Biggest stage race outside of the Grand Tours.

[Ryo Hazuki]

Newsflash: Ryo is not saying the Vuelta a Colombia is better than a European stage race.

not better riders, but because of the hardness of the course it's much harder to win. only really strong climbers can win while in paris nice, many more riders can win. not any of those guys mentioned in that top ten could win the vuelta colombia.

 

[TeoSheva]

not better riders, but because of the hardness of the course it's much harder to win. only really strong climbers can win while in paris nice, many more riders can win. not any of those guys mentioned in that top ten could win the vuelta colombia.

1. MARTIN Tony THR 34:03:37
2. KLÖDEN Andreas RSH 00:00:36
3. WIGGINS Bradley SKY 00:00:41
4. TAARAMAE Rein COF 00:01:10
5. SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel EUS 00:01:13
6. PERAUD Jean Christophe ALM 00:01:24
7. BRAJKOVIC Janez RSH 00:01:34
8. LEIPHEIMER Levi RSH 00:01:36
9. MOLLEMA Bauke RAB 00:02:04
10. MONFORT Maxime

this is the top10 of P-N

do you think tath a S.Sanchez in good shape can't win the vuelta colombia? and neither TGBM?

 

[The Hitch]

You mean that

1. RODAS RAMIREZ Julian Andres 08:07:46
2. SEVILLA RIBERA Oscar 00:00:02
3. GUTIERREZ CATALUNA José Enrique 00:00:11
4. ALVAREZ Oscar 00:00:18
5. HENAO MONTOYA Sergio 00:00:26
6. RAMIREZ CALDERON Alejandro 00:00:27
7. CARDENAS RAVALO Félix Rafael 00:01:10
8. PEREZ ARANGO Marlon Alirio 00:01:13
9. PARRA BUSTAMENTE Edwin Arnulfo 00:01:14
10. OBANDO BRENES Gregory

is better than

1. EVANS Cadel BMC 27:37:37
2. GESINK Robert RAB 00:00:11
3. SCARPONI Michele LAM 00:00:15
4. BASSO Ivan LIQ 00:00:24
5. NIBALI Vincenzo LIQ 00:00:30
6. PINOTTI Marco THR 00:00:39
7. MACHADO Tiago RSH 00:00:42
8. CUNEGO Damiano LAM 00:00:50
9. GILBERT Philippe OLO 00:00:57
10. LÖVKVIST Thomas SKY 00:00:58

??

What about this

1. Sergio Luis Henao (COL) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 53:48.21
2. Óscar Sevilla (ESP) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin + 1.49
3. José Rujano (VEN) Lotería de Boyacá + 3.02
4. Francisco Colorado (COL) UNE-EPM + 4.52
5. Juan Pablo Suarez (COL) UNE-EPM + 5.17
6. Darwin Atapuma (COL) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 + 6.12
7. Freddy Montaña (COL) Boyacá Orgullo de America + 7.45
8. Alex Caño (COL) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 + 10.39
9. Javier Gonzalez (COL) UNE-EPM + 12.18
10. Diego Calderon (COL)

vs this

Rider Team Time
1 Thomas De Gendt (BEL) Vacansoleil-DCM 4h 04' 53"
2 Jérémy Roy (FRA) FDJ + 6"
3 Heinrich Haussler (AUS) Garmin-Cervélo + 9"
4 Damien Gaudin (FRA) Europcar + 10"
5 Jens Voigt (GER) Leopard Trek + 11"
6 Romain Feillu (FRA) Vacansoleil-DCM + 12"
7 Peter Sagan (SVK) Liquigas-Cannondale + 13"
8 Greg Henderson (NZL) Team Sky + 13"
9 Wouter Weylandt (BEL) Leopard Trek + 13"
10 Danilo Wyss (SUI)

 

[Michielveedeebee]

What about this

1. Sergio Luis Henao (COL) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 53:48.21
2. Óscar Sevilla (ESP) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin + 1.49
3. José Rujano (VEN) Lotería de Boyacá + 3.02
4. Francisco Colorado (COL) UNE-EPM + 4.52
5. Juan Pablo Suarez (COL) UNE-EPM + 5.17
6. Darwin Atapuma (COL) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 + 6.12
7. Freddy Montaña (COL) Boyacá Orgullo de America + 7.45
8. Alex Caño (COL) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 + 10.39
9. Javier Gonzalez (COL) UNE-EPM + 12.18
10. Diego Calderon (COL)

vs this

Rider Team Time
1 Thomas De Gendt (BEL) Vacansoleil-DCM 4h 04' 53"
2 Jérémy Roy (FRA) FDJ + 6"
3 Heinrich Haussler (AUS) Garmin-Cervélo + 9"
4 Damien Gaudin (FRA) Europcar + 10"
5 Jens Voigt (GER) Leopard Trek + 11"
6 Romain Feillu (FRA) Vacansoleil-DCM + 12"
7 Peter Sagan (SVK) Liquigas-Cannondale + 13"
8 Greg Henderson (NZL) Team Sky + 13"
9 Wouter Weylandt (BEL) Leopard Trek + 13"
10 Danilo Wyss (SUI)

Wait what?

you being sarcastic Hitch?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

1. MARTIN Tony THR 34:03:37
2. KLÖDEN Andreas RSH 00:00:36
3. WIGGINS Bradley SKY 00:00:41
4. TAARAMAE Rein COF 00:01:10
5. SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel EUS 00:01:13
6. PERAUD Jean Christophe ALM 00:01:24
7. BRAJKOVIC Janez RSH 00:01:34
8. LEIPHEIMER Levi RSH 00:01:36
9. MOLLEMA Bauke RAB 00:02:04
10. MONFORT Maxime

this is the top10 of P-N

do you think tath a S.Sanchez in good shape can't win the vuelta colombia? and neither TGBM?

no, s sanchez could maybe get close but I say 25% chance if he prepared all for it. man in the past the greatest european cyclists have tried clasico rcn, none of them won so let alone the vuelta colombia which is way harder than rcn. mollema not even a top ten

 

[The Hitch]

do you think tath a S.Sanchez in good shape can't win the vuelta colombia? and neither TGBM?

Samu obviously would win it but lets not push things too far by saying Mollema would.

Rujano came 3rd in last years Vuelta and this is the guy who matched Contador on Etna and Grossglockner.

Even if european guys would own the 5-10 places and even if the guys like Contador, Schleck Sanchez would own the Vuelta Colombia, that top 3 has quality in it.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

vuelta colombia you need to be extraordinary climber, these live in colombia. it's nothing weird. pls look back at the 80s vuelta's towards the late 80s vuelta's got harder and more colombian teams entered, sometimes 30 colombian riders participated of whom 15 were in the top 20. that's saying a lot. there are no better climbers than colombians save the rare supertalent like contador perhaps.

keep in mind what in europe is seen as climbs in colombia is laughed at. you think someone like tony martin could do a top 15 vuelta colombia?? he'd be lucky to finish teh race, just showing you

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Samu obviously would win it but lets not push things too far by saying Mollema would.

Rujano came 3rd in last years Vuelta and this is the guy who matched Contador on Etna and Grossglockner.

Even if european guys would own the 5-10 places and even if the guys like Contador, Schleck Sanchez would own the Vuelta Colombia, that top 10 has quality in it.

1 Sergio Luis Henao (Col) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 53:48:21
2 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 0:01:49
3 Jose Rujano (Ven) Loteria de Boyaca 0:03:02
4 Francisco Colorado (Col) EPM-UNE 0:04:52
5 Juan Pablo Suarez (Col) EPM-UNE 0:05:17
6 Darwin Atapuma (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:06:12
7 Freddy Montaña (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 0:07:45
8 Alex Cano (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:10:39
9 Javier Gonzalez (Col) EPM-UNE 0:12:18
10 Diego Calderon (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 0:14:51
11 Ivan Parra (Col) GW Shimano-Chec-Edec-Envia 0:15:01
12 Jair Perez (Col) Empresa de Energia de Boyaca Ebsa 0:20:55
13 Dalivier Ospina (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:26:56
14 Jannier Acevedo (Col) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 0:33:50
15 Rodolfo Torres (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 0:37:07
16 Libardo Niño (Col) Empresa de Energia de Boyaca Ebsa 0:38:37
17 Luis Felipe Laverde (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:39:07
18 John Martinez (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:40:58
19 Jonathan Camargo (Ven) Loteria de Boyaca 0:41:30
20 Alvaro Gomez (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 0:43:11
21 Stiber Ortiz (Col) EPM-UNE 0:47:55
22 Fernando Camargo (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 0:48:19
23 Fabio Duarte (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:52:25
24 Elder Herrera (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 0:53:48
25 Victor Niño (Col) Empresa de Energia de Boyaca Ebsa 0:54:17
26 Oscar Solis (Bol) Empresa de Energia de Boyaca Ebsa 1:02:01
27 Mauricio Ortega (Col) EPM-UNE 1:05:59
28 Edson Calderon (Col) Fuerzas Armadas-Ejercito Nacional 1:11:38
29 Edwin Parra (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 1:13:08
30 Rafael Montiel (Col) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 1:15:51
31 Jose Alarcon (Ven) Loteria de Boyaca 1:27:00
32 Manuel Medina (Ven) Loteria de Boyaca 1:30:08
33 Jorge Duarte (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 1:32:17
34 Alejandro Ramirez (Col) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 1:36:34
35 Hernan Buenahora (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 1:38:59
36 Israel Ochoa (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 1:43:51
37 Fabio Montenegro (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 1:51:57
38 Freddy Gonzalez (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 1:54:50
39 Jorge Martinez (Col) EPM-UNE 1:58:28
40 Diego Quintero (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 2:00:07
41 Alejandro Serna (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 2:06:56
42 Jaime Castañeda (Col) EPM-UNE 2:10:21
43 Remberto Jaramillo (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 2:16:56
44 Fredy Piamonte (Col) EPM-UNE 2:17:54
45 Mauricio Neisa (Col) Loteria de Boyaca 2:18:18
46 Edgar Fonseca (Col) Loteria de Boyaca 2:19:36
47 Victor Hugo Peña (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 2:23:15
48 Graciano Fonseca (Col) Loteria de Boyaca 2:28:33
49 Robinson Chalapud (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 2:35:17
50 Gregorio Ladino (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 2:36:40

nothing but quality there, wether you know the riders or not, look them up if you like, a guy like freddy gonzalez is 2 time king of the mountains in giro, and also bear in mind if henao hadn't soft pedaled everywhere he could sevilla would not have made the top 8/10. he's about 15th best climber in colombia as was shown again yesterday on la linea. in europe sevilla was among top 5/10 best climbers no doubt and he was doped yes but so where his opponents then. also sevilla was really young in europe, he;'s much stronger now and more matured at age 34.

 

[The Hitch]

keep in mind what in europe is seen as climbs in colombia is laughed at.

You say that but the profiles you have shown dont match the hype you give to the Colombian mountains.

The climb you showed in the Rujano thread which was the hardest one from 2009, was about as hard as Alpe d huez. I have seen nothing to rival Crostis Zoncolan Finnestre, Angiliru.

That 80 km at 4% beast was awesome but has it been used?

Show me these climbs of 15km at 12% and 9km at 18% and 20km at 10%, that would justify this hype.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

it means in europe 1800 metres is h.c in colombia they go over 3000 metres, that's the huge difference, de linea is comparable to ventoux except it goes to 3300 metres instead of 2100 metres, that difference is so huge, europeans can't adapt to that, sevilla has been leaving in colombia for 4 years and still can't.

it's also why I see prospects in cyclists from bolivia like oscar soliz. because there they climb to 4500 metres with no trouble

 

[El Pistolero]

1 Sergio Luis Henao (Col) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 53:48:21
2 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 0:01:49
3 Jose Rujano (Ven) Loteria de Boyaca 0:03:02
4 Francisco Colorado (Col) EPM-UNE 0:04:52
5 Juan Pablo Suarez (Col) EPM-UNE 0:05:17
6 Darwin Atapuma (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:06:12
7 Freddy Montaña (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 0:07:45
8 Alex Cano (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:10:39
9 Javier Gonzalez (Col) EPM-UNE 0:12:18
10 Diego Calderon (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 0:14:51
11 Ivan Parra (Col) GW Shimano-Chec-Edec-Envia 0:15:01
12 Jair Perez (Col) Empresa de Energia de Boyaca Ebsa 0:20:55
13 Dalivier Ospina (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:26:56
14 Jannier Acevedo (Col) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 0:33:50
15 Rodolfo Torres (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 0:37:07
16 Libardo Niño (Col) Empresa de Energia de Boyaca Ebsa 0:38:37
17 Luis Felipe Laverde (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:39:07
18 John Martinez (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:40:58
19 Jonathan Camargo (Ven) Loteria de Boyaca 0:41:30
20 Alvaro Gomez (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 0:43:11
21 Stiber Ortiz (Col) EPM-UNE 0:47:55
22 Fernando Camargo (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 0:48:19
23 Fabio Duarte (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 0:52:25
24 Elder Herrera (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 0:53:48
25 Victor Niño (Col) Empresa de Energia de Boyaca Ebsa 0:54:17
26 Oscar Solis (Bol) Empresa de Energia de Boyaca Ebsa 1:02:01
27 Mauricio Ortega (Col) EPM-UNE 1:05:59
28 Edson Calderon (Col) Fuerzas Armadas-Ejercito Nacional 1:11:38
29 Edwin Parra (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 1:13:08
30 Rafael Montiel (Col) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 1:15:51
31 Jose Alarcon (Ven) Loteria de Boyaca 1:27:00
32 Manuel Medina (Ven) Loteria de Boyaca 1:30:08
33 Jorge Duarte (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 1:32:17
34 Alejandro Ramirez (Col) Ind Ant-Idea-Fla-Lot De Medellin 1:36:34
35 Hernan Buenahora (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 1:38:59
36 Israel Ochoa (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 1:43:51
37 Fabio Montenegro (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 1:51:57
38 Freddy Gonzalez (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 1:54:50
39 Jorge Martinez (Col) EPM-UNE 1:58:28
40 Diego Quintero (Col) Nectar de Cundi/Marca-Coldeportes-Pintu Bler 2:00:07
41 Alejandro Serna (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 2:06:56
42 Jaime Castañeda (Col) EPM-UNE 2:10:21
43 Remberto Jaramillo (Col) Formesan-Panachi-Inder Santander 2:16:56
44 Fredy Piamonte (Col) EPM-UNE 2:17:54
45 Mauricio Neisa (Col) Loteria de Boyaca 2:18:18
46 Edgar Fonseca (Col) Loteria de Boyaca 2:19:36
47 Victor Hugo Peña (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 2:23:15
48 Graciano Fonseca (Col) Loteria de Boyaca 2:28:33
49 Robinson Chalapud (Col) Col es Pasion Café De Colombia 472 2:35:17
50 Gregorio Ladino (Col) Boyaca Orgullo de America 2:36:40

nothing but quality there, wether you know the riders or not, look them up if you like, a guy like freddy gonzalez is 2 time king of the mountains in giro, and also bear in mind if henao hadn't soft pedaled everywhere he could sevilla would not have made the top 8/10. he's about 15th best climber in colombia as was shown again yesterday on la linea. in europe sevilla was among top 5/10 best climbers no doubt and he was doped yes but so where his opponents then. also sevilla was really young in europe, he;'s much stronger now and more matured at age 34.

Yeah, 8 years ago against an incredibly weak Giro field in the early 2000s. Sevilla is old, he's not even in the top 10 climbers anymore in Europe and would get blasted in the Tour.

 

[Oreknan]

and who cares who climbs better in those conditions? who cares if cancellara its the best climber in the moon? the important races are for the moment in europe

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yeah, 8 years ago against an incredibly weak Giro field in the early 2000s. Sevilla is old, he's not even in the top 10 climbers anymore in Europe and would get blasted in the Tour.

how would you know?? and sevilla is 34, that';s hardly old, just look at kloden, horner, basso etc.

 

[spalco]

Paris-Nice because it's the first big one imo.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

the only reason I can see VaC being hard for a european winning is the altitude levels. I assume they are pretty high in a lot of climbs there.

Not because of the competition. I'm sure if samu trained he'd have a better chance then 25%

 

[AntonioRossi]

Sorry guys..but the debate is over. The master of cycling knowledge has spoken...Phil Liggett in today's broadcast surprisingly said that Tour de Suisse was the biggest race after the Giro, Tour, and Vuelta

 

[BeachBum]

I voted TdS, but could've gone with the Dauphine. Paris-Nice is big, and yes, more riders make it a specific goal, but it's so early in hte season, a lot of riders really haven't started getting going yet. I also like how the Tour GT contenders use the TdS/Dauphine to judge how they're going/play psych games with the opposition.

 

[El Pistolero]

Sorry guys..but the debate is over. The master of cycling knowledge has spoken...Phil Liggett in today's broadcast surprisingly said that Tour de Suisse was the biggest race after the Giro, Tour, and Vuelta

That's actually not as stupid as one could expect from him. It used to be biggest, but now it's definitely Paris-Nice in the peloton I think. Sadly Tony Martin had to bribe the ASO in order to win...