Better chance of a GT top 10 Gilbert vs Martin

[The Hitch]

Just wondering.

Martin has been mentioned a lot for a Tour top 10. Gilbert less so but still.

I use the word GT because im thinking when both are going for it as Gilbert might just target certain stages at this years Tour.

Personally I think Gilbert. Hes a better climber imo even if he has failed on mountains so far. But his awesomness on the Mur suggests that maybe hes on the way to getting better at the long stuff too.

And yes i do realize i probably misspelt Gilberts name

 

[Lanark]

Tony, better climber, much better time-trialist.

 

[saganftw]

why would gilbert go for top10 GC? i dont think he will ever go for it,but for the sake of argument i think martin has better chance - awesome TT and potentialy good climbing ability - think velits in vuelta style

 

[Ferminal]

Martin will top10 within 3 years.

 

[Parrulo]

why isn't there a "neither has a chance option?" <_<

 

[just some guy]

why isn't there a "neither has a chance option?" <_<

That what I was looking for as well.

Why would they look at GT when they can have great careers doing what they were build to do.

ie Martin ITT and week long races with a good amount of ITT

Gilbert - low land stage races and busting up the classics and one day stage races, stage hunting in the odd GT.

 

[boomcie]

I really can't imagine Martin not doing a top 10 in a GT in his entire career. He clearly has the ambition to do this and with his talent he'll definitely accomplish it one day.

Gilbert seems more reluctant on doing a good GC in a GT.

Edit: I didn't read the: "if both go for it"-part. My bet would still be on Martin, though I'm sure Gilbert could do it as well if he really focused on it..

 

[Bavarianrider]

Gilbert could probably do it if he sacrifised his puncheur qualities.
Tony can d and will do it without any doubt.

 

[jaylew]

Martin will top10 within 3 years.

Agree with this. Martin is the better climber and TTer at this point.

If for some weird reason Gilbert decided to focus on GTs he could possibly turn out to be a better climber but hopefully we won't find out anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

[Swabian Lass]

I think Tony Martin, mainly because he has the ambition to do it and I don't think that Gilbert has. Why would he when he's successful at what he's doing? If Gilbert were to work on his climbing and improve in the mountains then maybe, but who knows? I just can't see him doing that.

Warning - new here, early posts may express a high level of cluelessness.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Ahhhhhh wie schön, another Tony Martin thread.
He is short before becoming the most important bikeracer in this forum.

Of course voted Martin. Easy choice and wonder what happened to the big big expert the Hitch. Is he infected with the anti-Tony virus too now ? ATMEC.

Great that the poll is not anonymous. So it will make some sense.
If it would be anonymous, Gilbert would lead the poll with 300:1. lol

 

[El Pistolero]

I still don't know where the Tony Martin can climb stuff comes from. This guy has never impressed me when things went uphill in the pro ranks.

 

[taiwan]

We've seen Tony Martin go for it before. Don't know what Gilbert could do in the GC, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on the basis that he's a physiological freak.

 

[theyoungest]

I still don't know where the Tony Martin can climb stuff comes from. This guy has never impressed me when things went uphill in the pro ranks.

At least he has featured on the big climbs. Unlike Gilbert.

 

[El Pistolero]

At least he has featured on the big climbs. Unlike Gilbert.

So when will the Hushovd will top 10 thread come then?

Featuring on big climbs from a breakaway is hardly impressive.

 

[taiwan]

At least he has featured on the big climbs. Unlike Gilbert.

Not in the front group, usually. Anyhow, as I say Gilbert hasn't ridden a GC, so he's more of an unknown quantity.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I still don't know where the Tony Martin can climb stuff comes from. This guy has never impressed me when things went uphill in the pro ranks.

Its not really the question whether Tony can climb or not.
Its about how you set the standards and what you demand.

Some guys have really high standards, you know.
Mostly those who are closely emotional connected to Contador.

 

[Cobblestoned]

So when will the Hushovd will top 10 thread come then?

Featuring on big climbs from a breakaway is hardly impressive.

Thor Hushovd ? Aha.
You are close to going full *** AGAIN, Mr. Waterpistolero.

Better you leave the room, and come in again for the next try to make sense.
You hate that door, we know. It has nearly grown to your body.

 

[El Pistolero]

Its not really the question whether Tony can climb or not.
Its about how you set the standards and what you demand.

Some guys have really high standards, you know.
Mostly those who are closely emotional connected to Contador.

I'm sorry but this year alone he got dropped easily on hills/mountains in Pais Vasco, Romandie and the Dauphiné.

Voeckler on the other hand made it to the finals of these hills/climbs a lot in the Dauphiné. And Voeckler is very comparable to Gilbert imo. So if Tony Martin already gets outclimbed by Voeckler... No sorry, no top 10 material imo.

Neither is Gilbert by the way as I hope he keeps focusing on classics.

 

[El Pistolero]

Thor Hushovd ? Aha.
You are close to going full *** AGAIN, Mr. Waterpistolero.

Better you leave the room, and come in again for the next try to make sense.
You hate that door, we know. It has nearly grown to your body.

That was sarcasm. Thor featured in a big climb from a breakaway(like Tony) so he must be top 10 gt material now
In other words(as you can't seem to grasp the concept that is sarcasm) just because Tony featured on a big climb doesn't mean he can climb his way to the top 10.

If you weren't a full *** you'd understand the concept of sarcasm. Thanks for proving everyone otherwise.

 

[Lanark]

I still don't know where the Tony Martin can climb stuff comes from. This guy has never impressed me when things went uphill in the pro ranks.

I don't know what impresses you, but there is no doubt he is an above average climber.

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=11945
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=12913
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=12921
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19837
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19861

A million times better than Hushovd (wtf?) or Gilbert ever showed in a stage race. I don't see what's so damning about the Voeckler comparison, that guy has been climbing really well this season.

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't know what impresses you, but there is no doubt he is an above average climber.

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=11945
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=12913
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=12921
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19837
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19861

A million times better than Hushovd (wtf?) or Gilbert ever showed in a stage race. I don't see what's so damning about the Voeckler comparison, that guy has been climbing really well this season.

That hardly makes him a top 10 climber and no I don't find that impressive for someone who is called a top 10 climber by some. Cancellara won that Tour de Suisse for crying out load where your Crans Montana example comes from. By no means is Cancellara a good climber. Certainly not top 10 material. Neither is Stephen Cummings. And Paris-Nice this year hardly had something worth calling a mountain. Hence he won.

 

[Sparta]

Tony Martin - Purely because it is his aim whereas it is not Gilbert's.
Martin has proved that he can climb but as of yet has not managed to hold it over three weeks. He wasn't trying in the dauphine. I think he could have top 10ed last years Vuelta and has a good chance at the tour - the riders in 9th and 10th are often decent climbers who get in a break - they aren't world beaters so yes he definitely can.

I think however if Gilbert went for it he would have a better shout. Why are top 10 of the hilly classics filled with GT contenders? - because its a similar set of skills. If you are that good in the hilly classics in my opinion it would be very unlikely for you to suck at GTs if you made them your goal. Bettini and Rebellin both have GT top 10s without really trying. I think if Gilbert gave a GT a go I reckon he would come out with a similar performance to someone like Hesjedal in last years tour.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I'm sorry but this year alone he got dropped easily on hills/mountains in Pais Vasco, Romandie and the Dauphiné.

Voeckler on the other hand made it to the finals of these hills/climbs a lot in the Dauphiné. And Voeckler is very comparable to Gilbert imo. So if Tony Martin already gets outclimbed by Voeckler... No sorry, no top 10 material imo.

Neither is Gilbert by the way as I hope he keeps focusing on classics.

Aha, uhum, NOW it all makes sense and everything is clear. Thank you.

Tony can't climb. Great news. Susan, time for a news alert.
"Tony Martin can't actually climb, never did, never will and Cav will have to wait for him, to get a lead out"
We were all fooled for years - CN forum majority and especially Mr. Waterpistol enlighted us. Thank you. Tony, Tony....now I am disappointed.
You can't climb with the best climbers, so you can't climb. Even Voeckler outclimbs you each and every time.

 

[Lanark]

That hardly makes him a top 10 climber and no I don't find that impressive for someone who is called a top 10 climber by some. Cancellara won that Tour de Suisse for crying out load where your Crans Montana example comes from. By no means is Cancellara a good climber. Certainly not top 10 material. Neither is Stephen Cummings. And Paris-Nice this year hardly had something worth calling a mountain. Hence he won.

You can pick a weird or surprising name in every top-10 of a race, that Cummings won that stage doesn't mean it suddenly wasn't a good climbing performance by Martin.

Where does your top-10 climber talk come from? This is about reaching top-10 in the Tour, nobody outside Bavariarider thinks he is one of the 10 best climbers, but you don't need to be a top-10 climber to reach top-10 in the Tour. In the 2009 Tour his climbing legs on Arcalis and Verbier were clearly good enough to eventually reach top-10, he just faded in the last week (not suprising considering how good he was in the Tour de Suisse). If he can improve a little on that, become more stable, a top-10 in the Tour should be easily doable.