BC , whats the forum view?

[Darryl Webster]

For quite some time now British Track Cycling has been right at the top of podium yet I read, see and hear very little re possibe doping practices.
It seems most assume it`s a clean house.
Is this the general concensus or do clinic forumites believe its more likely there running a very tight ship?

I`m curios because I know of skeletons in staff history and ( though not so recently ) there were several riders I knew who raised there game to a leval that from personal knowledge of I wouldnt have given credibility.
That doesnt mean I believe they doped but it causes me doupts.

Thoughts gents?..and ladies.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Thoughts gents?..and ladies.

Good thing you added that......

Susan

 

[Roland Rat]

I believe the youngsters are clean - G, Swifty etc.

There's nothing to suggest there was a programme and having been involved in the mid-90's as a junior I personally don't believe there was. The obvious blemish is Rob Hayles and whilst I believe he was a rogue bringing in his own programme from Cofidis, he was protected to some extent by BC even if he never rode for them again.

Wiggins, I have doubts about his 2009 blood values but I want to believe he was clean. I believe at Sky he's clean.

 

[Samwise]

Of course doping is a possibility, but i think track cycling is a very different thing to road cycling. Track cycling is a sport only really taken seriously by a handful of countries, of whom the best funded by far is GB. There's nothing like the level of competition compared with road, which is where everyone who's really anyone will be. As a result, I can believe that GB, with the millions more they spend on it, could dominate cleanly. Also, the number of different disciplines and lengths etc means there's a broader range of athletic profiles that can be brought in, with physiques like Hoy who clearly would never be able to compete on the road. Doping is not, I think, a prerequisite to success in the velodrome.

 

[SaftyCyclist]

I know too many folks who've been partially through, or within the system and never heard a thing from them about anything dodgy, even the ones who were bitter about being pushed out, the ones who had an axe to grind would surely have been liable to 'spill the beans'. I'm pretty sure there's no active programme, if anybody is doing anyhing it's without the knowledge of the coaches, with the amount of testing going on I'm sure anybody would be found out very soon. I'm just starting a BC coaching course to become a club coach, everything seems very ethics based and there's a huge chunk on this kind of stuff. I think it may just be a ruthless approach, they offload very talented riders who don't quite make the mark, then keep the very best, so maybe there's a case of natural selection in there.
But they did mess up with Dan Martin, but I'm sure they've got kind of ability profile covered these days.

 

[Ferminal]

Australian team is pretty much the same.

Obviously had the doping ring amongst the sprinters several years ago. Who knows whether or not that is standard practice these days, but times certainly haven't slowed down...

As for the endurance trackies, you can only hope that G, Bobridge, Phinney etc are pure, we don't really have a "dirty baseline" or clean baseline to compare them with (or do we?).

 

[BotanyBay]

Good thing you added that......

Susan

On that note, it'd be nice to see you mix it up every so often. Put the yardstick down and join in!

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

On that note, it'd be nice to see you mix it up every so often. Put the yardstick down and join in!

Sorry, I don't feel I can do that. I cannot express opinions here and still maintain my journalistic neutrality.

Susan

 

[euanli]

You do seem to have a hard on for finding fault in British Cycling.

Regardless. Besides the coachs (which frankly everywhere have dodgy pasts) there has been nothing said about the current lot doping.

 

[Monte Zoncolon]

Obviously British Track Cycling has enjoyed huge success of late. Alot of investment has been put toward it. Which has helped facilitate the emergence of new talent, in greater numbers than ever before.

But when it comes to Cycling, You can never discount the possibility of someone using performance enhancing drugs.

With that been said though, You cannot point the finger of suspicion at an Athlete without evidence, to substantiate Your claims.

Gary Edward's and Neill Campbell are two British Track Cyclists who have tested positive for banned substances.

 

[SaftyCyclist]

As a direct note to the guy who started this thread, Darryl I have absolutely no doubt that had the BC system been in place when you were a lad, they'd have held onto you kicking and screaming. When you were at that age I expect the most BC gave you was a possibly crash damaged & ill fitting skinsuit on short term loan, funding makes a hell of a difference, I've heard some horror stories of the amount of support riders got in the past.

 

[Darryl Webster]

You do seem to have a hard on for finding fault in British Cycling.

Regardless. Besides the coachs (which frankly everywhere have dodgy pasts) there has been nothing said about the current lot doping.

My bigest gripe ( and the one heard most) is BC`s neglect of domestic road racing. Nothing to do with doping.
As for doping I`d like to belive its a clean house and nothing of significance has sugested otherwise regards the Track Teams.
I am cynical about some back room staff but I`m optimistic that they`ve not brought ( or being allowed) to there prior activities to the party.
Im genuinly interested to know the concensus and so far its pleasing to see a possitive responce from peeps who`ve followed things far closer than I.

 

[bobbins]

As far as I know the BC teams are all target tested in and out of competition by UK sport as well as their own tests. UK sport is independent of BC. The view of the BC staff and riders is that just 1 positive could end the entire program so there is less pressure to dope there than in professional teams for example.

Some of the staff may have 'history' but it is only here say. Darryl isn't prepared to go on the record and has no evidence. The days when he was racing were the days of Vit B injections etc so simply having an injection means nothing. Why not be proud of what BC is now compared to what it was when he was racing? The same nepotism does seem to exist but they get results that would only have been the stuff of dreams 10 years ago.

 

[Roland Rat]

My bigest gripe ( and the one heard most) is BC`s neglect of domestic road racing. Nothing to do with doping.

I'd agree with that. My biggest gripe is why haven't they sorted out a u23 euro road team? For men and women. Surely Sky have the budget for it and it would do a huge amount for the future roadies.

 

[Roland Rat]

As a direct note to the guy who started this thread, Darryl I have absolutely no doubt that had the BC system been in place when you were a lad, they'd have held onto you kicking and screaming. When you were at that age I expect the most BC gave you was a possibly crash damaged & ill fitting skinsuit on short term loan, funding makes a hell of a difference, I've heard some horror stories of the amount of support riders got in the past.

True dat. A lot of talent went to waste. At least it's better now though, even if still too biased to the track.

 

[bobbins]

I'd agree with that. My biggest gripe is why haven't they sorted out a u23 euro road team? For men and women. Surely Sky have the budget for it and it would do a huge amount for the future roadies.

So you are expecting BC to organise road races, run another U23 team and have womens U23 and O23 teams. Sky are already sponsoring grass roots cycling and a pro team and a track team and BC but I guess that just isn't enough for some people!!

The problems around race organisation are more political and BC are in dialogue with the government but they need race organisers to organise races. Not much to ask is it that each club organises races but that'll never.......

 

[Darryl Webster]

As a direct note to the guy who started this thread, Darryl I have absolutely no doubt that had the BC system been in place when you were a lad, they'd have held onto you kicking and screaming. When you were at that age I expect the most BC gave you was a possibly crash damaged & ill fitting skinsuit on short term loan, funding makes a hell of a difference, I've heard some horror stories of the amount of support riders got in the past.

The bigest issue BC had in reality was poor coaching. In 1980 I was part of a squad that got a bronze at the Junior Worlds team persuit. We were coached by Willi Moore at the US Olympic Training Camp in Collorado . Willi was great coach, desiplined and above all honest and showed no favour.
That medal was hailed as a bit of a breakthrough and hopes were high.
Unfortunatly for reasons I`ve never found out, Willi resigned during the winter 1980/81 and it wasnt untill Peter Keen arrived on the scene that the BCF had the right man who was able to move things forward.
The personal funding of riders was in almost all cases met by riders, riders families and club/ personal sponsors. Many , myself included, got by on around £35 week Unemployment Benifit of personal income plus whatever we picked up in prize money.
It`s great to see the succes enjoyed these days and it would be churlish of me to not be possitive about that.
What I think though is that the emphasis on Elite compettion has overshadowed other , important aspects of a federations work, the support of a domestic road program and grass routes compettion.
Theres a lot of grumbling about this.
Pendalum swings I guess eh?

 

[Anonymous]

BC may be grabbing a lot of the podiums, but ultimately they spend a lot of the time beating up on the smaller nations gila style.
Exactly the same could be said of the aussies who do a lot of podium grabbing themselves, again, against pretty poor opposition.

its rare with the format of the world cup that the top nations are actually at the same event outside of the world championships.

I think doping on the track is far far less prevalent than on the road. (thats all countries not just BC)

 

[blackcat]

For quite some time now British Track Cycling has been right at the top of podium yet I read, see and hear very little re possibe doping practices.
It seems most assume it`s a clean house.
Is this the general concensus or do clinic forumites believe its more likely there running a very tight ship?

I`m curios because I know of skeletons in staff history and ( though not so recently ) there were several riders I knew who raised there game to a leval that from personal knowledge of I wouldnt have given credibility.
That doesnt mean I believe they doped but it causes me doupts.

Thoughts gents?..and ladies.

dirty dirty dirty. Look at Sir's facial bone plate morphology. I have heard rumours of experimental stuff. Gene stuff.

But wait for Sky Cycling/Dim to assume like AusCyclingFan, they are pure(r) than snow.

 

[Anonymous]

But wait for Sky Cycling/Dim to assume like AusCyclingFan, they are pure(r) than snow.

well ive already said my bit so bad luck. I said the doping on the track is less prevalent than the road. Never said it was clean. Nice try though.

What have you got against BC anyway. Youre very bitter

 

[blackcat]

nah, u are just as deluded as AucCycle Dim.

 

[Fester]

Any extra ordinary medal haul, any amazing performance in any sport has a big (?) over it.

With 2012 nearly upon us, we will see the a rerun of the charade that is the Olympics and undoubtedly we will see record medal hauls by the small island and more records will fall. Hopefully it is Sport Science making the difference!

 

[andy1234]

I believe the youngsters are clean - G, Swifty etc.

There's nothing to suggest there was a programme and having been involved in the mid-90's as a junior I personally don't believe there was.

You would have been involved with the BCF in the mid 90s, not BC.
Completely different organisation as you well know.

A few part time coaches and an old boys network was a far cry from the professional setup of BC today.

I would bet my mortgage that there is no programme within BC today and I can guarantee there wasnt one in the mid 90s.(though the results of the time are probably proof enough)

 

[bobbins]

You would have been involved with the BCF in the mid 90s, not BC.
Completely different organisation as you well know.

A few part time coaches and an old boys network was a far cry from the professional setup of BC today.

I would bet my mortgage that there is no programme within BC today and I can guarantee there wasnt one in the mid 90s.(though the results of the time are probably proof enough)

You mean The British Cycling Federation trading as British Cycling. It is still the BCF I'm afraid and there is still the same nepotism and old boys network going on in Manchester.

There are rumours of a program being tested out in the 90s and of cover ups prior to Athens and Beijing so don't kid yourself.

As far as the track program goes, they are all tested and as far as I am aware are all clean.

 

[blackcat]

there are programs and there are systematic "programs". If there is plausible deniability, and the riders share their source, the IP, the inside info, secret docs in Manchester etc, that is really no different. That is how I expect it to operate. Go over on your 'crit, and you will be protected as being sick, having diarrhea, being dehydrated.