Are the USPS related punishments not harsh enough?

[babastooey]

More questions from me, I know you guys just love those.

OK, so the riders who rode with Lance received suspensions and they had results voided. That is good because doping is bad no matter who is admitting to it, and the stand has to be taken against doping and not individual riders on a case by case basis, so as to not play favorites.

Why, then, did Landis not receive a lifetime ban for a second offense? I know his career is basically over, but then again, so is Lance and George.

I don't ask the same thing about Hamilton because I think he is already banned for life? Can anyone confirm that?

Why did Vaughters receive nothing? You could make the argument that as a result of his cheating he is now a DS. You could also make the other argument but regardless, he did confess to cheating and should get something. He should also have results voided, like Barry, even though neither of them really have any results.

While we are at it, we should root out other ex-USPS guys still in the sport because their cheating ways could have an influence over the other guys in the sport. Why is Ekimov being allowed to become a DS at Katusha? What about Dirk Demol? What about Matt White?

 

[wirral]

I believe the UCI can appeal the sentences to CAS if they consider them too lenient.

 

[babastooey]

Good luck with that.

 

[hrotha]

I don't think it counts as a second offense if you admit to doping before the instance where you were caught. Otherwise, everybody would be on their 8291st offense.

6 months might be fair, but the timing is a bit too convenient for my tastes. Losing results might sting though.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

losing results in what periods though? to me they should hang for 2 years

 

[babastooey]

Danielson loses all results from March 1, 2005 through September 23, 2006
Barry loses all results from May 13, 2003 through July 31, 2006
Hincapie loses all results from May 31, 2004 through July 31, 2006
Leipheimer loses all results from June 1, 1999 through July 30, 2006 and from July 7 through July 29, 2007
Vande Velde loses all results from June 4, 2004 through April 30, 2006
Zabriskie loses all results from May 12, 2003 through July 31, 2006

My point is that Vaughters should probably lose his results too, at least from 1998-1999, and should also be suspended.

All of the above guys are being suspended for admitting to doping, and if Landis did too as part of an official investigation, then he should also be banned for life?

Already the Lance backers are complaining that these guys got slaps on the wrist in order to take down the big fish; they at least have a point on one thing...doping is doping. Perhaps these guys shouldn't get suspended for life (other than Landis being a repeat offender), but they should get something more than 6 months. Otherwise, everyone in the current peloton could go out the way Hincapie did? Lie and cheat for years and then confess to it all when you are one foot out the door to retirement.

I will be interested to see whether or not John Lieswyn or Jeff Louder are presented with the USA Time Trial championships that Zabriskie cheated to win. If I was Jeff Louder, I would be putting stars and stripes bands on my TT kit.

I think USADA has only scraped the surface here. Zabriskie continued to cheat while with CSC, according to the results that USADA has voided. And lets not forget Hamilton's involvement with CSC. Should they investigate Bobby Julich, who got on a podium during a suspicious 1998 Tour where other dopers did well? Other CSC riders?

What about other former USPS riders in the current peloton, like Boonen or Devolder?

If anything, it is good that Boonen outsprinted George at PR in 2005. Imagine if George had tried all those years to win it, then won it, only to lose it now from a retroactive doping sanction.

If Levi was cheating sans Lance in 2007, then was Contador also cheating? Perhaps he needs to be investigated as well, and then also banned for life for his multiple offenses.

And once again, shouldn't anyone associated with US Postal be prevented from being in cycling management?

 

[pastronef]

maybe Usada and Usa cycling understood this was the only way to get them talking, and step out.
all the other riders are too scared to say anything.
these 3 garmin riders are risking more than a 6 months ban. and vaughters has put his team management role in danger.

find me someone who does the same

 

[ElChingon]

maybe Usada and Usa cycling understood this was the only way to get them talking, and step out.
all the other riders are too scared to say anything.
these 3 garmin riders are risking more than a 6 months ban. and vaughters has put his team management role in danger.

find me someone who does the same

Vaughters narked out that Tommy D was on O2 Vector stuff while at Garmin, definitely past 2006 and who knows who or what else transpired back then.

The punishments are not enough because anyone still involved and not on the current list knows if they fess up later they can still work a deal, heck they can dope and know if they give it up when caught they can work the system to their benefit and still only get a slap on the wrist. Life bans now sets the bar high so anyone thinking or doing it just stops now.

 

[Love the Scenery]

Source:
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2012/10/11/actualidad/1349984219_242594.html

Partial Translation (original below):
[open quote]
...
Vaughters began his career as a cyclist in the modest Santa Clara. It was 1994 and there began his relation to EPO. In 1998, Vaughters came to US Postal ... Celaya ... injected him with EPO and explained its effects.

Free from the oath sworn to USADA, however, other ex-teammates of Vaughters tell, anonymously ... another version: Celaya was, in reality, a fireman, alert to put out fires on the team, since each rider also carried out his own doping work sometimes with doctors alien to the team, and Vaughters, they add, was one of the most dangerous pyromaniacs, a sage of substances and biochemistry.
[close quote]

Conclusion: ALL Vaughters' results are fake. He talks about being honest and open, but he has not been. Every single one of his results from his entire career need to be voided. Otherwise Vaughers lacks any credibility.

Original (partial):
El testimonio de Jonathan Vaughters, el actual director del Garmin, también radicado en Girona, y excompañero de Armstrong, es el que da más claves sobre el toque español del equipo. “Un día, en agosto de 1999, hablando con Bruyneel le dije que en el pelotón se comentaba que Armstrong era tan bueno porque usaba dopaje desarrollado por la NASA”, recuerda Vaughters en su testimonio. “Y Bruyneel se echó a reír. ‘Si supieran’, me dijo, ‘que usamos los mismos productos que conocí en la ONCE, incluso menos...”

Vaughters inició su carrera de ciclista en el modesto Santa Clara. Era 1994 y allí ya comenzó su relación con la EPO. En 1998, Vaughters llegó al US Postal, donde aún no habían desembarcado Bruyneel, Del Moral ni Martí. El médico era entonces Pedro Celaya, vasco. Vaughters cuenta que Celaya, a quien describe como pausado, tranquilo, de buena charla y dotes psicológicas, le inyectaba EPO y le explicaba sus efectos.

Libres del juramento prestado a la USADA, sin embargo, otros excompañeros de Vaughters cuentan, anónimamente —pocos osan apoyar a quien ha caído: así es el sistema— una versión diferente: Celaya era, en realidad, un bombero, atento a apagar fuegos en el equipo, pues cada corredor llevaba su propio trabajo dopante a veces con otros médicos ajenos al equipo, y Vaughters, añaden, era uno de los más peligrosos pirómanos, un sabio de sustancias y de la bioquímica.

Con Del Moral, que sustituyó en 1999 a un despedido Celaya porque, según Vaughters, no era tan decidido en el tema del dopaje como Armstrong quería, es menos compasivo el actual mánager del Garmin. Le describe como una persona irascible y brusca que llegó al equipo cargado de jeringuillas y tablas Excel con planificaciones dopantes y datos de hematocrito. Lo de las jeringuillas se lo cuenta a la USADA David Zabriskie, otro excompañero —“entrabas en su habitación y al segundo ya tenías una jeringuilla en el brazo o en la tripa”, bromea el ciclista—, que también relata que con Celaya la EPO se la entregaban en viales y con Del Moral, apodado El Gato, llegaba ya en jeringuillas precargadas. Pepe Martí, cuentan, trabajaba como auxiliar en tareas de transfusión de sangre y como correo con productos peligrosos.

Pese a que Vaughters termina echando pestes del sistema y de Del Moral, no rompe totalmente con el médico valenciano, y como denunció hace dos años su excorredor en el Garmin, Trent Lowe, siguió enviándole ciclistas del equipo a pasar revisión médica a su consulta.

 

[ElChingon]

Source:
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2012/10/11/actualidad/1349984219_242594.html

Conclusion: ALL Vaughters' results are fake. He talks about being honest and open, but he has not been. Every single one of his results from his entire career need to be voided. Otherwise Vaughers lacks any credibility.

Bam! Dead on!

 

[the asian]

Vaughters narked out that Tommy D was on O2 Vector stuff while at Garmin, definitely past 2006 and who knows who or what else transpired back then.

The punishments are not enough because anyone still involved and not on the current list knows if they fess up later they can still work a deal, heck they can dope and know if they give it up when caught they can work the system to their benefit and still only get a slap on the wrist. Life bans now sets the bar high so anyone thinking or doing it just stops now.

Life bans will discourage whistle blowers.

IMO life bans for first time offenses are also too harsh.

Also what about contamination. Contamination is a genuine probability and if a athlete is unable to prove contamination he may also face a life ban.

I would prefer a harsher ban for 1st time offenses for EPO, Blood doping, Testosterone , steroids gene doping, and the standard two year ban for other drugs.

Though if any potential big impact new drug hits the market, there could be a problem.