Armstrong challenged by skier.

[cromagnon]

Cro-magnon is just used for the early modern humans. At a certain point, modern humans were no longer 'early', but that doesn't mean the population died out. Neanderthals went extinct, cro-magnon people just continued to stick around, having children, eventually producing us.

Cromags got shorter and lost their brow ridges and shoulder hair.

As for the cromag men, they also changed a lot

 

[Jonathan]

Cromags got shorter and lost their brow ridges and shoulder hair.

But did people with those features become extinct?

So sorry for bagging on about this, but when there's finally some science I know something about, I seize the opportunity. My point is that species and populations can become extinct, but I don't think cro-magnon was clearly either. Features (like shoulder hair) can disappear, although to the detriment of some this has not happened. I think some Lombroso types could still look a lot like a cro-magnon man.

And there is such a thing as micro-evolution, where a species change just a bit but don't go extinct. So even if you can recognize a cro-magnon skull by its shape, that still doesn't mean the group, whatever it is taken to be, died out. "Phased out" might do, yes.

 

[cromagnon]

Look at our own Eddie Merckx he's got caveman brow ridges. There are features caused by genes others are caused by testosterone or combination of bth. As an ex Rugby player I can tell you enough testosterone you can look like a gorilla and need to shave in a lot of places but be as strong as explosive as a gorilla too whether the hormone is natural or from elsewhere.

Look at the jawlines of female bodybuilders. Big lantern jawed women. How much can being under threat, violent society, hunting, tons of physical work from the moment you could walk etc raise your testosterone levels. Insufficient data. Dunno about growth hormone. Then there's biggest hardest most violent vicious badasses mating with all the women whether they agree to it or not. That sexual selection might drift over time when we started farming and stopped wrestling our food to the ground and clubbing it to death.

 

[San Carlo]

Ole Einar Bjørndalen, the best biathlete in the world, and also on of the best skiers rode Alp d'Huez on 43minutes some years ago. So some of the lightest skiers can climb really well, even if they don't ride ride a lot.

Edvald Boasson Hagen, Thor Hushovd and Kurt Asle Arvesen were all competing in XC skiing as juniors. And XC skiing is a very important part of their winter training. I have heard that also Moreau and G Simoni use XC-skiing in training.

 

[karlboss]

Cross country skiers have a heavy upper body? I'll dispute that, Strong I'll give you, but not heavy. Anyone remember jonothan edwards? a triple jumper skin and bones, but the guy had some amazing numbers in the gym.
Anyone with a Vo2 in the 90s can ride and ride well, exceptionally well after a year specific training, but Vo2 is far from the be all and end all of performance indicators, otherwise lance would never have won anything.

 

[Anonymous]

If it rains or there are commuter rails on the course, I put my money on the skier because Armstrong will just drop out.

 

[mambo#5]

what's next? Lance vs. the real shaq?

 

[cougie]

Didnt Lemond have a poor season one year after spending the winter XCS ? He put on a lot of upper body muscle - which doesnt help with climbing.

 

[TRDean]

Didnt Lemond have a poor season one year after spending the winter XCS ? He put on a lot of upper body muscle - which doesnt help with climbing.

Maybe, but apparently EBH and Lovkvist do a bit of XCS in the winter. And for the early classics a little extra weight isn't all that bad. You would have to really bulk up and I find that hard to believe from a single offseason of skiing.

I XCS in the offseason during the 80's and I didn't pack on the weight. Maybe if I was trying to be a competitive racer it would have helped...

Maybe some more knowledgable people can comment...RacerRalph is a big skier I think...

 

[sadfitty]

It's not the cross country skiing that makes you upper body heavy. During 2 hours of skiing your arms will do...what...a couple thousand reps? You don't go to the gym and do 2000 reps when you want to get big... Cross country skiers intentionally gain weight(muscles) in the upper body by doing heavy lifting at the gym 2-3 times a week...

 

[ethnik]

Lemond didn't gain upper body mass from XC skiing, he gained it from too much turkey at Thanksgiving

Whoever it was who mentioned Pierre Harvey back in the 80's, his son Alex is now on the XC World Cup circuit and at the tender age of 19 has already got a pile of top 10 finishes on his resume as well as medaling at the worlds for Canada.

He has also already spoken out loud about switching to cycling after this springs Winter Olympics and trying to medal in both summer and winter games!

 

[TRDean]

Lemond didn't gain upper body mass from XC skiing, he gained it from too much turkey at Thanksgiving

Whoever it was who mentioned Pierre Harvey back in the 80's, his son Alex is now on the XC World Cup circuit and at the tender age of 19 has already got a pile of top 10 finishes on his resume as well as medaling at the worlds for Canada.

He has also already spoken out loud about switching to cycling after this springs Winter Olympics and trying to medal in both summer and winter games!

That will be fun to watch...I wish him the best!!

 

[sadfitty]

Good luck to him, but I have a hard time seeing him taking a medal in Vancouver.
Cross country skiing program:
Sprint
Sprint relay
15 k skate
30 k pursuit
50 k classic
4*10 k Relay
Won't podium in the sprint events.
15 k skate could be a better chance, but still the podium seems a little out of reach.
The pursuit is Northug's race to lose, with Angrer, Teichmann, Södergren and perhaps a russian as runner ups..
50k could be an opportunity, although a slim one.
Doubt that Canada will podium in the realy. Norway, Italy, Germany and most likely Russia and Sweden will be stronger.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Petter Northug is a fantastic talent, who hopefully only will get better. But he would have no chance against Lance or other professional cyclists. He don't train a lot of cycling. But if he did cycling 100 percent I reckon he would be pretty good at it. Arvesen also was a good skier in his youth, but he choose cycling. And Dæhlie is the best cross-country skier ever IMO.

Arvesen was not a good skier at all. His best result at the junior norwegian championships was 20th place.

 

[9000ft]

Nordic skiers aren't muscle bound big and bulky like an NBA or pro football player although they certainly will have a lot more upper body than skeletal GT GC riders, which ain't saying much. I'd guess if they put in the time, focus, and gained the skills, re-trained their body, after a couple years or so an elite Nordic racer would have the potential to become an elite level cyclist.

No way though, would a Nordic skier without experience as a pro level cyclist be competitive in the pro peloton "off the couch".

 

[Velo Dude]

The guy is very fit and great at his sport but he rides a bike like a Moose.

I've never ridden a moose but I'll take your word for it.

 

[sublimit]

power to weight ratio must be more important.

Skiing does look a tough sport but i love the way rowers blow themselves to bits during races, obviously thats only for 7 or 8 minutes or whatever.

 

[pedaling squares]

Arvesen was not a good skier at all. His best result at the junior norwegian championships was 20th place.

20th place in Norway... isn't that like being the 20th best table tennis player in China? Sounds to me like he was a pretty good skier.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Well, it might not happen, but I absolutely would not bet against Northug in a race of any kind - that guy's got the most amazing sprint finish I've ever seen (sorry Cav.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cLDnp__1ao

He's a total animal.

Wow, that was Ricco-esque.

I find it amusing when athletes cross over and challenge another. Even if the guy had a mid-90's VO2, the specialty of cycling negates the majority of any advantage he'd have in the cardio dept. Like taking a dragrace car on Nürburgring.

Swimmers are another group with massive VO2's. You don't see them calling out xc ski racers or cyclists....

 

[sadfitty]

20th place in Norway... isn't that like being the 20th best table tennis player in China? Sounds to me like he was a pretty good skier.

Yes, thats pretty damn good. As a cyclist, his technique was probably not the best. Therefore, 20th is a great performance...

 

[goggalor]

Yes, thats pretty damn good. As a cyclist, his technique was probably not the best. Therefore, 20th is a great performance...

Actually, he only turned to cycling at 18. Before that he was an almost surprisingly poor skier. As Tyler'sTwin mentioned, his best result was around 20th in the junior nationals.

I suppose his talent for cycling was far greater, as he won the U-23 WC road race after only 4 years of full-time riding.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Actually, he only turned to cycling at 18. Before that he was an almost surprisingly poor skier. As Tyler'sTwin mentioned, his best result was around 20th in the junior nationals.

I suppose his talent for cycling was far greater, as he won the U-23 WC road race after only 4 years of full-time riding.

I really don't want to engage in a bash-a-thon, but you just floored me.

Can you help me understand how one can conclude that the 20th best junior skier in NORWAY is 'surprisngly' poor? One would think that if the best male skier and best female skier mated, they'd consider themselves pretty pleased if little Johnny won 20th in the junior nationals.

Who are his parents to rate a surprisingly poor 20th place for the Junior National Skiing Championship of NORWAY for their spawn? Zeus and Hera?

I am not trying to start an argument, but I read through the responses after the 1st mention of his 'poor' skiing and you STILL came back with 'surprisingly poor'. I just had to stop and respond.

15 minute penalty for being foolish.

 

[goggalor]

Surprisingly poor for someone who went on to win the cycling U23 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS only four years later, and who since has such success in the sport (which is much bigger than XC skiing).

 

[alberto.legstrong]

He who cannot be named.....

.... finished 97th in the 1995 tdf.

From wiki:
He was in 97th place overall when he abandoned the race in the Alps after the 12th stage.

I think we ventured pretty far off whatever the topic was ..... something about a skier and publicity and 'a certain Texan'.

(Use of the term 'A certain Texan' is a copyright infringement of the paul sherwen salad tossing foundation)


Tomato - to-MAH-to - let's call the whole thing off.

I'm letting it go now.

How did this thread revive itself after being on the shelf for like 6 months?

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Yes, thats pretty damn good. As a cyclist, his technique was probably not the best. Therefore, 20th is a great performance...

Obviously, I meant compared to his talent as a cyclist. Someone who couldn't manage more than a 20th place at the junior national championships wouldn't even be in the national top 100 as a senior unless he's a ridiculously late bloomer. Kurt actually didn't become a cyclist until he realized that XC skiing wasn't the sport for him.