bonification seconds in Giro d'Italia

May 1, 2016
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Does anybody know how many bonification seconds riders can earn in a Giro d'Italia stage? (I want try to calculate how many stages the winner of the prologue will ride in pink.)
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Re: Re:

Eshnar said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Eshnar said:
bonuses should be 10", 6" and 4"
However, time trials give nothing, so the winner of the prologue won't get any.
It has always struck me as unfair.
Well, there are many unfair things in GC classifications. Bonus seconds, same time, 3 km rule...
"Many things are unfair" is no good reason to perpetuate a specific case of unfairness that can easily be addressed.
 
Apr 7, 2016
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Hugo Koblet said:
It's time for fantasy games, I see ;)
Ah, ok. I'd imagined the following conversation...

"I'd like to place a bet on Trek-Segafredo's Fabian Cancellara to wear the maglia rosa up to and including Stage 4 of the Giro d'Italia, please."

"U wot m8."
 
Re: Re:

CheckMyPecs said:
Eshnar said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Eshnar said:
bonuses should be 10", 6" and 4"
However, time trials give nothing, so the winner of the prologue won't get any.
It has always struck me as unfair.
Well, there are many unfair things in GC classifications. Bonus seconds, same time, 3 km rule...
"Many things are unfair" is no good reason to perpetuate a specific case of unfairness that can easily be addressed.
As a matter of fact, all of them can be addressed.
Time bonuses have been created to give the gc guys a reason to contest stage wins. There's no necessity to put them in ITTs, as they will give it their all anyway. Since there is no necessity and the idea to alter the time result of a time trial sounds weird to most, they haven't been put in TTs. Unfair, I agree, but it has a logic behind it.
 
Dec 31, 2015
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Related topic:

Does anyone else think it would be nice to have races where a rider's time is taken as they cross the line and not when the first rider in the group does?
I think it would add a lot (especially to the type of race where you have normally large groups on the same time in GC). Or in a Grand tour a GC rider who can stay right at the front in a sprint can gain maybe 20 seconds over the race because they finish 2-3 seconds ahead of their rivals in each sprint.

I realize that there would be issues with this (what do you do with a crash in the final, safety, logistics albeit this should be less of a problem in modern times) but I really like the idea of the GC in a race being done this way with no bonifications.
It has always bothered me that a rider can finish just of the back of a large group and the difference between getting the same time as the winner and losing 20 seconds can be minuscule.

I know it's not a big issue but I find it interesting to think about at least.
 
Re:

StephenC2020 said:
Related topic:

Does anyone else think it would be nice to have races where a rider's time is taken as they cross the line and not when the first rider in the group does?
I think it would add a lot (especially to the type of race where you have normally large groups on the same time in GC). Or in a Grand tour a GC rider who can stay right at the front in a sprint can gain maybe 20 seconds over the race because they finish 2-3 seconds ahead of their rivals in each sprint.

I realize that there would be issues with this (what do you do with a crash in the final, safety, logistics albeit this should be less of a problem in modern times) but I really like the idea of the GC in a race being done this way with no bonifications.
It has always bothered me that a rider can finish just of the back of a large group and the difference between getting the same time as the winner and losing 20 seconds can be minuscule.

I know it's not a big issue but I find it interesting to think about at least.
I've thought about that as well, previously.

You cannot combine it with the 3-km rule, so either you scrap that and let crashes heavily influence GC, or you only time riders individually on uphill finishes, where the 3-km rule is not in effect.
 
Apr 7, 2016
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Re:

StephenC2020 said:
Related topic:

Does anyone else think it would be nice to have races where a rider's time is taken as they cross the line and not when the first rider in the group does?
I think it would add a lot (especially to the type of race where you have normally large groups on the same time in GC). Or in a Grand tour a GC rider who can stay right at the front in a sprint can gain maybe 20 seconds over the race because they finish 2-3 seconds ahead of their rivals in each sprint.

I realize that there would be issues with this (what do you do with a crash in the final, safety, logistics albeit this should be less of a problem in modern times) but I really like the idea of the GC in a race being done this way with no bonifications.
It has always bothered me that a rider can finish just of the back of a large group and the difference between getting the same time as the winner and losing 20 seconds can be minuscule.

I know it's not a big issue but I find it interesting to think about at least.
It's a nice idea, but would inevitably lead to (huge) crashes whenever there's a large group, as the riders already past the line would be rapidly slowing down, whereas the ones at the back would still be sprinting, straight into the back of them.
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Re: Re:

Eshnar said:
Time bonuses have been created to give the gc guys a reason to contest stage wins. There's no necessity to put them in ITTs, as they will give it their all anyway. Since there is no necessity and the idea to alter the time result of a time trial sounds weird to most, they haven't been put in TTs. Unfair, I agree, but it has a logic behind it.
Yes, I know the logic, but it still seems unfair. If you're going to distort the classification by introducing bonus seconds, you might as well do it in a way that doesn't benefit one category of riders over another.
 
Dec 31, 2015
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Re: Re:

Netserk said:
StephenC2020 said:
Related topic:

Does anyone else think it would be nice to have races where a rider's time is taken as they cross the line and not when the first rider in the group does?
I think it would add a lot (especially to the type of race where you have normally large groups on the same time in GC). Or in a Grand tour a GC rider who can stay right at the front in a sprint can gain maybe 20 seconds over the race because they finish 2-3 seconds ahead of their rivals in each sprint.

I realize that there would be issues with this (what do you do with a crash in the final, safety, logistics albeit this should be less of a problem in modern times) but I really like the idea of the GC in a race being done this way with no bonifications.
It has always bothered me that a rider can finish just of the back of a large group and the difference between getting the same time as the winner and losing 20 seconds can be minuscule.

I know it's not a big issue but I find it interesting to think about at least.
I've thought about that as well, previously.

You cannot combine it with the 3-km rule, so either you scrap that and let crashes heavily influence GC, or you only time riders individually on uphill finishes, where the 3-km rule is not in effect.

Ya, I think you'd have to scrap the 3km rule which as you say could have crashes ruining the GC and of course Laurensde+ is right, the biggest problem would probably be with safety.
Maybe only doing it on uphill finishes as you suggest, or maybe even on every stage except bunch sprints, i.e. a mountain stage with a flat or final after the last climb would work.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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Re: Re:

Netserk said:
StephenC2020 said:
Related topic:

Does anyone else think it would be nice to have races where a rider's time is taken as they cross the line and not when the first rider in the group does?
I've thought about that as well, previously.

You cannot combine it with the 3-km rule, so either you scrap that and let crashes heavily influence GC, or you only time riders individually on uphill finishes, where the 3-km rule is not in effect.
The rule exists only to ensure that sprinter's team can do a proper sprint train without the GC teams also coming in between.

The only alternative i can think of:
Have all stages with sprint-able finishes be based on the current rule(i dont mind extending last-3 to last-5 km)
On MTFs or non sprint stages, individually time the riders.

But, FS there is not going to be much of a time gap. So, let the rule stay the way it is.
 

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