Cadel and a wheel change

[Bustedknuckle]

At the Vuelta...Velonews.com wrote..

"That prompted Evans to take a wheel from the Shimano neutral support, but team officials weren’t sure if it was a 10-speed or an 11-speed casette, so Silence sport director Marc Wauters made the call to stop Evans again and switch his bike. They later discovered that the neutral support wheel was the correct one."

So shimano neutral support has 11s wheels( makes sense since there are 5-6 teams with 11s), wonder how shimano does this..with a 'off brand' hub or did they make a 11s Campagnolo compatible set of wheels or what?

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

evans lost time. it's done. let us move on.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

evans lost time. it's done. let us move on.

?? I don't care if he lost time, I was interested in how shimano provides for a 11s wheel.....

 

[powderpuff]

So shimano neutral support has 11s wheels( makes sense since there are 5-6 teams with 11s), wonder how shimano does this..with a 'off brand' hub or did they make a 11s Campagnolo compatible set of wheels or what?

Being neutral support I think they are obliged to carry both Shimano and Campagnolo wheels; they may not have all the advertising logos over it for the conflict of interest stuff.

 

[taiwan]

Who previously did the neutral service at the Vuelta? I've never even seen Shimano doing this before, but probably because I've not watched enough cycling in previous years. They'll just produce a compatible cassette themselves I think. I don't think it would be that hard. Doesn't mean they'll start selling them, I wouldn't think. There was Gerdemann's incident as well this year, wasn't there. Bad publicity for them.

How hard is it to tell wheter a wheel is 10 or 11 speed?

 

[iliveonnitro]

Who previously did the neutral service at the Vuelta? I've never even seen Shimano doing this before, but probably because I've not watched enough cycling in previous years. They'll just produce a compatible cassette themselves I think. I don't think it would be that hard. Doesn't mean they'll start selling them, I wouldn't think. There was Gerdemann's incident as well this year, wasn't there. Bad publicity for them.

How hard is it to tell wheter a wheel is 10 or 11 speed?

Shimano has had a long-standing contract with the UCI to provide support.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Who previously did the neutral service at the Vuelta? I've never even seen Shimano doing this before, but probably because I've not watched enough cycling in previous years. They'll just produce a compatible cassette themselves I think. I don't think it would be that hard. Doesn't mean they'll start selling them, I wouldn't think. There was Gerdemann's incident as well this year, wasn't there. Bad publicity for them.

How hard is it to tell wheter a wheel is 10 or 11 speed?

Pretty hard to do it quickly. If they do complete support, they would need shimano/sram 10s, Campagnolo 10s(AG2R), Campagnolo 11s.

Considering the freehub height, I think cramming 11s onto a shimano freehub would be 'interesting'. Campagnolo freehub is taller, hence the wider spacing for their 10s and also room for 11s w/o making the cogs way thin.

BUT who knows, shimano has deep pockets.

Anybody that frequents this NG there at the Vuelta? Take a look at the wheels on top of the shimano car, yak wth the dudes that drive the car?

 

[taiwan]

Taller freehub body. Didn't know that, and it didn't occur to me. Can anyone see anything wrong with building another small cog onto the cassette lockring? I thought an alloy freehub body might not take it, but if you had an 11 or 12t fixed cog that would be threaded onto alloy. You could respace the hub slightly to keep the cog away from the dropout, and dish the wheel differently. You could also machine a block of the smallest 4 cogs, say, out of one piece of steel, so that the outermost was supported by the others. Having said all that maybe they do just un-brand someone else's wheels. It would be easier.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Taller freehub body. Didn't know that, and it didn't occur to me. Can anyone see anything wrong with building another small cog onto the cassette lockring? I thought an alloy freehub body might not take it, but if you had an 11 or 12t fixed cog that would be threaded onto alloy. You could respace the hub slightly to keep the cog away from the dropout, and dish the wheel differently. You could also machine a block of the smallest 4 cogs, say, out of one piece of steel, so that the outermost was supported by the others. Having said all that maybe they do just un-brand someone else's wheels. It would be easier.

Or just use some rebranded Campagnolo wheels, with an agreement with Campagnolo. shimano and Campagnolo DO have a pretty good relationship, both not that thrilled with sram, their dumping stuff everywhere.

 

[Cobber]

My 2 cents regarding the wheel change.

The neutral service vehicle should have a list showing what type of drivetrain each team is riding. It should be really big and right in front of the guy in the car that runs out with the wheel.

 

[The_Z_man]

Who previously did the neutral service at the Vuelta?

I didn't know that anybody but Mavic provided neutral support. Of course, they're just the easiest to spot. You'd have to be blind to miss that color yellow.

 

[Bala Verde]

If you have a team that runs the 'exotic' 11 speed, possibly due to sponsorship concerns, you willingly run a risk. I don't think you can blame the neutral service for not knowing all the specs per team. Now you already have Carbon/no Carbon; Shimano-SRAM 10/Campy; 10 Shimano-SRAM 10/Campy 11. In a couple of years from now, with the ongoing 'technical progress' you need a touring car size support vehicle...

Blame the sponsor for making them ride with an 11 speed.

I would also think that Shimano does not produce 11 hubs compatible with campy 11 speed. Why would they start the industrial production of hubs they are not going to use outside races and sell in the market. Isn't it more logical that they just use campy hubs?

 

[taiwan]

I admit they probably just use Camagnolo wheels. Pity I haven't been able to see on TV. I'd like to know what wheels they use.

 

[Master50]

Years ago Mavic had 10 speed Campy cassettes on their neutral wheels. They just made a free hub body that accepted a Campy cassette. I am sure that Shimano has some good machinists that can make a free hub body that accept a Campy cassette. I am sure they also can make cogs that match the spacing too.
As a note: Campagnolo wheels are available with Shimano compatible free hubs. Campagnolo makes both.
Mavic is the most visible and largest neutral support crew but SRAM, Shimano and Campagnolo also provide neutral support at races.

 

[Bala Verde]

Here is a vid of the 'wheel change'. Via Youtube in dutch

I wonder what happened because at 15-20s you can see Evans turning his crank quickly, as if the chain had come off the big ring. He also didn't take out his rear wheel, something riders usually do when they have a flat.

In the end they don't even swap out the wheel, and Evans even wants to continue on the bike he had problems with. Only then he gets on a new one when the SIL car has pulled up.

 

[taiwan]

Looks like they couldn't remove the wheel. I think you can see the flat though. Evans said that the team mechanic ran up the hill with the spare bike, but it was on the team car.

 

[Irish2009]

If neutral service didn't know what type wheel he was on they should get the boot. Even in minor races i've got better changes than that...no excuses it was a crap wheel change and cost Evans big time.

 

[usedtobefast]

i did see the stage on universal and he rear wheel was flat. he road as long as he could, but attacks were flying. bad luck for him. been there, not at that level, with neutral support.

 

[badboyberty]

CyclingNews is stating neutral support gave Gerdemann the wrong tyre causing his crash on stage 10 "The neutral service technicians gave him the wrong tyre, and he subsequently crashed on the next curve." Coincidence or incompetence?

And can someone explain to me how a 'wrong' tyre would cause a crash?

 

[rgmerk]

If neutral service didn't know what type wheel he was on they should get the boot. Even in minor races i've got better changes than that...no excuses it was a crap wheel change and cost Evans big time.

As others have pointed out, it's not much effort to make up a checklist of teams and their wheels. Heck, I'd probably get some big and easy-to-remove tags or something in different colours and color-code the wheels "Shimano/Sram", "Campy 10" and "Campy 11" just to make sure I didn't make a mistake and grab the wrong wheel when I was in a hurry.

That said, you'd think there must have been more to it than that. Maybe the rear brake release lever was jammed up or something? But even if that was the case, how long does it take an expert mechanic to grab his bike tool, undo the cable, and release the wheel? 5 seconds, if that? Had to have been either something drivetrain related (chain?) or maybe a problem with the skewer?

In any case, it's possible that a mechanic under the extreme pressure of making a wheelchange that might decide podium places in the Vuelta just screwed up. It's unfortunate, but it happens. But you'd hope that the support vehicle at a Grand Tour was staffed by experienced race mechanics. If it wasn't, that's a major screwup by the organizers.

Has anybody from the press gone and asked either a) Shimano, or b) the Vuelta organizers, what the problem was?

 

[Bala Verde]

And can someone explain to me how a 'wrong' tyre would cause a crash?

The story was carbon brake pads on bike vs new replaced alu rim