Argentina: the New ProCycling Destination?

[hfer07]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/new-aso-event-in-argentina

I most confess I'm exited to see new races in South America attracting ASO's & UCI's attention in search for Pro-Tour level -but mostly to expose the richness of out lands to the world through Cycling. San Luis is a great race to kick off the beginning of the season, but I hope in future years we can host a World class GT.... (I have a dream......)

PS: I'm still waiting for the UCI to grant a Pro-tour Race level in Colombia since 86...

I'd like to know your opinion on this topic...

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, it's basically a European country, so why not

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/new-aso-event-in-argentina

I most confess I'm exited to see new races in South America attracting ASO's & UCI's attention in search for Pro-Tour level -but mostly to expose the richness of out lands to the world through Cycling. San Luis is a great race to kick off the beginning of the season, but I hope in future years we can host a World class GT.... (I have a dream......)

PS: I'm still waiting for the UCI to grant a Pro-tour Race level in Colombia since 86...

I'd like to know your opinion on this topic...

cycling is already on a very high and professional level in south america without the uci. they don't need them but it's good to showcase what they have to europe.

 

[joe_papp]

cycling is already on a very high and professional level in south america without the uci. they don't need them but it's good to showcase what they have to europe.

I made a very enjoyable career out of racing UCI events in Latin America, including Tours of Cuba, Venezuela, Chile, Uruguay, Panama, Sao Paolo; UCI Pan American Continental Championships; countless one-day races...

These events were harder than any races in the US, except maybe stuff like the Tour of California; Tour du Pont/Trump; Georgia; KMart WV Classic; Thrift Drug - half of which don't even exist.

The riders are by and large harder, tougher, and more motivated by a desire to escape poverty than in the US...and if they ever make it to the US? Watch out! Look at Yosvani Falcon, and Luis Amaran ...

No disrespect to the best US riders...

Conditions are different in Latin America, and most South American riders who are competing full-time aren't doing it just for fun, and they don't have college degrees, for example, which is a staple in the US scene.

If I can plug the blog "Cycling Inquisition", there is an in-depth interview on Latin American racing there.

Ivan Parra, Fabio Parra, Jose Rujano, Jackson Rodriguez, Carlos Serpa, Alejandro Borrajo (Giro d'Italia sprinter success), Pedro Pablo Perez (of Cuba, who could drop Basso as a sub-23 in the mtns, but whose career ended in a drunken auto smash-up in the middle of the night...) - all amazing riders from Latin America who enjoyed international success...not to forget Botero, Victor Hugo Peña, too.

 

[hfer07]

cycling is already on a very high and professional level in south america without the uci. they don't need them but it's good to showcase what they have to europe.

perhaps I was misunderstood- I wasn't questioning the Professional level of the riders & the racers in our Lands-I want those races to obtain UCI-Pro Tour ranking in future years, so he could have once more the international participation of Stars, like in the past my country land Columbia used to have when we had the likes of Hinault, Fignon, Sean Kelly, Stephen Roche, Alvaro Pino, Pedro Delgado & many more, back in the 80's...

that's what I'm hoping for to happen in South America in a near future..

 

[hfer07]

I made a very enjoyable career out of racing UCI events in Latin America, including Tours of Cuba, Venezuela, Chile, Uruguay, Panama, Sao Paolo; UCI Pan American Continental Championships; countless one-day races...

These events were harder than any races in the US, except maybe stuff like the Tour of California; Tour du Pont/Trump; Georgia; KMart WV Classic; Thrift Drug - half of which don't even exist.

The riders are by and large harder, tougher, and more motivated by a desire to escape poverty than in the US...and if they ever make it to the US? Watch out! Look at Yosvani Falcon, and Luis Amaran ...

No disrespect to the best US riders...

Conditions are different in Latin America, and most South American riders who are competing full-time aren't doing it just for fun, and they don't have college degrees, for example, which is a staple in the US scene.

If I can plug the blog "Cycling Inquisition", there is an in-depth interview on Latin American racing there.

Ivan Parra, Fabio Parra, Jose Rujano, Jackson Rodriguez, Carlos Serpa, Alejandro Borrajo (Giro d'Italia sprinter success), Pedro Pablo Perez (of Cuba, who could drop Basso as a sub-23 in the mtns, but whose career ended in a drunken auto smash-up in the middle of the night...) - all amazing riders from Latin America who enjoyed international success...not to forget Botero, Victor Hugo Peña, too.

Great post Joe, and very entertaining your own experiences in South America --cheers mate

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

perhaps I was misunderstood- I wasn't questioning the Professional level of the riders & the racers in our Lands-I want those races to obtain UCI-Pro Tour ranking in future years, so he could have once more the international participation of Stars, like in the past my country land Columbia used to have when we had the likes of Hinault, Fignon, Sean Kelly, Stephen Roche, Alvaro Pino, Pedro Delgado & many more, back in the 80's...

that's what I'm hoping for to happen in South America in a near future..

do people in argentina want that?? I know cycling in argentina is a very regional thing, in san juan, san luis and mendoza cycling is huge, buenos aires is huge so it has following there as well but I don't know how big european cyclists are in your country overall.

I hope they will at least permit argentinean teams in the race although that has gotten worse too with a record low of 1! argentinean team in san luis this year, which resulted in not having an argentinean winner for the first time.

also in san luis riders like nibali race, if the aso organize a tour in march the 2nd rate riders from pt teams will ride but nog big names.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I made a very enjoyable career out of racing UCI events in Latin America, including Tours of Cuba, Venezuela, Chile, Uruguay, Panama, Sao Paolo; UCI Pan American Continental Championships; countless one-day races...

These events were harder than any races in the US, except maybe stuff like the Tour of California; Tour du Pont/Trump; Georgia; KMart WV Classic; Thrift Drug - half of which don't even exist.

The riders are by and large harder, tougher, and more motivated by a desire to escape poverty than in the US...and if they ever make it to the US? Watch out! Look at Yosvani Falcon, and Luis Amaran ...

No disrespect to the best US riders...

Conditions are different in Latin America, and most South American riders who are competing full-time aren't doing it just for fun, and they don't have college degrees, for example, which is a staple in the US scene.

If I can plug the blog "Cycling Inquisition", there is an in-depth interview on Latin American racing there.

Ivan Parra, Fabio Parra, Jose Rujano, Jackson Rodriguez, Carlos Serpa, Alejandro Borrajo (Giro d'Italia sprinter success), Pedro Pablo Perez (of Cuba, who could drop Basso as a sub-23 in the mtns, but whose career ended in a drunken auto smash-up in the middle of the night...) - all amazing riders from Latin America who enjoyed international success...not to forget Botero, Victor Hugo Peña, too.

I remember rading some of your things about both cuba and chili I think?

it's so interesting to read about it because it's a huge part of cycling that we have no clue about mostly. How they broadcast from start to finish the copa america races in brazil that are like one big kamikaze sprint and is entertaning as hell and unfrtounately not many come to europe for various reasons, mostly money.

pedro pablo perez was a hero in cuba because despite being build like a tom boonen on steroids(no pun intended here) he could climb quite well and mnostly sprint and itt to win the vuelta cuba every year and not flee the moment he was send to an foreign trip. now that role is taken over by alcolea and ppp sadly has had to retire because of that horrible accident.

 

[el chava]

If I can plug the blog "Cycling Inquisition", there is an in-depth interview on Latin American racing there.

Seems like a cool blog! Thanks a lot for the link!

 

[hfer07]

do people in argentina want that?? I know cycling in argentina is a very regional thing, in san juan, san luis and mendoza cycling is huge, buenos aires is huge so it has following there as well but I don't know how big european cyclists are in your country overall.

I hope they will at least permit argentinean teams in the race although that has gotten worse too with a record low of 1! argentinean team in san luis this year, which resulted in not having an argentinean winner for the first time.

also in san luis riders like nibali race, if the aso organize a tour in march the 2nd rate riders from pt teams will ride but nog big names.

I can't opine if the Argentinians themselves want it to happen, but when a World renown enterprise like ASO is currently making negotiations with the government & sporting authorities to make it happen, is simply stupid to ever think if some people like the idea or not-when in fact is good business & publicity for the region.

as far as local participation in those races if they reach Pro-tour level?- the Idea is to create some concession to allow local teams to participate while having the Pro-tour Riders alongside... even if they send the B-team, still great to promote cycling at that level.

My country has NONE European riders currently in our races-even Oscar Sevilla is Spanish, he's almost Colombian, since he's made my contry his permanent residence..... but the reality is that in 95 we hosted the World's Road Championship in Paipa with the elite of Cycling attending it (Indurain,Pantani, Olano, Virenque, Le Blanc, etc) and we thought the event would catapult our country into the international scenario to be used for Pro-Tour racing and guess what..... no UCI-Pro Tour ranking races means no International Prop-cyclists ever interested in riding our races- even if we can offer flat stages at 2400 plus meters above sea level, or 30 km climbs starting at 1800 plus meters A.S.L. or coast line mountain stages...

as I said- Is good to have a partner like ASO getting involved in South America regardless any regional o biased inclination-- Is simply good & promising

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Do NOT make races like Colombia ProTour. You make it ProTour then all the Colombian teams can't go.

Make it 2.1 perhaps, and cause the Colombian teams to go for Continental status or have national and national u23 teams or something alongside those that are Continental. But making races like that ProTour will not add to the race; it will simply replace the entire entry list with Euros.

But because even 2.1 rated races require UCI-signed teams, you'd be signing over a great amount of cycling's identity and character in the region to the UCI just to get over a handful of European mid-level riders. Is that really a price worth paying?

 

[icefire]

Posters here entertain with the idea of making ProTour cycling a kind of traveling circus around the world as Formula 1 or Tennis. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to happen.

The nature of those sports, their physical demands and the centralised control of the competition make them completely different. The presence of top tennis players in major tournaments is driven by coercion from the ATP. There's nothing like that in cycling. And I'm not sure that having UCI playing that role is a good idea.

I don't see the point of having top riders going everywhere when they just care about a few races, and they enter other races if they fit with their training plans for their season targets.

Cycling on this aspect is more like football. The big leagues are in Europe, and the big teams go on tour to Asia or America during the off-season for friendly games. Colombia and Argentina should work in developing and maintaining their own cycling leagues.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

well said

now there are pro tour races in poland, australia, canada and nobody cares about them either including the riders. yes of course some riders want to win but also some riders want to win tour of langkawi when they race there. that is normal but it's not a goal for anyone.

 

[hfer07]

Do NOT make races like Colombia ProTour. You make it ProTour then all the Colombian teams can't go.

Make it 2.1 perhaps, and cause the Colombian teams to go for Continental status or have national and national u23 teams or something alongside those that are Continental. But making races like that ProTour will not add to the race; it will simply replace the entire entry list with Euros.

But because even 2.1 rated races require UCI-signed teams, you'd be signing over a great amount of cycling's identity and character in the region to the UCI just to get over a handful of European mid-level riders. Is that really a price worth paying?

I respectfully disagree- and perhaps you've brought a realistic view of what might happen to the local teams, but I'm trying to portray an ambitious enterprise where we can enroll & recruit not only local talent but also local business/capital to invest in cycling- like once happened when mayor corporations like Cafe de Colombia, Varta & Postobon sponsored teams worth to compete around the world- and that labor only starts by taking the sport to the next level--- otherwise we're going to be stuck at the current level- which without taking any merit out of it-is simply "another national race" with no possibilities or ambitions to grow at all.

but going back to the topic- as I wrote-when ASO is aiming to create a race in our region, in this case in Argentina, In March-when a lot or pro riders are looking for an environment challenging enough and yet a new and refreshing race -we just cannot star questioning the whole thing without acknowledging the clear benefits of a race with that rank being part of the UCI calender...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But to make it ProTour, you're skipping levels. You can't just artificially make a race ProTour and think that that will make people care about it - look at races like the Canadian ones, the TDU and Eneco. Those are races that have the importance, but very few people target. Look through the entry requirements for races - making it ProTour will simply mean that ONLY the ProTour teams can go, and a national team. It's not really much of a national Tour if the home racers can't race, is it?

It's the Tour of California syndrome again - only at least at 2.HC, California has some chance to keep its American identity.

These races should go up through the rankings, and build their own identity.

If the race is 2.1 rated, you can have national sides, Continental teams, ProConti and ProTour teams. This could then encourage national sides to enter Continental status so as to be eligible to enter their national Tour, but also brings in the likes of Colombia es Pasión and EPM-UNE, who are Continental teams who don't get to utilise that status often, Funvic-Pindamonhangaba and the ProConti Scott-Marcondes César. That way, the ProTour teams that go are there because they want to be, not because they have to, and you can pad it out with other teams that WANT to be there. That way you create teams trying to win the race, and that makes it more prestigious than having the big teams but nobody giving a damn. Remember that other ASO events like Qatar and Oman have this status, and people still go to those. Being an ASO event will mean more ProTour and especially wildcard-requiring ProConti teams will want to go because they want to curry favour for a wildcard berth at the Tour!

Then, if it works at that status you can elevate it to 2.HC status. At this level, the only Continental teams allowed are those from the host country, and all others must be ProContinental or ProTour. That way you can keep a couple of Argentine teams who would have gone Continental to ride in the race before, but bring in more top teams from elsewhere.

It is only if the race is a success at this level that we should even THINK of making it ProTour. ProTour is turning it into an exclusive club, where only the elite teams get to play. These races need to have their own identity and thus need to have some kind of tie to their home nation, which means they should be built from the ground up to keep the national flavour. A Tour of Argentina needs to feel like an Argentinean Tour, otherwise they may as well just do it in France and save everybody the trip.

 

[DAOTEC]

Stages Tour de San Luis 2011 (17-23 Jan):

1ª Etapa (SAN LUIS – VILLA MERCEDES- JUSTO DARACT) 170 km aprox. (Cambiado el final)
2ª Etapa (JUANA KOSLAY-POTRERO-LAFLORIDA-SAN LUIS-LAPUNTA-MIRADOR POTRERO) 160km aprox.
3ª Etapa (BUENA ESPERANZA – VILLA MERCEDES) 170 km aprox. (Nueva)
4ª Etapa (CIUDAD DE SAN LUIS-C.R.I.) 19,5 km aprox. (Recorrido similar al año pasado)
5ª Etapa (LA TOMA- LA PUNILLA-COSTA DE COMECHINGONES-SANTA ROSA- MIRADOR DE MERLO) 170 km aprox.
6ª Etapa (SAN MARTIN- SAN FRANCISCO-LA CAROLINA) 140 km aprox.
7ª y ultima Etapa (SAN LUIS-SAN LUIS) 167km aprox.

 

[El Pistolero]

But to make it ProTour, you're skipping levels. You can't just artificially make a race ProTour and think that that will make people care about it - look at races like the Canadian ones, the TDU and Eneco. Those are races that have the importance, but very few people target. Look through the entry requirements for races - making it ProTour will simply mean that ONLY the ProTour teams can go, and a national team. It's not really much of a national Tour if the home racers can't race, is it?

It's the Tour of California syndrome again - only at least at 2.HC, California has some chance to keep its American identity.

These races should go up through the rankings, and build their own identity.

If the race is 2.1 rated, you can have national sides, Continental teams, ProConti and ProTour teams. This could then encourage national sides to enter Continental status so as to be eligible to enter their national Tour, but also brings in the likes of Colombia es Pasión and EPM-UNE, who are Continental teams who don't get to utilise that status often, Funvic-Pindamonhangaba and the ProConti Scott-Marcondes César. That way, the ProTour teams that go are there because they want to be, not because they have to, and you can pad it out with other teams that WANT to be there. That way you create teams trying to win the race, and that makes it more prestigious than having the big teams but nobody giving a damn. Remember that other ASO events like Qatar and Oman have this status, and people still go to those. Being an ASO event will mean more ProTour and especially wildcard-requiring ProConti teams will want to go because they want to curry favour for a wildcard berth at the Tour!

Then, if it works at that status you can elevate it to 2.HC status. At this level, the only Continental teams allowed are those from the host country, and all others must be ProContinental or ProTour. That way you can keep a couple of Argentine teams who would have gone Continental to ride in the race before, but bring in more top teams from elsewhere.

It is only if the race is a success at this level that we should even THINK of making it ProTour. ProTour is turning it into an exclusive club, where only the elite teams get to play. These races need to have their own identity and thus need to have some kind of tie to their home nation, which means they should be built from the ground up to keep the national flavour. A Tour of Argentina needs to feel like an Argentinean Tour, otherwise they may as well just do it in France and save everybody the trip.

I'm pretty sure that the UCI is trying to create a NEW Protour event there instead of turning the native cycling stage races into Protour events.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm pretty sure that the UCI is trying to create a NEW Protour event there instead of turning the native cycling stage races into Protour events.

It's the ASO doing it, but just making an event ProTour can't make the big names care about it. And if you make it ProTour and the big names don't care about it, it's just going to be another Eneco, or TDU. Start a race up, definitely. But allow it to develop its own characteristics. There should be something that this race can offer that others can't. Otherwise, why go halfway across the globe for it? Just being in South America won't do it - the only people who care about the TDU are Australians, and the only people who care about Cali race for American teams. And there aren't any Argentine teams, and very few Argentine riders, in the ProTour.

So, instead of being ProTour, put it a couple of steps below that. It'll still be the highest UCI-ranked event on the Continent, it will bring in some top names (especially if the ASO are in charge because teams will need to impress them for wildcard berths) but allow the unique, once-a-year treat of the South American teams like Funvic, Scott-Marcondes César and any others that turn up (Acme-Colmer, perhaps?) being able to compete with the Europeans. Undoubtedly you'd see Argentine and other South American teams stepping up to the Continental level to be able to face off against the PT and PC teams, and you'd be left with South American pros who build their season around the race competing with the likes of Vacansoleil, ISD, Androni, the French teams and others in the lower ranks of the top teams hoping to curry favour with the ASO; you'd have the Spanish teams probably wanting to send over youngsters and build from the ground up... and the local teams would have the chance to develop. I think that would make for a much better race than if we simply sent the whole ProTour circus over to Argentina but didn't let the Argentines compete.