Are you afraid?

[AngusW]

For those statistically minded, roughly 8 cyclists a year are killed on London's roads. Many more are injured. In the courier community, I would say that every week, at least two messengers are off the road injured.

Yes some of the driving, like in any town, is staggeringly selfish and dangerous, and sometimes actually verges on attempted murder. Drivers cutting you up, overtaking with inches to spare, pulling out in front of you at crossings etc etc, deliberately hitting you with wing mirrors, break "testing" you etc etc. It never ceases to amaze me that if you cut me up in a car, we get in a fight, I punch you and you fall, crack your head and die, I will get prosecuted for manslaughter in the uk. But if you just clip me as you cut me up, I go under your wheels and die, you might get a four hundred pound fine and a ban for causing death by dangerous driving. Think I am exagerating? then just look at the case involving the killer of British TT champion Jason Mcintyre and some other high profile cases.

Here in New Zealand 5 cyclists were killed in one week last November. This in a country of 4 million people. 4 of these deaths were on rural roads. All of the deaths were due to poor decision-making on the part of the drivers involved. But then, that is the cause of almost every road accident here which killed 393 people last year.

Accidents involving cyclists and motorists are always described as "collisions" by our media. I collided with a bus 8 years ago. My rear wheel collided with the front bumper of the bus as the bus driver accelerated. I was at fault in two respects: 1, I was attempting to share the same piece of road as the bus, 2, I was not travelling fast enough in the same direction as the bus to avoid the collision. The bus company claimed I was at fault when I tried to get them to pay for my taco-ed rear wheel, but sportingly didn't charge me for the damage caused to the front bumper of the bus.

One collision over a year ago involved a cyclist and motorist who had taken the decision to drink a large quantity of alcohol before driving. The collision between the two vehicles resulted the cyclist losing his life. The driver was jailed for 2 years and 2 months after admitting being at fault. It was her 4th drink driving conviction.

Cars are relatively cheap to buy here. You can get a drivers licence when you are 15 years old and you don't need to have any insurance for your private motor vehicle. Public transport in most places is under-developed and not utilised, even when it is running. Roads are mostly built for cars, with no shoulder for cyclists to ride on. Alcohol is cheap and among young and not-so-young people it is considered normal to consume as much alcohol as possible on a regular basis. It's known as binge drinking. When driving, getting from place to place as fast as possible is considered normal and consideration for other road users is rare. Car ownership is considered a right rather than a privilege.

Our government had the opportunity last year to raise the minimum age for driving and to impose greater taxes on alcohol. They did neither.

Car owners here pay a tax for roads. Bicycle owners are not taxed as road-users. This fact, coupled with some reckless behaviour on the road by a number of cyclists, such as running red lights, cycling on the footpaths (pavement/side walk) and cycling the wrong way down one-way streets has led a number of car owners to believe that cyclist don't have a right to use the roads.

Ramble over. As you were.

 

[delbified]

when i did a motorbike tour around NZ, i was unimpressed with driving standards. even less so that in australia. relatively speaking, the europeans seem to have a good grip on the art of driving and i suspect it's no coincidence cycling is easier over there.

 

[Martin318is]

Car owners here pay a tax for roads. Bicycle owners are not taxed as road-users. This fact, coupled with some reckless behaviour on the road by a number of cyclists, such as running red lights, cycling on the footpaths (pavement/side walk) and cycling the wrong way down one-way streets has led a number of car owners to believe that cyclist don't have a right to use the roads.

This is ALMOST the exact same situation as Australia. The exception is that drivers THINK they are taxed to pay for roads whereas in fact the registration mainly goes to insurance and other sundry items inc government income. As such bike riders pay the exact same amount for roads as drivers through normal tax.

The rest of the statement plus that misconception feels sickeningly like Melbourne

 

[craig1985]

This is ALMOST the exact same situation as Australia. The exception is that drivers THINK they are taxed to pay for roads whereas in fact the registration mainly goes to insurance and other sundry items inc government income. As such bike riders pay the exact same amount for roads as drivers through normal tax.

The rest of the statement plus that misconception feels sickeningly like Melbourne

The stupid thing is that they complain to me for not paying road tax, when um, I'm not the bloke who makes the laws, when they should use that energy to actually do something about it.

I'm actually in the minority here, but I actually like riding in heavy traffic for the simple reasons that it has improved my road sense in knowing that it is going on around me, it has made me more confident on the bike and taught me to assert myself with other drivers. I look what it is going on behind me, use hand signals, and give a wave or two as a sign of thanks for the driver for giving way. And believe me, some of the motorists here on the Gold Coast have NFI what they are doing. Look up the poster 95rpm and read some of his posts when it comes to asserting yourself on the bike.

 

[straydog]

It is with a heavy heart that I write this post. I have just heard that former British Heavyweight Boxing champion Gary Mason was killed in a cycling "collision" yesterday morning. The driver of a white combi van was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and bailed until March.

I really can't summon up much to try and respond to some of the previous posts, so apologies if anything I write comes across badly.

Izzy,
Unfortunately if you are involved in a collision with a pedestrian, and they leave the scene, there is nothing you can do. Myself and many of my colleagues can attest to this. We are very well versed in our legal rights, when it comes to our lively hoods. Unfortunately, a collision with a pedestrian is a civil case, and as such, you need to seek recompense from another party. If they are untraceable, which is the case, then you have no one to sue. Leaving the scene of an accident is a crime, if you are a driver, although you have 24 hours to report the accident. As such if a driver hits you and then leaves, the police can trace them via cctv etc. A Pedestrian however, they cannot. The criminal injuries compensation scheme will also not touch your case, as the event is not considered a "crime". Yes, you should contact the police immediately if you are involved in any collision. But unless it involves a driver, don't expect much help. A colleague of mine has just returned from 14 months off with an open fracture of his arm, caused by a pedestrian, on oxford street, in full view of witnesses and cctv. The pedestrian walked away and got on the tube. My friend's only financial help during his time off was from the LCEF http://lcef.wordpress.com/. If you have a moment or any spare change, please visit their website and donate. When I was hit by a black cab last year, they were literally life savers.

Angus W,
Your ramble, isn't a "ramble" in my opinion, and should definitely not be over any time soon. I think you hit the nail on the head regarding some driver's opinions regarding cyclists. They of course fail to consider that most cyclists also drive, and as such pay road tax. My favourite argument is when they call cyclists menaces. 3000 road deaths caused by cars in the uk each year, on average 1 death caused by a cyclist every two years. And one of those, two years ago in bristol was a pedestrian stepping out in front of a cyclist, who shouted a warning that he couldn't stop, but was still prosecuted.

Every summer I am lucky enough to guide and coach in Europe. Attitudes there are so different compared to the UK. I actually am amazed that I can spend twenty minutes holding up traffic on a small mountain pass, with not one horn sounded and not one engine revved.

I have also experienced what you are talking about in NZ, north and south Island. Last (your) summer. I was amazed. On the whole I thought your traffic laws were more sensible but still some of the driving I saw was staggering. Having said that the road infrastructure isn't great, and as such cyclists and Drivers share almost all the same roads no matter how remote.

You are right. It is about attitude and prejudice. If I, or anyone else on this forum, cracked jokes, displayed prejudice or encouraged others to cause harm against any group based on their race, sexuality or religion in the same way that many drivers do against people who ride bikes, then quite rightly most people would be appalled. And yet, supposedly sane people take very little issue with it, because somehow we are asking for it by holding them up when they are in a rush to get somewhere. So yes, today, as I woke up to more sad news, I would urge those mindless f*cking pr*cks to chat to Gary Mason's family, to ask Jason's wife and daughters how they are getting on without him, and maybe email Darcy Sheppard's kids and see if they miss their dad and then ask them all if they understand, that, you know, stuff happens when people need to get somewhere.

I really wish I could summon up something intelligent to say, but honestly, days like today, just make me want to crawl back under the covers and give up.

My deepest condolences to Gary Mason's family. What a tragic, pointless waste.

 

[JA.Tri]

prev post

So sad.

Cogent thoughts.

Understand your feelings.

 

[Izzy eviel]

I was wrong & Straydog was right. I've looked into it further and the MIB won't cover accidents with Pedestrians.

 

[Archibald]

I cycle every day.and i dont want to die. But in this country the number of cyclists killed is high. I always cycle with a helmet, lights etc, and on pavement when i can and rarely on busy roads and i cross busy roundabouts as a pedestrian rather than tackling them on my bike etc etc. But its not really about me. There are bad drivers out there, and lots of people who drive drunk or high etc.

Ive had several instances where motherless ****s have endangered my life because they see getting where they want to be 10 seconds earlier as more important then my life. A lot of the cycling deaths in the news here are caused by drunk drivers.

Sometimes i feel it would be wisest to buy a gun and shoot at the tires of anyone who behaves like this. Once stories hit the news, some of these ****s might think twice about driving into a cyclist.

Anyway the point is, i feel that the chances of having a crash with a car are high, maybe even a fatal one, especially for someone like myself who cycles every day.

Im scared. A lot of the dead are students like myself. One moment there is a future ahead of you, the next moment there is nothing.

Is anyone else scared like this?

I cycle everyday here in london too, and in a word - no.
Of the cities around this world I've ridden in, London is one of, if not the best so far. Sure, I've had a few close calls from idiots, but the motoring community here seem far more aware of cyclists than anywhere else I've ridden. It is a pity that so many foolish cyclists here are actively p*ssing motorists off with their behaviour, which will only have a negative effect on their outlook towards us.
Staying aware, staying visible and obeying the rules of the road, and you really aren't going to go too far wrong here in London, even on the busiest roads.
Most of the deaths are people falling for the one thing - every vehicle turning a corner cuts as close to that corner as it can and you need to allow for this. Trucks are the worst and are the ones killing cyclists this way constantly here. Keltbray have racked up over three deaths from their trucks alone...
Don't corner on the inside of any vehicle - take up your own space or stay behind the vehicle.

As for riding on the pavement... you're not a 12 year old, so don't.

And, yes, I've fantasised about having a paintball gun for both stupid motorists/scooters and stupid cyclists, but it'll never happen...

 

[Archibald]

See avatar. BMW driver didn't want to wait the 5 seconds for me to pass and instead tried to overtake me and just drove straight into me. Broken shoulder & broken wrist was the result. Very lucky we weren't going fast or it would've been a lot worse. I hit the drivers side window so thankfully I didn't go through the windscreen or flying over the back of the car.

At first I couldn't wait to get back on my bike, but as the day got closer to me being able to ride again I found myself ****ting myself more. I've just started riding again and boy am I scared. It'll be a while before I feel confident to cycle to work.

Still the thing to remember is cycling is cycling. It's a lot of fun but crashes & accidents do happen. Just gotta make yourself visible and assert yourself on the road. Easier said then done though.

Tip for everyone: Even if you are in accident and have no chance of finding the driver, still report the crime. You can then make a claim through one of those 'ever had an accident that wasn't your fault?' people and you can get a payout for your injuries/expenses etc.

it's funny how the more expensive the car, the more arrogant and stupid the driver is here - until you get to the mega-expensive bentleys and ferraris that don't want their car scratched up by your £150 commuter.
the dimwit that clocked me was in a bmw and admitted to not looking to his left before pulling out into me...

 

[Archibald]

Their doing some new cycle highways but from what ive heard its just paint on the road. In my spiritual home city - warsaw they have cycle paths on an elevated platform about 20m from the duel carriagway and it goes on for miles. And on other roads they let you ride on the pavement. That works a lot better imo.

I use that #7 one for nearly it's entire length every two weeks. And it's funny how the cars actually stay out of the blue "zone", which is quite unlike the white line markings of general cycle lanes. They are better than I thought they'd be

 

[RedheadDane]

And yet, supposedly sane people take very little issue with it, because somehow we are asking for it by holding them up when they are in a rush to get somewhere.

Because people on bikes are never in a rush to get anywhere...?
Seriously though, I have tried being caught behind/in the middle of a long row of hardly moving cars (on a road with no biking lane. If there is a biking lane it's quite another story. Just zoom past all those hardly moving cars while screaming "Haha!! suckers!!" on the inside! That's the best!) sometimes I've even resolved to getting off my bike and dragging it along on the pedestrian lane. (Or just ridden my bike there...)
But I suppose that's an option you don't really have when you're in a car...

 

[simo1733]

I cycle every day.and i dont want to die. But in this country the number of cyclists killed is high. I always cycle with a helmet, lights etc, and on pavement when i can and rarely on busy roads and i cross busy roundabouts as a pedestrian rather than tackling them on my bike etc etc. But its not really about me. There are bad drivers out there, and lots of people who drive drunk or high etc.

Ive had several instances where motherless ****s have endangered my life because they see getting where they want to be 10 seconds earlier as more important then my life. A lot of the cycling deaths in the news here are caused by drunk drivers.

Sometimes i feel it would be wisest to buy a gun and shoot at the tires of anyone who behaves like this. Once stories hit the news, some of these ****s might think twice about driving into a cyclist.

Anyway the point is, i feel that the chances of having a crash with a car are high, maybe even a fatal one, especially for someone like myself who cycles every day.

Im scared. A lot of the dead are students like myself. One moment there is a future ahead of you, the next moment there is nothing.

Is anyone else scared like this?

only bikes with stabilisers should be on the pavement.You're not ..,.,are ya

 

[Izzy eviel]

I've decided when I'm fit enough to ride properly again, I'm not going to wear a helmet or bright clothing. I won't look behind me, I won't signal which way I'm going, i'll jump every red light and never use my brakes and I'm gonna weave all the road & pavements. I swear the idiots who do that never have an accident!

 

[Highlander]

I've had some epic crashes including one that tore my right pinkie off, but I've never been worried about riding again. Even with that injury, I was riding again as soon as I could hold the handlebars (and I bought a new bike). Perhaps this doesn't sound normal, but I always figured that I can die doing anything, so I may as well enjoy myself on my bike until it's my time to go.

 

[Archibald]

I've decided when I'm fit enough to ride properly again, I'm not going to wear a helmet or bright clothing. I won't look behind me, I won't signal which way I'm going, i'll jump every red light and never use my brakes and I'm gonna weave all the road & pavements. I swear the idiots who do that never have an accident!

make sure you don't put any lights on your bike either
but I reckon you may be onto something!

 

[flicker]

I've decided when I'm fit enough to ride properly again, I'm not going to wear a helmet or bright clothing. I won't look behind me, I won't signal which way I'm going, i'll jump every red light and never use my brakes and I'm gonna weave all the road & pavements. I swear the idiots who do that never have an accident!

Do you also like to park in front of oncoming trains?

 

[stainlessguy1]

I've decided when I'm fit enough to ride properly again, I'm not going to wear a helmet or bright clothing. I won't look behind me, I won't signal which way I'm going, i'll jump every red light and never use my brakes and I'm gonna weave all the road & pavements. I swear the idiots who do that never have an accident!

Good observation Izzy .

It seems motorists give a wide birth to people that weave all over the road and in and out of parked cars . The Motorist must think that all those that are dressed up are profesional riders so they can drive really close just like it shows on TV during the tour coverage .

Every motorist is a specially trained licensed driver , right . ?
YOu know ,,, like red means stop ,, green means go ,, and yellow means speed up right ? lol .

 

[Spider1964]

Scared... No... Alert... Yes.

Living in a cycle friendly city in Rural Oz most drivers are reasonably cyclist aware, although like previous posts theres always one! Tradies on their way to work must forever be late to get to the job-site and truckies (particularly the b-double drivers) never give you enough room

A little over 20 years ago I had an incident with an inexperienced driver that nearly ended my life. 6 weeks after knee surgery, surgeon gave me the ok to get on the bike and go for a spin. 10 minutes into my ride and I'm heading up a slight incline, riding into the sun, when an impatient driver decides to pass another vehicle on the inside, fails to see me and cleans me up. After cartwheeling over the vehicle.. leaving a perfect imprint of my skull in his windscreen... I woke up in the gutter battered and bruised but luckily alive. Worst thing was the Ambos took me to hospital... much to my annoyance as I had arranged a date at the local with a young lass that I had met the previous week. Despite my protests the doctors kept me in overnight for observation... ruining my chances for the evening Anyway... one thing led to another... we eventually met again... and now... 19 years of marriage and 3 kids later... we're all good... Cue violins and set free the white doves

 

[JA.Tri]

Spider 1964

Cool story. Boy do you have someone looking out for you!

 

[Archibald]

It seems motorists give a wide birth to people that weave all over the road and in and out of parked cars . The Motorist must think that all those that are dressed up are profesional riders so they can drive really close just like it shows on TV during the tour coverage .

i recall someone saying that drivers have that reaction simply to helmeted riders - they give them less room under the assumption that the helmet will adequately protect the riders more...

 

[Finbouy]

On my ride last Sat I was beeped twice by motorists, on each occasion I wasn't doing anything other than riding along the road, no red light jumps, no non indicating, now't..just riding along.

 

[woodie]

On my ride last Sat I was beeped twice by motorists, on each occasion I wasn't doing anything other than riding along the road, no red light jumps, no non indicating, now't..just riding along.

That happens to me every ride lol. I also have motorists buz really close trying to scare me. It's happened so often i barely notice anymore

 

[stainlessguy1]

i recall someone saying that drivers have that reaction simply to helmeted riders - they give them less room under the assumption that the helmet will adequately protect the riders more...

Ya so true, i guess by that token a helmet must protect someone from facial injuries and body crushes as well .
I never like to wear a helmet , i dont even own one of those modern toilet bowls , I guess they have vents in them now , so they arent as hot . Still i wont wear it on a ride . Never alone or in our trusted group of old timers , Just a cap to absorb the sweat .
It seems everyone wearing helmets thinks they are invincible and the magic of stop signs is only for the other guy . Especially in groups , safety in numbers , lol . I guess if the front of the group goes thru the red light then we have to too , or they get bragging rights as they are back to Tim hortons coffee shop first . lol .

Not .

 

[AngusW]

straydog:

No apologies necessary, it was a well-articulated post, I appreciate your thoughts. I'm really sorry to hear about Gary Mason; another needless death all in the name of convenience.

 

[Martin318is]

i recall someone saying that drivers have that reaction simply to helmeted riders - they give them less room under the assumption that the helmet will adequately protect the riders more...

yeah - its one of many flawed pieces of 'research' trotted out by the anti-helmet lobby. Its almost as good as "I didnt wear a helmet when I was a kid and I'm fine"...