Better chance of a GT top 10 Gilbert vs Martin

[El Pistolero]

No one has been fooled as most people don't think Martin is a top 10 candidate for the Tour.

 

[El Pistolero]

You can pick a weird or surprising name in every top-10 of a race, that Cummings won that stage doesn't mean it suddenly wasn't a good climbing performance by Martin.

Where does your top-10 climber talk come from? This is about reaching top-10 in the Tour, nobody outside Bavariarider thinks he is one of the 10 best climbers, but you don't need to be a top-10 climber to reach top-10 in the Tour. In the 2009 Tour his climbing legs on Arcalis and Verbier were clearly good enough to eventually reach top-10, he just faded in the last week (not suprising considering how good he was in the Tour de Suisse). If he can improve a little on that, become more stable, a top-10 in the Tour should be easily doable.

I mean top 10 GC, not top 10 climber. Most GTs have mountains in them and very little time trials these days

I don't find these indications that Tony will be able to get inside the top 10 of the Tour. Hence my Voeckler example. He did good this Dauphiné but no one is calling him a top 10 candidate for the Tour now are they?

 

[jobiwan]

No one has been fooled as most people don't think Martin is a top 10 climber on the Tour.

You are right, he's not a top 10 climber.

He still has a much better chance to Top 10 a GT than Gilbert.

 

[El Pistolero]

You are right, he's not a top 10 climber.

He still has a much better chance to Top 10 a GT than Gilbert.

Yes, because Gilbert isn't going to try for a top 10 and rather wins stages. But we already knew that long time ago.

I'm not saying Phil is going to top 10 the Tour you know

 

[Angliru]

Tony Martin - Purely because it is his aim whereas it is not Gilbert's.
Martin has proved that he can climb but as of yet has not managed to hold it over three weeks. He wasn't trying in the dauphine. I think he could have top 10ed last years Vuelta and has a good chance at the tour - the riders in 9th and 10th are often decent climbers who get in a break - they aren't world beaters so yes he definitely can.

I think however if Gilbert went for it he would have a better shout. Why are top 10 of the hilly classics filled with GT contenders? - because its a similar set of skills. If you are that good in the hilly classics in my opinion it would be very unlikely for you to suck at GTs if you made them your goal. Bettini and Rebellin both have GT top 10s without really trying. I think if Gilbert gave a GT a go I reckon he would come out with a similar performance to someone like Hesjedal in last years tour.

Martin tried to attack and blew up in the process such that when he was shown on tv he was barely able to maintain his forward momentum.

Rebellin and Bettini tried when they got their GT top 10's such that they decided not to try again.

Still my vote is for Martin, as mentioned earlier, it is his goal to get in the top 10. Gilbert has no such ambitions and will likely be taking it easy on the stages that don't suit him.
Martin has to battle to limit his losses in the mountains versus those that are competing for the same or similar goals as him. Unless Gilbert decides to lose weight and sacrifice his performance in the classics that he loves, which I really can't see with the reward likely being an anonymous top 7-15 finish in the gc, he will continue to pursue his goals of winning MSR, RVV and Paris-Roubaix to complete his classic victory collection.

 

[inri2000]

Martin tried to attack and blew up in the process such that when he was shown on tv he was barely able to maintain his forward momentum.

Rebellin and Bettini tried when they got their GT top 10's such that they decided not to try again.

Still my vote is for Martin, as mentioned earlier, it is his goal to get in the top 10. Gilbert has no such ambitions and will likely be taking it easy on the stages that don't suit him.
Martin has to battle to limit his losses in the mountains versus those that are competing for the same or similar goals as him. Unless Gilbert decides to lose weight and sacrifice his performance in the classics that he loves, which I really can't see with the reward likely being an anonymous top 7-15 finish in the gc, he will continue to pursue his goals of winning MSR, RVV and Paris-Roubaix to complete his classic victory collection.

Merckx input: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...over-Van-den-Broeck-for-good-Tour-finish.aspx

 

[Angliru]

Merckx input: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...over-Van-den-Broeck-for-good-Tour-finish.aspx

No fair pulling the Merckx perspective card on me!

 

[The Hitch]

Great that the poll is not anonymous. So it will make some sense.
If it would be anonymous, Gilbert would lead the poll with 300:1. lol

You calling everyone that voted for Martin liars who are voting for Martin just to look cool?

 

[dabaideschbi]

i hope that gilbert won't decide to become a gt contender! he should try continuing winning the classics! i am sure he can win all classics from sanremo to flanders, maybe also roubaix with a specific preparation! honestly if he decides to become a gt contender i don't see any chance of winning a tour or a giro! is better for him trying to win some stages and classic than ending a gt in the 10th position in my opinion! tony martin is a good rider but i think he won't be able to win a tour , he can still win races like paris-nice, tour de suisse, dauphinè or tirreno!

 

[Anonymous]

i hope that gilbert won't decide to become a gt contender! he should try continuing winning the classics! i am sure he can win all classics from sanremo to flanders, maybe also roubaix with a specific preparation! honestly if he decides to become a gt contender i don't see any chance of winning a tour or a giro! is better for him trying to win some stages and classic than ending a gt in the 10th position in my opinion! tony martin is a good rider but i think he won't be able to win a tour , he can still win races like paris-nice, tour de suisse, dauphinè or tirreno!

i think we are talking about a top 10 in a GT, not winning the damn thing.

 

[luckyboy]

Neither will, but Martin is much better at TTing, and stronger in the high mountains.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Martin is more likely to go for a top ten (and get it) than Gilbert is. Simply because Gilbert has no need to. When you dominate every classic you want to dominate, why would you focus on a top 10 in something like the Giro, Tour or Vuelta?

In fact, if they both went for it (including preparation of course), which again will never happen because there is no need to for Gibert, i would quite easily put my money on Gilbert for getting the better result. If -against all odds- he would ever be insane enough to drop the classics and go for the Vuelta, i can very easily see him do top 10 or even quite a bit better. He already finished 32nd in his first Giro. I don't see why it would be beyond his capabilities.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Martin not getting a top 10 in his career, despite not being a great climber, imo would be shocking. We've seen he can at least limit his loses in some mountains, and he has a massive weapon with his TTT.
He will never win a GT, especially with a mountainious course.

I also don't buy into the Gilbert could do a good GT. Probably could make top 10 also, but he would be an average GC guy, he knows what type of rider he is.
Fleche isn't an indication for big mountains.

 

[seaby71]

there is no way martin will top ten based on last years tdf where he faded badly in the last weeks

 

[robertocarlos]

there is no way martin will top ten based on last years tdf where he faded badly in the last weeks

i used to be optimistic about martin, eventhogh i am not so uch of a fan anymore gilbert plain sucks on tt and i do not think his tempo climbing is better than tony's. gilbert does have a chance at course similar to las year vuelta with shorter hills at the beggining and time bonuses. i do not think he has the mental ability to do a top ten on a gt like this years giro or the tour the france where half of the flat stages get taken by sprinter teams. plus tony already know how it feels to be enroute of a top ten he just need how to hold it together.

 

[AlejandroValverde]

Gilbert is riding TdF only for stages and maybe yellow jersey for a few days. Martin is talking about his TOP10 in TdF and we could have seen him nicely riding on one of the last mountain stages on Dauphine.
He is much better in mountains than Belgian, his advantage is of course TT. He can be a surprise like Wiggins in '09 and although i don't especially like him i'd like to see him with best cyclists.
What is also important, Van Garderen and P.Velits(?) are also preparing for le tour and their chances are now much higher than German's.

And interesting is whether Gilbert will abandon before mountains or he could possibly go for green yersey.

 

[WorldsGreatest]

Gilbert will go for Green. He will have a big lead in Green after week 1.

 

[taiwan]

Gilbert will go for Green. He will have a big lead in Green after week 1.

that's greipel's tour shafted then