ASO huge success with TdF 2012

[Forunculo]

Even if we are in the middle of the race I rate TdF 2012 as huge success


The most significant thing it's not the two brits lead, to me is the confirmation of the prologue and two long ITT (before and after heavy mountain stages). With the first ITT you avoid the embarrassment at the pyrenees last year or the Giro 2012 with attacks in the last 3km. (A limited GC rider like Purito was about to win)


1 - With much minutes down after the first ITT the brave riders emerge with long range attacks (Nibali, VdB, Pinot, Rolland, even Evans post Mendrisio) Some lack punch and others are too young or a little bit old but they deliver even with a strong team closing the race.

2 - We lack an equal strong team like Sky or a supertalent like Contador or Andy to make full use of the potential the parcours have. This has easy solution, wait for next year. Contador or Andy could ambush and effectively destroy the Sky train isolating Froome and Wiggo much before. Even if we miss them, the current riders on the race are hurting Sky till a certain degree. Yes they are 1-2 easily but we lack a strong team or a stronger rider like I said and this has solution.

3 - A generational/ideological change: The emerged riders from Armstrong era that submissively accept his regime and try to suck wheeling to defend a 3rd or 7th have been defeated today. (Valverde, Menchov, Zubeldia, Kloden, Leipheimer, Scarponi, Basso and a long etc were dropped by youngers riders who fought and risk a lot) In this group I give a special mention to Frank Schleck who was crying in the press the Tour was unbalanced... there are plenty of chances, but you want to attack in the last 3 km. With two long ITT we eliminate riders like Frank and avoid boring mountain stages. Movistar deserve a mention too with the famous Cobo and Valverde failing big but a great prospect like Quintana is in his house. If a climber beat an all-rounder we made ​​certain that epic stages in the mountains were done by that climber.

4 - The sum of the first three points give us an epic stage with long range attacks, cracks and funny races for hours. This is the TdF like should be and I hope ASO keep this idea. Some stages could be better designed like tomorrow stage, one more heavy mountain stage with no flat in the last 60-80 km or a puncheur stage with the finish line at the top or at the descent but it's good in the overall.

Sorry about the grammar and the long stuff.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Good post

I don't get the critics about the amount of ITT kms this year. 100k is a good average. Also, it could give more meaning to the Polka Dots jersey again.

 

[Kender]

Good post

I don't get the critics about the amount of ITT kms this year. 100k is a good average. Also, it could give more meaning to the Polka Dots jersey again.

the problem is not so much that 100km ITT is too much... it just that to balance that out, there is only 3 MTF and none of them are on a HC climb.

So the climbers have to attack from far out in a fruitless raid becasue they just get hauled back in anyway

I hope if they decide to do 100km ITT again they at least throw the climbers an Alpe D'Huez or similar.

 

[ericthesportsman6]

the problem is not so much that 100km ITT is too much... it just that to balance that out, there is only 3 MTF and none of them are on a HC climb.

So the climbers have to attack from far out in a fruitless raid becasue they just get hauled back in anyway

I hope if they decide to do 100km ITT again they at least throw the climbers an Alpe D'Huez or similar.

This. I have no problem with time trials, and I actually like having some mountain stages with descending finishes, but if you're going to have 100km of TT's, you need two or three truly difficult summit finishes for the climbers. That being said I have really enjoyed this year's Tour despite my hatred of Sky. I'm sick of all the whining on this board about boredom.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Entertaining stages were to La Tousuirre, La Planche des Belles Filles, Porrentruy and the TT. The rest have been rather mundane. Even those entertaining stages were more set up by the riders than the route set by ASO. The remainder of this year's route is rather pathetic imo.

 

[User Guide]

Something needs to be done about the first week,second year running utter carnage putting out 1/2 the gc contenders.Although nervy DS's and race radios havent helped.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Something needs to be done about the first week,second year running utter carnage putting out 1/2 the gc contenders.Although nervy DS's and race radios havent helped.

True. At least next year ASO can have mountain stage rather early in the piece knowing that they are starting in Corsica and riding around the south of France.

 

[42x16ss]

They CAN but chances are they won't....

Prudhomme needs to be ditched for Zomegnan!

 

[marioni]

I don't get the critics about the amount of ITT kms this year. 100k is a good average. Also, it could give more meaning to the Polka Dots jersey again.

100km of ITT is fantastic, but it should be balanced with more proper mountain stages and MTF. Time bonuses too.

 

[42x16ss]

It's no coincidence that exciting racing at the tour went out the window in 2008 - the same year that bonuses were scrapped.

 

[the asian]

This years' edition is not balanced at all. It's heavily tilted towards the Time Triallers. There are only 3 MT finishes, of which none of them are HC.
There must be far more tougher stages and MT finishes to balance out the 100 KM of TT. There aren't enough stages for the Climbers to take back time lost on TTs.
This type of parcourse only benefit Super Rich teams and limited all round riders like Bradley Wiggins who isn't even the strongest rider on his team.

 

[Ferminal]

7, 8, 9 and 11 all great. Before that a snore but we have come to expect this. On paper, the Tour was always going to be way ahead of the Giro at this stage.

Sadly there are nine days of racing to go, and only two mountain stages.

 

[Cimber]

Entertaining for hours? I think u need to be a limey to find this Tour interesting. I have found this Tour rather dull, since even if they take 3-5 mins on Wiggins we all know that he will take it back on the last TT.

I could live with 2 TTs but then they need to be shorted since the gaps on the 1st one were to big, and the last TT is even longer. 2 x 30km TTs maybe og just 1 long one. 100 km TTing is to much, especially when there are so few mountain finishes. This is basically a course tailormade for a guy like Wiggins. I prefer a course to be more diversified so that the pure climbers have a shot too.

Disregarding all the crashes last year was much better. But tbh it isnt the course that primarily makes it dull or exciting, its the riders. I think the reason last year was so good was cos no team was able to control it like Sky. 2010 was pretty good too. to me 2012, so far, is worse than 2011 and 2010. That can still change of course.

Maybe they cut down on the mountains this year to make next years 100 year edition even more spetacular in comparison.

 

[the asian]

Entertaining for hours? I think u need to be a limey to find this Tour interesting. I have found this Tour rather dull, since even if they take 3-5 mins on Wiggins we all know that he will take it back on the last TT.

I could live with 2 TTs but then they need to be shorted since the gaps on the 1st one were to big, and the last TT is even longer. 2 x 30km TTs maybe og just 1 long one. 100 km TTing is to much, especially when there are so few mountain finishes. This is basically a course tailormade for a guy like Wiggins. I prefer a course to be more diversified so that the pure climbers have a shot too.

Disregarding all the crashes last year was much better. But tbh it isnt the course that primarily makes it dull or exciting, its the riders. I think the reason last year was so good was cos no team was able to control it like Sky. 2010 was pretty good too. to me 2012, so far, is worse than 2011 and 2010. That can still change of course.

Maybe they cut down on the mountains this year to make next years 100 year edition even more spetacular in comparison.

I only hope that is the case. But with Christian Prudhomme in charge, I doubt that would be happen.

 

[JibberJim]

I think the ITT/MTF balance would've been okay, had we not had the unfortunate situation of the money and strength that the best 2 TTers have being on the same team and with at least 3 other guys who can set pace on the mountains. There's simply too much strength in that team which has the impact that it neutralizes almost all the climbing.

Sky would almost certainly have won without Rogers, Porte and EBH, but they would've lost time on some mountain stages but taken back enough in the TT's, with the domestiques there they've made the race boring.

 

[escartin]

as the others have said, the problem is not so much how TTkm there is but that it is not really compensated by the MTFs. plus the fact that both TT are pretty much flat, chuck in a mountain TT or even just one with a few hills and it would have been better and fairer.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Maybe they cut down on the mountains this year to make next years 100 year edition even more spetacular in comparison.

I hope so.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Even if we are in the middle of the race I rate TdF 2012 as huge success

As you said, still early in the race. With the rest most likely to be boring and with another ITT coming, the GC race is basically over. Podium is about set. And I don't see any serious mountain stages coming to shake things up.

1 - With much minutes down after the first ITT the brave riders emerge with long range attacks (Nibali, VdB, Pinot, Rolland, even Evans post Mendrisio) Some lack punch and others are too young or a little bit old but they deliver even with a strong team closing the race.

You name 4 names, but both VdB and Pinot are that far back already than Sky can afford to let them ride away. With Evans out they only really need to watch for Nibali, who indeed tried something, but that attack was clearly not going anywhere.

2 - We lack an equal strong team like Sky or a supertalent like Contador or Andy to make full use of the potential the parcours have. This has easy solution, wait for next year. Contador or Andy could ambush and effectively destroy the Sky train isolating Froome and Wiggo much before. Even if we miss them, the current riders on the race are hurting Sky till a certain degree. Yes they are 1-2 easily but we lack a strong team or a stronger rider like I said and this has solution.

So basically your point 2 is that the Tour isn't exciting. Because Sky hasn't been under pressure that much at all.

[3 - A generational/ideological change: The emerged riders from Armstrong era that submissively accept his regime and try to suck wheeling to defend a 3rd or 7th have been defeated today. (Valverde, Menchov, Zubeldia, Kloden, Leipheimer, Scarponi, Basso and a long etc were dropped by youngers riders who fought and risk a lot) In this group I give a special mention to Frank Schleck who was crying in the press the Tour was unbalanced... there are plenty of chances, but you want to attack in the last 3 km. With two long ITT we eliminate riders like Frank and avoid boring mountain stages. Movistar deserve a mention too with the famous Cobo and Valverde failing big but a great prospect like Quintana is in his house. If a climber beat an all-rounder we made ​​certain that epic stages in the mountains were done by that climber.

What change? I'm not seeing it. The only thing I see is people at place 6+ not even bothering with the GC anymore, but instead going stagehunting. The top 10 at the moment is the weakest I have ever seen. Schleck was never going to do anything this Tour, because the ITT takes him out by default and there aren't enough mountains to make up time even if he wanted.

[4 - The sum of the first three points give us an epic stage with long range attacks, cracks and funny races for hours. This is the TdF like should be and I hope ASO keep this idea. Some stages could be better designed like tomorrow stage, one more heavy mountain stage with no flat in the last 60-80 km or a puncheur stage with the finish line at the top or at the descent but it's good in the overall.

This Tour has been in line with others. Last year had 2 boring weeks followed by 1 exciting end. This one had 1 boring week, 1 somewhat exciting one, but still one more to come. With the GC situation like it is, I don't expect much of that one.

 

[hughmoore]

Part of the problem is the obscene amount of time Wiggans and Froome took in the TT which no one would have expected.

If Wiggans time had been similar to Cancellara as most would have expected, then this would be a whole different ball game.

Neverless, well done to Sky boys for outstanding TT's.

Did anyone on CN predict a 57 second gap to Canc?

Hugh

 

[Forunculo]

As you said, still early in the race. With the rest most likely to be boring and with another ITT coming, the GC race is basically over. Podium is about set. And I don't see any serious mountain stages coming to shake things up.



You name 4 names, but both VdB and Pinot are that far back already than Sky can afford to let them ride away. With Evans out they only really need to watch for Nibali, who indeed tried something, but that attack was clearly not going anywhere.



So basically your point 2 is that the Tour isn't exciting. Because Sky hasn't been under pressure that much at all.



What change? I'm not seeing it. The only thing I see is people at place 6+ not even bothering with the GC anymore, but instead going stagehunting. The top 10 at the moment is the weakest I have ever seen. Schleck was never going to do anything this Tour, because the ITT takes him out by default and there aren't enough mountains to make up time even if he wanted.



This Tour has been in line with others. Last year had 2 boring weeks followed by 1 exciting end. This one had 1 boring week, 1 somewhat exciting one, but still one more to come. With the GC situation like it is, I don't expect much of that one.

I'm not talking about this current edition but a bigger picture for next years. The two long ITT must be secured, and of course add one more hard mountain stage.


VdB and Pinot are far... yes but Frank Schleck too and you can see the difference of attitude

 

[slim charles]

I don't know, I've thought Giro was underwhelming, but this Tour was even less interesting. I get the need for a lot of TT kilometers [even though I find TT boring], but there are no mountains. And mountains are fun. Mountains are what produces heroic efforts. This year there were few tries by 2-3 riders, the rest was just control. Reminds me of the way Spain played thie Euro. Control everything, take no risks... Except with Spain you have the feeling you are watching truly one of the best teams ever. On this tour, the only feeling I have is I am watching a strong Sky on a parcours that was made for exactly for them.
I don't see how this could be considered 'huge success'. Even small success seems like stretching it.
I'd much rather watch a Tour with small amount of TT and a lot of mountains, but that's just me. What seems the best thing is to keep this much TT and add a lot more high mountains.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

The two long ITT must be secured, and of course add one more hard mountain stage.

This Tour would have been far more exciting if either the previous ITT was hilly/shorter OR the second ITT wouldn't be on the schedule for later. In your first post you completely forgot there is yet another ITT to come. People like VdB, Rolland and Pinot lose 4+ minutes in those ITTs alone, if not more. That means Sky can basically ignore them, because Wiggins will never lose 4 minutes unless he cracks. And he won't crack if he won't have to ride harder than he decides. Even with more mountains Wiggins would just cruise to victory in the last ITT.

Basically I don't get this obsession with 100km of ITT lots of people on this forum have/had. That much ITT might have made interesting Tours years ago, but it just doesn't work anymore. The true climber that is capable of gaining back 4 minutes doesn't exist anymore. Even if you put 5+ mountain top finishes on the route, it still won't work. And really, if you look at the past 20 years or so, most have been decided in the ITT. A better idea might be removing the ITT completely.

 

[Sophistic]

100k ITT is fine but as others have pointed out, the mountain stages are poorly designed. The final climbs in the 4 high mountain stages average between 5 and 6,7% and 2 of them are shorter than 10k, thats simply not tough enough.
The Tour is not the Giro and nobody expects Zoncolan type MTFs but the stages should finish with climbs as tough as Ventoux, Tourmalet, AdHz and so on.

 

[will10]

It's no coincidence that exciting racing at the tour went out the window in 2008 - the same year that bonuses were scrapped.

Did we watch the same Tour '08??

 

[guncha]

This route provides the opposite – it is failed route. And yesterday we saw why it is failure: contenders can harm Wiggins and Froome only in the hardest mountain stages. In medium mountains, in stages with HC 40km+ it is impossible. But … when fun began there are no other GC mountain stages for a week and only two stages are left. 100km of ITT is fine but it should be balanced with at least 5 multiple climb GC stages.

I have already stated many times ASO should have put Colombier as MTF or climb it via its hardest side and finish in Culoz (in this case we would have two GC stages in a row and Toussuire would have been even bigger carnage) + cut unnecessary loop around Foix. Also instead of rumored PSM they went to Pau...