weeks earlier. I like to think that evaluation of Basso's 2009 Giro data helped him win in 2010.

As a side note, Ivan had trained scientifically for the 2009 event and was really disappointed with the results. He decided to ignore the power meter and train based on how he felt for the rest of that season.

I follow some riders on twitter, and this year they've shared high temperatures, kijoules, MPH on descents, and best performances, so I think they use it to help with monotony and for motivation.

 

[Nick777]

Just musing to myself when it occured to me that with , it apears, most (all?) of the peloton using power meters during races could it be the case that some may be using the meters as a bit of a "brake"?

Knowing the work being done to calculate with ever increasing accuracy a riders output and knowing that theres a physiogical limit on Watts/Kilo ( not everyones agreed on what this is but there estimates seem not to be a mile apart) is just the kind of info that might help a rider limit there effort.
This in no way negates the benifit of the doping accept in the all out effort, which is only a small part of most races.

Any thoughts peeps?

Interesting.
I like it.
Not sure if it happens, but who would put it past a team manager to come up with that..?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Contador doesn't race with a power meter.

 

[Escarabajo]

...
power data itself has too many uncertainties to implicate of doping.

Maybe power data calculations by formulas, but not the information obtained by a calibrated power meter. This info is very telling about potential doping IMHO.

 

[Realist]

Just musing to myself when it occured to me that with , it apears, most (all?) of the peloton using power meters during races could it be the case that some may be using the meters as a bit of a "brake"?

Knowing the work being done to calculate with ever increasing accuracy a riders output and knowing that theres a physiogical limit on Watts/Kilo ( not everyones agreed on what this is but there estimates seem not to be a mile apart) is just the kind of info that might help a rider limit there effort.
This in no way negates the benifit of the doping accept in the all out effort, which is only a small part of most races.

Any thoughts peeps?

Seriously? The hypothesis is that bike riders are looking at their power meters and intentionally slowing down because they are doing too well? No. That is not happening. And it wouldn't help avoid doping charges - there must be a theoretical limit on performance but we don't know what it is and extrapolating power from speed is too uncertain with one datapoint (one rider). Hence while good performance will likely lead to more wins and more tests, slowing down is not the right move. That defeats the purpose of doping in the first place, for a start. They might choose not to win if they knew they would test positive and didn't want to be tested. That doesn't require a power meter.

 

[durianrider]

It is a reasonable question....If a rider blasts up Alp d'Huez at 700 watts it would definitely cause them a lot of trouble. Does Schmuck and Contador look at their power numbers and call it a truce when they have both reached their highest believable numbers? I doubt it.

Nobody is riding at 700watts up a long climb. Attack at that wattage yes but not holding it.

 

[durianrider]

Lemond requested the UCI do off season and on season wattage tests as the differences would indicated doping. The UCI scrapped that idea. It makes too much sense and would kill the sport over night.

Just keep your actually race day weight confidential and it doesnt matter what you let your powermeter online profile say. Just tell em a race day weight that is a few kg heavier. That will keep em happy.

 

[galaxy1]

if blood doping allowed you to perform at 105% normal effort, you would avoid suspicion by only ever racing at slightly lower effort, surely, and then use that advantage to put in better attacks and get better recovery. this would be measured by HR or more likely, feel. power doesn't actually come into it.

i think all sorts of powers are attributed to power meters incorrectly - in other words manufacturers have great PR to sell more units. a lot of the "science" behind it is nonsensical. having the data doesn't hurt, of course, especially if you are under the weight limit. i'm sure this is the main reason why pros use them.

 

[Realist]

if blood doping allowed you to perform at 105% normal effort, you would avoid suspicion by only ever racing at slightly lower effort, surely, and then use that advantage to put in better attacks and get better recovery. this would be measured by HR or more likely, feel. power doesn't actually come into it.

i think all sorts of powers are attributed to power meters incorrectly - in other words manufacturers have great PR to sell more units. a lot of the "science" behind it is nonsensical. having the data doesn't hurt, of course, especially if you are under the weight limit. i'm sure this is the main reason why pros use them.

Have you ever used a power meter?

Have you ever worked closely with someone who has an in depth knowledge of how to use a power meter?

Have you ever used a power meter to progressively plan a build over three years and watch an athlete go from amateur to pro?

Do you understand mathematical and statistical approaches to analyzing power meter data from the perspective of aerodynamics and also for performance maximization over different time scales?

I'm just saying, probably not.

 

[Realist]

Lemond requested the UCI do off season and on season wattage tests as the differences would indicated doping. The UCI scrapped that idea. It makes too much sense and would kill the sport over night.

Just keep your actually race day weight confidential and it doesnt matter what you let your powermeter online profile say. Just tell em a race day weight that is a few kg heavier. That will keep em happy.

Power fluctuates too much because of factors other than drugs to be useful in this way. Motivation, freshness, fitness. And off season to on season... there can be huge changes caused only by conditioning. I am a huge fan of Lemond, I still rate the training chapter he wrote in his book as one of the more sensible published programs in the popular cycling literature. I desperately want the sport cleaned up and I respect his efforts in that direction. Still, I think power and VO2 monitoring is not actually the way to go. The information about form and fitness from a power meter is alrge (if you know how to interpret it). The information about where that came from (drugs, talent, training, etc), less so. Tracking haematological parameters, changing incentives and changing management culture will do it, I hope.