Bio passport compromised by micro-dosing

May 19, 2010
1,899
0
0
French documentary on micro-dosing to be aired on Sunday 3 May on France 2.
For twenty-nine consecutive days, eight athletes agreed to take performance-enhancing drugs in micro doses under the supervision and strict control of a laboratory and a medical team.

On the program: self-transfusion, EPO intake, growth hormones and drug supplements. After these 4 weeks of experience, the eight "guinea pigs" show amazing progress in terms of performance, while having a biological passport remained officially "clean" vis-à-vis the controls despite the micro-doses administered. The effectiveness of bilogique passport, currently central tool in the fight against doping is therefore greatly compromised. (Google translate)
http://www.leblogtvnews.com/2015/05/reportage-dans-stade-2-se-doper-pour-lutter-contre-le-dopage.html
 
Mar 27, 2015
444
0
0
yeah, doping will always be a step ahead

but at least they limit the freak shows of 60% and dieing in sleep, stuff like that
 
May 26, 2010
28,144
2
0
blood testing of riders was down in last few years, so it makes the BP a joke. Some riders were tested 10 months apart!

edit, no kind of makes it a joke, it is a joke, especially when Oli Cookson gets to check it :rolleyes:
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
i'd bet some good money that every single procyclist who has publicly come out in defense of the passport is in fact a doper, and every DS who's claimed the BP allows clean riders to win GTs an enabler.

btw, it was always going to be either the French or the Germans doing such a documentary.
 
Re:

Freddythefrog said:
Great link. As ever, Froome trashes Lance and Pantani's times up the Ventoux and still has time to call Sir Dave to ask if he can buy off Quintana, is way better evidence than ever "my bio-passport/(insert latest anti-drug test) is clean".
:D

He also climbed it slower than Kreuziger and Moncoutie.
 
Re:

Freddythefrog said:
Great link. As ever, Froome trashes Lance and Pantani's times up the Ventoux and still has time to call Sir Dave to ask if he can buy off Quintana, is way better evidence than ever "my bio-passport/(insert latest anti-drug test) is clean".
To be fair he was nowhere near pantanis time, though thats not saying much when you beat pretty much every other dopers attempt at it.
 
Re:

sniper said:
i'd bet some good money that every single procyclist who has publicly come out in defense of the passport is in fact a doper, and every DS who's claimed the BP allows clean riders to win GTs an enabler.

btw, it was always going to be either the French or the Germans doing such a documentary.
Why the Germans?
 
While in the 90s it seems the way to dope was to use as much as possible, get the percentage through the roof and learn to fly.
Now it has been limited in some ways and maybe the boost is not as much, but it is also much more clever.
In the 90s the stupid could get away with it because there was no way of getting caught, these days the stupid get caught, the rest sail through the tests and still learn to fly.
 
Re:

TheGreenMonkey said:
While in the 90s it seems the way to dope was to use as much as possible, get the percentage through the roof and learn to fly.
Now it has been limited in some ways and maybe the boost is not as much, but it is also much more clever.
In the 90s the stupid could get away with it because there was no way of getting caught, these days the stupid get caught, the rest sail through the tests and still learn to fly.
This assumes the sports federation is getting non-positives from dopers. CIRC report makes it clear they just ignored tesfor, favored riders.
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,856
0
0
neineinei said:
French documentary on micro-dosing to be aired on Sunday 3 May on France 2.
For twenty-nine consecutive days, eight athletes agreed to take performance-enhancing drugs in micro doses under the supervision and strict control of a laboratory and a medical team.

On the program: self-transfusion, EPO intake, growth hormones and drug supplements. After these 4 weeks of experience, the eight "guinea pigs" show amazing progress in terms of performance, while having a biological passport remained officially "clean" vis-à-vis the controls despite the micro-doses administered. The effectiveness of bilogique passport, currently central tool in the fight against doping is therefore greatly compromised. (Google translate)
http://www.leblogtvnews.com/2015/05/reportage-dans-stade-2-se-doper-pour-lutter-contre-le-dopage.html
Ashenden has done this a couple of years back, under clinical conditions. tho they may not have been athletes as his subjects, and followed their performance.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
sniper said:
i'd bet some good money that every single procyclist who has publicly come out in defense of the passport is in fact a doper, and every DS who's claimed the BP allows clean riders to win GTs an enabler.

btw, it was always going to be either the French or the Germans doing such a documentary.
Why the Germans?
meant to say: this just wasn't going to be a british production now was it.
and some of the best docus on doping are german (cf. 'Blutdoping' from I think 2007, dealing with a.o. Lance and Puerto, and of course Seppelt's stuff).
 
Jul 11, 2013
3,340
0
0
I newer had much faith in the ABP..

-The riders have access to their data and can dope accordingly
(It's a dopers tool, not a testers as per CIRC revelations...)
-Many tests don't even use the Software, they test for positives but don't put the data into the passport info..
-There's apparently still problems with the steroidal module.
-Some have said ABP testing had been 10 months in between (how are you going to use data to anything)
.Training at altitude and use of altitude tents provides that test data can't be used for ABP purposes so goes in the bin
-Riders and much of the cycling environment, including UCI use the ABP to explain why doping is a thing of the past (the tests work discourse are usually a sign of the opposite)
-Very few cyclists have been busted by this expensive tool and it takes up to years resolving cases see: Kreuziger

(some) riders may have taken a chill-pill when the passport was introduced but in time as always they adjust and dope clever...

The worst thing is so many praising it as some sort of game-changer towards clean cycling..

It is no such thing. Just a contribution to doping evolution...
 
Re:

mrhender said:
The worst thing is so many praising it as some sort of game-changer towards clean cycling..

It is no such thing. Just a contribution to doping evolution...
Exactly, and with the culture in cycling that is all any measure is ever going to be. Doping is so ingrained in cycling that there never will be a new clean generation, there never will be clean winners of major races. There will always be that bit older rider who dopes who the younger riders have to match to get a contract, to get a minor victory, to make the TDF team, to win a GT, to win a monument. To achieve anything in the sport without illegal assistance is either impossible or extremely close to impossible.
 
May 26, 2010
28,144
2
0
Re:

mrhender said:
I newer had much faith in the ABP..

-The riders have access to their data and can dope accordingly
(It's a dopers tool, not a testers as per CIRC revelations...)
-Many tests don't even use the Software, they test for positives but don't put the data into the passport info..
-There's apparently still problems with the steroidal module.
-Some have said ABP testing had been 10 months in between (how are you going to use data to anything)
.Training at altitude and use of altitude tents provides that test data can't be used for ABP purposes so goes in the bin
-Riders and much of the cycling environment, including UCI use the ABP to explain why doping is a thing of the past (the tests work discourse are usually a sign of the opposite)
-Very few cyclists have been busted by this expensive tool and it takes up to years resolving cases see: Kreuziger

(some) riders may have taken a chill-pill when the passport was introduced but in time as always they adjust and dope clever...

The worst thing is so many praising it as some sort of game-changer towards clean cycling..

It is no such thing. Just a contribution to doping evolution...
Also that other sports want to 'introduce' similar, tennis, which has a massive doping culture shows how little it works. Tennis is the last sport that cares about doping. It gives federations more control over athletes. No athlete wants a BP anomaly hanging over them for years, it affects income.

I think cycling is back to a position where teams have found a new PED and learnt how to maximise its potential along with the usual PED cabinet and UCI is as per usual way behind in caring never mind testing.

To clean up sport needs a Tsunami of change. We have not seen it, never mind what the likes of JV tells us.

JVs 'cool kids don't dope' schtick was laughable when he said it, the idea that 'new generation' looked up at the older generation and said whatever you did we wont do.....that shite might be true for music but not for sport.

Especially when 'new generation' all defended Armstrong when asked about his, at the time, alleged doping!
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
Re:

mrhender said:
I newer had much faith in the ABP..

-The riders have access to their data and can dope accordingly
(It's a dopers tool, not a testers as per CIRC revelations...)
-Many tests don't even use the Software, they test for positives but don't put the data into the passport info..
-There's apparently still problems with the steroidal module.
-Some have said ABP testing had been 10 months in between (how are you going to use data to anything)
.Training at altitude and use of altitude tents provides that test data can't be used for ABP purposes so goes in the bin
-Riders and much of the cycling environment, including UCI use the ABP to explain why doping is a thing of the past (the tests work discourse are usually a sign of the opposite)
-Very few cyclists have been busted by this expensive tool and it takes up to years resolving cases see: Kreuziger

(some) riders may have taken a chill-pill when the passport was introduced but in time as always they adjust and dope clever...

The worst thing is so many praising it as some sort of game-changer towards clean cycling..

It is no such thing. Just a contribution to doping evolution...
excellent concise summary.
 
Jul 11, 2013
3,340
0
0
And i forgot the obvious part...

Once you dope you need to keep on doping regularly to avoid significant "swings" in blood values..

How is that for a deterrent?

In effect the passport may even make doping more frequent, so microdosing in the evening makes perfect sense...

No wonder most riders think night time testing is a bad idea... The privacy (evening doping-exercice) must not be compromized...
 
Re:

mrhender said:
And i forgot the obvious part...

Once you dope you need to keep on doping regularly to avoid significant "swings" in blood values..

How is that for a deterrent?

In effect the passport may even make doping more frequent, so microdosing in the evening makes perfect sense...

No wonder most riders think night time testing is a bad idea... The privacy (evening doping-exercice) must not be compromized...
and here is why we are seeing these ridiculous 8 and 9 month peaks
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
The Hitch said:
sniper said:
i'd bet some good money that every single procyclist who has publicly come out in defense of the passport is in fact a doper, and every DS who's claimed the BP allows clean riders to win GTs an enabler.

btw, it was always going to be either the French or the Germans doing such a documentary.
Why the Germans?
meant to say: this just wasn't going to be a british production now was it.
and some of the best docus on doping are german (cf. 'Blutdoping' from I think 2007, dealing with a.o. Lance and Puerto, and of course Seppelt's stuff).
The german companies are the worst. I find their pick on cycling but defend football because we win at it to be disgusting. Real rob from the poor to give to the rich bullying. Tfu.
 
Apr 7, 2015
656
0
0
Re:

mrhender said:
Once you dope you need to keep on doping regularly to avoid significant "swings" in blood values..
Which probably means that it is both more expensive and (at least) more logistically challenging than before. No more opportunistic upstarts, which is probably how the bigger teams in the peloton wants it.
 
Jul 11, 2013
3,340
0
0
Re: Re:

Lyon said:
Which probably means that it is both more expensive and (at least) more logistically challenging than before. No more opportunistic upstarts, which is probably how the bigger teams in the peloton wants it.
Good point...

Also might be one of the reasons why the UCI thinks the ABP is a wonderful tool...

The more professionalized and leveled (level as in top rider performance curve) the doping practices are the more belivable the show is insofar that performances follow a more even curve and you don't get controversial positives to "handle" all the time..
+ you avoid too many one hit wonder perfomances that intrudes the imaginary clean(er) era narrative....
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
The german companies are the worst. I find their pick on cycling but defend football because we win at it to be disgusting. Real rob from the poor to give to the rich bullying. Tfu.
Germans are doing pretty good at cycling too right now. I think they pick on cycling because the entire point of sport is to marvel at the capacity of the human body, in the case of cycling that means endurance/toughness (boosted by EPO) and in the case of football means ball handling/coordination/teamwork (not as directly affected by doping).

So the real question is how do Germans feel about running or swimming or powerlifting?
 
Re: Re:

proffate said:
The Hitch said:
The german companies are the worst. I find their pick on cycling but defend football because we win at it to be disgusting. Real rob from the poor to give to the rich bullying. Tfu.
Germans are doing pretty good at cycling too right now. I think they pick on cycling because the entire point of sport is to marvel at the capacity of the human body, in the case of cycling that means endurance/toughness (boosted by EPO) and in the case of football means ball handling/coordination/teamwork (not as directly affected by doping).

So the real question is how do Germans feel about running or swimming or powerlifting?
Well its not the Germans per se, since there are no doubt plenty of intelligent folks in the country, just like there are plenty of Brits who aren't braindead stupid.
Its the press.

But anyway, the reason the German press hypocritically picks on cycling and other "pure physical" sports is obviously financial. Football pays the bills. The 20 highest watched programmes in the history of German tv were all matches of the National Football team.

Cycling doesn't bring in that money.

Same reason Spain covered up for all their footballers and their main tennis player.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
yeah, very fair points re: germany picking on cycling.
hence my point, this documentary was always going to be either french or german.
otoh, seppelt's recent docu, broadcasted and sponsored by the ARD, exposed T&F, i.e. sports which also offer great revenues to, for instance, the ARD (though of course not comparable to soccer).
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,856
0
0
less miles in offseason, = less plasma. ceterus paribus the 'crit should be raised by a few points. ask JV, his last test he tweeted where he had to get the MD assessment, they had his pegged at 52 or 53.

some skeptical souls on this board may not axiomatically trust JV, those Clinic12 mob are a cynical lot innit
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS