Being Pulled from a Race

[yespatterns]

With all thats going on with Sky this season and some recent references to test-dodging pullouts, I am curious as to some memorable historical examples (and since it's the clinic, speculation obviously ).

 

[red_flanders]

One of the, if not the most notorious in my race-watching lifetime: http://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/17/sports/cycling-illness-forces-entire-pdm-team-to-quit-tour.html

The PDM debacle.

Note that this is the team LeMond previously left due to pressure to dope: http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-25/sports/sp-95_1_greg-lemond

Should inform the other thread somewhat.

 

[red_flanders]

One of the, if not the most notorious in my race-watching lifetime: http://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/17/sports/cycling-illness-forces-entire-pdm-team-to-quit-tour.html

The PDM debacle.

Note that this is the team LeMond previously left due to pressure to dope: http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-25/sports/sp-95_1_greg-lemond

Should inform the other thread somewhat.

 

[yespatterns]

Second link isn't working, but i checked out their wiki... definitely some interesting alumni there...

 

[red_flanders]

Sorry, updated: http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-25/sports/sp-95_1_greg-lemond

Also fixed above.

 

[red_flanders]

Despite some language/translation issues, this is an all time article:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec1.html

Sound familiar?

PDM manager Manfred Krikke prepared a military style operation for the 1991 Tour de France. The yearly sporting and publicity event in the Alps and the Pyrenees was an opportunity that could not be lost. The previous year, public favourite Erik Breukink arrived in Paris in third place. He was a potential Tour winner. His best years were to come. The whole team was approaching top form. Now must be their chance.

Hotels were personally inspected for their peace and quiet, with cooks checking out the eating conditions, riders were personally selected and prepared, the medical routines were sharpened, and a complete contact book for media was designed. Ex-commando Krikke did not want anything to go amiss in what he thought would be the teams' biggest yaer. And everything was set in place.

Attempting to avoid the positive due to "influenza":

Gisbers had always declared that the team was free from dispute. Coming into the 1991 Tour de France, PDM had another painful affair to deal with. In the Driedaagse van De Panne (3 Days of the Panne) Gert Jakobs tested positive. He claimed during the stage "to be suffering from a small dose of influenza", but this has been later interpreted that he knew he would be tested at the end of the stage and was seeking to evade it.

Rinse and repeat. Great stuff.

In 1991, PDM was clearly the best team in the world. It was the Ajax of cycling. The best riders, the best management, the most money, publicity and all the form. There appeared to be nothing wrong. Gisbers was the man and his reputation was outstanding.

Pulling out of the TdF:

The image of the PDM riders shivering miserably after they had stopped riding and having to get support to get back to their hotel rooms, was shown the whole world over. The complete team of favourites, with 3 men leading the GC, had to retire home with influenza, feverish and in obvious pain. Everywhere there was bewilderment.

Naturally it was hard to expose the doping. A game of lies and deceit followed. The PDM management came with another explanation. Salmonella, influenza, a virus, upset stomach, an infection. In panic Gisbers also said that he himself felt sick himself.

Again, sounds so eerily familiar...

This week, the PDM manager of the day Manfred Krikke spoke, after he was confronted with the revelations, though reluctantly: "When we started PDM we decided that we would not be the most ethical team in the peloton. The one rule imposed from the PDM directors was that there was to be "no drug affairs" rather than "no drug taking. Within this direction, we experimented with products that were just within or over the edge of legality. Just like in other sports.

 

[Netserk]

According to Lemond, PDM were already blood doping (transfusions) in '88 and '89, but I'm not sure if the '91 was transfusions going wrong or what caused it.

 

[D-Queued]

Speaking of surprising downturns in health, don't forget the Festina Flu.

HCT scores were so high that they had to go into hiding.

Dave.

 

[MarkvW]

You only have so many blood cells. EPO unnaturally jacks up the number of oxygen-carrying red blood cells at the expense of the infection-fighting white blood cells. By reducing the WBC population, I would suspect that EPO dosing would increase a rider's risk of catching a virus or a bacterial infection.

I'm skeptical that even "legitimate" withdrawals from races due to sickness are often the product of immune systems weakened by EPO abuse.

It would be interesting to graph sickness-withdrawals from the EPO era against sickness withdrawals from the pre-EPO era.

 

[D-Queued]

You only have so many blood cells. EPO unnaturally jacks up the number of oxygen-carrying red blood cells at the expense of the infection-fighting white blood cells. By reducing the WBC population, I would suspect that EPO dosing would increase a rider's risk of catching a virus or a bacterial infection.

I'm skeptical that even "legitimate" withdrawals from races due to sickness are often the product of immune systems weakened by EPO abuse.

It would be interesting to graph sickness-withdrawals from the EPO era against sickness withdrawals from the pre-EPO era.

Are you sure about that?

Don't white blood cells normally exit the vascular system to do their special functions?

Dave.

 

[red_flanders]

According to Lemond, PDM were already blood doping (transfusions) in '88 and '89, but I'm not sure if the '91 was transfusions going wrong or what caused it.

It's never been totally clear what caused it, but intralipid was blamed at the time.

 

[jens_attacks]

1962 tour de france...one of my favourite stories

the trouts that were not fresh (allegedly) made around 15 riders abandon in one stage,nencini among them. the arms race was getting extremely dangerous.
2014 at least we don't have three manzano cases per stage.


also one of my fav cycling videos ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVAknjyZW0g

from 10:40, they talk about "la charge"

you gotta feel for these guys,pro cyclists.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

1962 tour de france...one of my favourite stories

the trouts that were not fresh (allegedly) made around 15 riders abandon in one stage,nencini among them. the arms race was getting extremely dangerous.
2014 at least we don't have three manzano cases per stage.


also one of my fav cycling videos ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVAknjyZW0g

from 10:40, they talk about "la charge"

you gotta feel for these guys,pro cyclists.

One day I will tell you guys about the doped up Marga Fullana cortisone incident at Mt Ste Anne. She was 'overserved' by Gert, rushed to hospital, lied about the injections, and was administered MORE cortisone.....

 

[MarkvW]

Are you sure about that?

Don't white blood cells normally exit the vascular system to do their special functions?

Dave.

I'm not sure at all. Am I getting it wrong?

 

[yespatterns]

I know over-population of red blood cells can cause issues (polycythemia), but im also pretty much in the dark about ratios in terms of stuffing more red blood cells in with the whites.

 

[El_ojo_del_Tigre]

It's never been totally clear what caused it, but intralipid was blamed at the time.

Andere tijden did a documentary on it a few years ago (in dutch):

http://www.uitzendinggemist.nl/afleveringen/71860

They argue rather convincingly that the pullout in '91 was indeed due to the careless handling of the Intralipid. The team blamed tainted chicken at first. Here's a text version (dutch).

 

[TheGame]

Its called a cortisone break.

Check how many riders pull out of races before the final stage, or penultimate stage and just happen to then have an eight day window before their next race.

Check Tirreno this year for example.

 

[red_flanders]

1962 tour de france...one of my favourite stories

the trouts that were not fresh (allegedly) made around 15 riders abandon in one stage,nencini among them. the arms race was getting extremely dangerous.
2014 at least we don't have three manzano cases per stage.


also one of my fav cycling videos ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVAknjyZW0g

from 10:40, they talk about "la charge"

you gotta feel for these guys,pro cyclists.

Great video, thx for sharing.

Love this thread.

 

[elapid]

You only have so many blood cells. EPO unnaturally jacks up the number of oxygen-carrying red blood cells at the expense of the infection-fighting white blood cells. By reducing the WBC population, I would suspect that EPO dosing would increase a rider's risk of catching a virus or a bacterial infection.

I'm skeptical that even "legitimate" withdrawals from races due to sickness are often the product of immune systems weakened by EPO abuse.

It would be interesting to graph sickness-withdrawals from the EPO era against sickness withdrawals from the pre-EPO era.

Red cells are independent of white cells. So an increased red cell count does not alter the white cell count or the differential white cell count.

While red cells stay in circulation, white cells will migrate out of the marrow and circulation into the tissues when there is an infection.

Increased red cells is only usually referred to as polycythemia when the hematocrit is > 55%.

 

[D-Queued]

I'm not sure at all. Am I getting it wrong?

Does this help?

Red cells are independent of white cells. So an increased red cell count does not alter the white cell count or the differential white cell count.

While red cells stay in circulation, white cells will migrate out of the marrow and circulation into the tissues when there is an infection.

Increased red cells is only usually referred to as polycythemia when the hematocrit is > 55%.

Pls recall that the 'health' issue with EPO is that, allegedly, your blood starts to turn to sludge which can, allegedly, cause problems with your heart.

Supposedly some people died.

Though, in fairness, other people say that is just a rumor.

Dave.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Red cells are independent of white cells. So an increased red cell count does not alter the white cell count or the differential white cell count.

While red cells stay in circulation, white cells will migrate out of the marrow and circulation into the tissues when there is an infection.

Increased red cells is only usually referred to as polycythemia when the hematocrit is > 55%.

I did a quick pubmed search and found one study that showed depressed white cell production after an EPO injection.

 

[platinum_eagle]

Did you ever know that too much of hematocrit(HCT) isn't good for cyclist? The best value is 2-3 unit above your normally "good level". If it is more than 3 unit usually its very hard to breathe, legs are very heavy(of course u "have the legs" and you are faster but you feel that legs are heavy), you have headache. You feel like you are "acidulated" like after long training. You also have a feeling like "pricking" in your heart. When you are going sleep your HR can really slow down and make sort of like "apnea" for a while or couple of minutes. I really know what I'm writing about. Trust me.
So I mean if you have normally your good level about 45% it is better to have a 48% of HCT, but have a good hemoglobin(HGB). Remember also that for some guys a good level of natural HCT is like 42%. It is just a number and it is variable for each of cyclist. Blood can't be too much "concentrated". Ok.. it can be but in one day race, one big stage(like transfusion).. but not for a 3 weeks of racing. From several years cyclist are focuses on HGB. Good HGB = very good breathing without problems, nice HR in racing etc. Some books, literature and rumors say that L.Armstrong using Oxyglobin and Actovegin for a boost HGB to like a 21 units while his HCT was about 45%. Perfect combination. It is very hard to do that. If it was true, I'm truly impressed. Why hard to do that? Because usually when youve got better HGB our HCT also gets higher.

Even in training camps when your HCT is to much and you don't fell as good as schould be you get a simple 500ml of sodium natrium(and usually some electrolytes like magnesium, potasium) vine drip chamber infusion to dilute your blood a little. Or it is common to drain a one bag of your blood to make a transfusion in before race. Why not? If you have a good blood parameters in training camp, which usually is in moutains, you can do it. Your blood will recover faster than normally because of high altitude. And one bag of blood may be useful in future. Remember that Contador get clenbuterol warning in 2010 also with "plasticizers" notice in his blood? Maybe he just used clenbuterol in training camp and his blood was not clean and ready to drain it. Thats why after transfusion in TdF he got busted about clenbuterol.

Remember that cortisone also increase a blood parameters. That is the truth. It perfectly works when you take it by inject a day before race like a one hour before you go sleep. Like 100mg of Hydrocortisonum. It is risky, but that is the part of winning. In my opinion it is still very common drug. I think for cyclist it is good drug even in this days. Don't you remember that Gilbert got busted on to much of cortison level? Heh. You know that his masseur Freddie Viaene was also a masseur and assistant of L.Armstrong? I can't remember exactly, but if I'm not mistaken Freddie come to BMC after he worked in Lotto. But I'm not sure. I hope it is not true that Gilbert good classics form was based on drugs. "-_-" What about Europcar cortisone problems in 2011? painful truth, painful.

 

[jens_attacks]

But I'm not sure. I hope it is not true that Gilbert good classics form was based on drugs. "-_-" What about Europcar cortisone problems in 2011? painful truth, painful.

lots of cortisone only can't make you win the ardennes treble or fly in the alpes. not in the era of jetfuel,our time. the rumours were that after 2011, both phil and europcar stars were sent letters because they were flying too close to the sun. biopassport like a true mountain stage.

but those said, we absolutely shouldn't minimize the importance of cortisone in cycling history.see bernard hinault.

interesting story about lance.how exactly can you do that? my highest hemoglobin was 17.3 but hematocrit also a little above 50. very true anyway about what you said(this is posts i like to read in the mighty clinic). look at rasmussen what he did with very normal values in 2005 tour, hematocrit only 43 or something. he was flying mouth closed on the mountains.

 

[platinum_eagle]

interesting story about lance.how exactly can you do that? my highest hemoglobin was 17.3 but hematocrit also a little above 50. very true anyway about what you said(this is posts i like to read in the mighty clinic). look at rasmussen what he did with very normal values in 2005 tour, hematocrit only 43 or something. he was flying mouth closed on the mountains.

BTW. I edited my post and add some info.
I can't tell you how you can do that because I don't want to get ban on this forum etc. "He who seeks shall find"

I didint know about that low level of Rasmussen HCT. But it was measured after a stages each day? How you know that parameters?

"not in the era of jetfuel"
Now the jetfuel is all realated in gene doping and telmisartan mixtures.

 

[jens_attacks]

seems like even under 40 in 2005 tdf