Best high end Road bike bargain you have ever seen?

[durianrider]

How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this cheap? Better warranty than a 15k Colnago...

2199AUD at time of posting.

http://www.cyclingexpress.com/cycle...n/azzurri-forza-rl-carbon-road-bike-2013.aspx

Ive been to bike shops all over the world and used to work in the industry. NEVER seen a deal like this..

 

[User Guide]

Why do they have to give these cheap chinese jobs italian sounding names.Nothing wrong with cheap and chinese,just so tired of all the bs.
LOL @ watt transfer downtube..... and its not High modulous carbon, most bikes arent made of hm carbon;but the bike industry exaggerates a bit as who would ride on an "intermediate modulous" cxarbon frame

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this cheap? Better warranty than a 15k Colnago...

2199AUD at time of posting.

http://www.cyclingexpress.com/cycle...n/azzurri-forza-rl-carbon-road-bike-2013.aspx

Ive been to bike shops all over the world and used to work in the industry. NEVER seen a deal like this..

What's so surprising? Best warranty doesn't mean best product. SRAM makes the cheapest componentry and they wouldn't survive without a great warranty. RED grouppos can be had for about $700 OEM cost, that frame is roughly $300 at OEM. Do you realize Colnago is the only major bike brand never to have a safety recall? Think about that.

 

[simo1733]

What's so surprising? Best warranty doesn't mean best product. SRAM makes the cheapest componentry and they wouldn't survive without a great warranty. RED grouppos can be had for about $700 OEM cost, that frame is roughly $300 at OEM. Do you realize Colnago is the only major bike brand never to have a safety recall? Think about that.

+1 about warranty's.Cannondales have lifetime warranty and they fail all the time, hence Cracknfail.I never heard of a Colnago fail.

 

[simo1733]

You can get a Planet X Carbon with Red for £1000 or how about one of these. http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sed/r...quipped?part=SE12RIBSTEALTHSRAM&sub=conf_SERC.
It is the exact same frame as a De Rosa R838 for around half the price .

 

[durianrider]

You can get a Planet X Carbon with Red for £1000 or how about one of these. http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sed/r...quipped?part=SE12RIBSTEALTHSRAM&sub=conf_SERC.
It is the exact same frame as a De Rosa R838 for around half the price .

That is Sram Apex.

 

[durianrider]

+1 about warranty's.Cannondales have lifetime warranty and they fail all the time, hence Cracknfail.I never heard of a Colnago fail.

I worked at one of the biggest Colnago dealers in Australia. Most people that buy a Colnago don't ride it hard enough to crack it. I did see a couple snap though from guys who were racing.

Ive never seen a CAAD 8/9/10 crack. Lots of 4/5/6/7's cracked at the RD mount where it was CNC'd out. You get ghost shifting on the climbs for a few weeks then it pops.

 

[Tinman]

You can get a Planet X Carbon with Red for £1000 or how about one of these. http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sed/r...quipped?part=SE12RIBSTEALTHSRAM&sub=conf_SERC.
It is the exact same frame as a De Rosa R838 for around half the price .

How high end do you need it to be?

Unless you are a pro (and they don't buy their own frames anyhow), buy the frame direct from China and build it up with a second hand gruppo. Also avoids the PlanetX logo's for what is the same frame. Check Velobuild.com for suppliers. Unbeatable value for money.

Way too much BS in this game.

 

[simo1733]

That is Sram Apex.

£1199 for Red now.Still comparable wth your example.Are you telling me that Colnago's fail more than Cannondales? I recently saw a 2 month old Slice with a crack in the downtube.
I think the Ribble is the best buy .Toray T800 for that price takes some beating.They are made in China by X Pace

 

[laziali]

What's so surprising? Best warranty doesn't mean best product. SRAM makes the cheapest componentry and they wouldn't survive without a great warranty. RED grouppos can be had for about $700 OEM cost, that frame is roughly $300 at OEM. Do you realize Colnago is the only major bike brand never to have a safety recall? Think about that.

+1

When I'm bombing down a descent at 80km/h+ I have complete faith that my Colnago frame ain't going to fail. If I was on a Chinarello or some other no-name Chinese frame, not so much.

Before some noob or know-nothing says "they all come out of the same factory blah blah blah", have a read of this from well respected Cyclingtips.com.au http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2011/08/are-all-carbon-bikes-created-equal/

"... I spoke with a gentleman named Raoul Luescher about this topic to find out his views. If there’s anything you want to know about composite materials, Raoul is the man to ask. He owns Luescherteknik has been involved with composite materials for nearly 20 years. He’s worked with Boeing Aerospace, Defence, the AIS and is the designer of the Malvern Star Oppy.

When I asked Raoul about the difference between brand name and no-name bikes, his first response was “You just don’t know…”

You don’t know the quality system behind it, you don’t know the engineering behind it, you don’t know the materials it was built with, you don’t know anything. It could be good, it could be rubbish. How do you know? From an engineering point of view that’s a concern. Fiber type, strength tolerances, bonding, each tube’s structural design are all considerations.

From Raoul’s point of view coming from an aerospace background, you want to know everything about an airplane before you fly it. Same thing on a bike. If you’re ripping down a descent at 80km/hr, you don’t want the thing to break. You want a good degree of confidence that your bike has been engineered properly and quality tested to comply with standards. There are plenty of people out there who have bought one of these inexpensive no-name bikes and haven’t had any problems with them, but you simply don’t know what process they’ve gone through and there is no way to find it out. ..." (The full article is well worth the read)

 

[Tinman]

Don't disagree. Still leaves many 'high price brand name' China manufacturers in the same boat however. Certainly enough frame/fork failures there also, no different to the Chinarello's.

Would be good to see Q&A as part of bike reviews more, especially comparative tests. And detail on fiber layup, vaccuum bagging, etc, etc. Demystify this part of the game a bit. And get real innovation to shine through, rather than marketing hype.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I worked at one of the biggest Colnago dealers in Australia. Most people that buy a Colnago don't ride it hard enough to crack it. I did see a couple snap though from guys who were racing.

Ive never seen a CAAD 8/9/10 crack. Lots of 4/5/6/7's cracked at the RD mount where it was CNC'd out. You get ghost shifting on the climbs for a few weeks then it pops.

Every brand has failures including Colnago, but they've never had a recall, big difference. I was on a Colnago sponsored team for 6 years and we had one fail that thankfully wasn't during a race. Early version of the Star carbon fork pulled out of the dropouts on a roof rack going down the freeway at 80mph, my teammates Dream HX flipped over and shattered his rear windshield.

But this thread isn't about Colnago, we all know the demographic that gravitates towards that brand, it's been discussed to death here. With all the experience you proclaim to have one would think that you would have learned something about pricing and warranties. Just sayin'.

 

[durianrider]

So your saying 'Colnago owner doesnt need warranty cos they are overweight and hardly ride and just buy bikes based on what juiced up pro rider is winning the world champs on'?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

So your saying 'Colnago owner doesnt need warranty cos they are overweight and hardly ride and just buy bikes based on what juiced up pro rider is winning the world champs on'?

Like a gazillion Trek Madones weren't sold to 220lb accountants and lawyers new to cycling because of hero worship? Trek has a great warranty, and for good reason, volume decreases QC. Colnago has never needed a great warranty because volume has always been low, and QC notoriously high. Where did you work again? You should know all this by now d-rider if you worked at a Colnago dealer.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Trek has a great warranty, and for good reason, volume decreases QC.

Seriously? Tell that to Toyota they have largest volumes and very high quality (yes I know there have been recalls, which car hasnt) Volume in no way dictates lower quality, good manufaturing practises can provide both volume and quality.

 

[avanti]

Seriously? Tell that to Toyota they have largest volumes and very high quality (yes I know there have been recalls, which car hasnt) Volume in no way dictates lower quality, good manufaturing practises can provide both volume and quality.

I agree. I work in QC - high volume can actually result in higher quality in the long run because faulty components are more likely to surface and corrective action taken.

 

[DirtyWorks]

+1

When I'm bombing down a descent at 80km/h+ I have complete faith that my Colnago frame ain't going to fail. If I was on a Chinarello or some other no-name Chinese frame, not so much.

Before some noob or know-nothing says "they all come out of the same factory blah blah blah", have a read of this from well respected Cyclingtips.com.au http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2011/08/are-all-carbon-bikes-created-equal/

I'm neither a noob or know-nothing and the reseller doesn't "know" either. They hope they've chosen well from the few manufacturers turning out whole bikes with CEN certification and that's it. What's Colnago going to do differently at that point that makes it "better" than the other sticker set on the same line?

The expert's view is typical and legitimate Engineer worry. What is being described in the article is the risk inherent in building pretty much anything, only carbon makes detecting some failure conditions less likely.

Tinman is exactly right, waaaaaay too much BS in the bicycle retailing game.

I would argue the best deals are second-hand from people burned by the bike industry when they discover $10000 in gear doesn't make the sport easier.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Seriously? Tell that to Toyota they have largest volumes and very high quality (yes I know there have been recalls, which car hasnt) Volume in no way dictates lower quality, good manufaturing practises can provide both volume and quality.

I agree. I work in QC - high volume can actually result in higher quality in the long run because faulty components are more likely to surface and corrective action taken.

Before you go slapping each other on the back, you can't compare Toyota or any other auto to Trek, a freaking bicycle. I had the unfortunate pleasure of working at two Trek dealers, by far some of the worst QC for a big brand.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

What's Colnago going to do differently at that point that makes it "better" than the other sticker set on the same line?

Almost 60 years in business and never a recall. Ernesto is either really good at choosing frame builders, or he's extremely lucky.

 

[durianrider]

Trek, Giant, Cannondale Specialized, Azzuri etc give lifetime warranty cos they believe in their product.

Colnago don't give lifetime warranty cos they don't believe in their product.

Pretty straight forward to me. The Ernesto fanboyz make some interesting theories though.

 

[elapid]

I worked at one of the biggest Colnago dealers in Australia.

Where did you work again? You should know all this by now d-rider if you worked at a Colnago dealer.

Pretty straight forward to me. The Ernesto fanboyz make some interesting theories though.

DR - What about answering Giuseppe's question?

Your tenuous credibility is taking a serious battering if you cannot answer a simple question from someone who has worked in the industry for decades and can call you on your usual BS any day of the week.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Before you go slapping each other on the back, you can't compare Toyota or any other auto to Trek, a freaking bicycle. I had the unfortunate pleasure of working at two Trek dealers, by far some of the worst QC for a big brand.

Well, then that's the consequence of the deal they struck with the OEM (likely Giant for carbon, Kinesis for alu) for the product. Both Giant and Kinesis do great product at higher prices. Most of you are riding it or Merida.

I think we can all agree that swapping a bad frame out at Trek's margin (not the dealer's margin!) makes driving the OEM to such low costs/quality is a no-brainer at Trek's level.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Almost 60 years in business and never a recall. Ernesto is either really good at choosing frame builders, or he's extremely lucky.

There's no doubt the Colnago brand has a halo around it and they do a great job maintaining it. But it doesn't make them that special. What Colnago is doing is not easy. But, they aren't defying odds at their price points either.

If we are talking about modern carbon, then how many recalls are there out of the same OEM?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Trek, Giant, Cannondale Specialized, Azzuri etc give lifetime warranty cos they believe in their product.

Colnago don't give lifetime warranty cos they don't believe in their product.

Pretty straight forward to me. The Ernesto fanboyz make some interesting theories though.

Bwaaaaah ha-ha Are you having a heroin relapse again?

There's no doubt the Colnago brand has a halo around it and they do a great job maintaining it. But it doesn't make them that special. What Colnago is doing is not easy. But, they aren't defying odds at their price points either.

Sure, if you look at it that way. They're justified in their pricing structure just from a historical standpoint alone, but if I'm not mistaken there are a few frames out there that are close to, or even beyond what a C59 or M10 costs. Actually, word on the street is that the C59 is on it's way out in one or two more seasons.

If we are talking about modern carbon, then how many recalls are there out of the same OEM?

That may be a better question for Giant. Colnago R&D people spend an awful lot of time and resources in Taiwan, more than you'd think from the last hold outs of the true "made in Italy" frames with the C59. If you've noticed there are none, or very minimal Chinese knock-offs of Colnago, not even the M10, the rest of the brands are copied to no end.

 

[Parera]

Giant is probably producing the M10 if past history is any indication.