Campa cog problems

[Major Taylor]

I bought a used bike equipped with centaur 10. I didn't like the cog set, a 11-23 so I ordered a Veloce 12-25. I also ordered the tool a Park BBT-5. This tool doesn’t fit the new Veloce lockring, but does fit the old Centaur lockring. What gives?

The bike shop told me it wasn’t a Campa lockring because it’s not stamped with the name. But all the cogs are stamped, just not the lock ring.

Comparing the Centaur lock r ring with the new Veloce-they don’t look the same although the tool looks like it should fit. Also the cogs stack a little bit to high on the cassette meaning that the new 12 tooth Veloce spins freely on the top of the cluster.

Have I done something wrong, or has wiggle sold me some doggy stuff?

 

[Race Radio]

I bought a used bike equipped with centaur 10. I didn't like the cog set, a 11-23 so I ordered a Veloce 12-25. I also ordered the tool a Park BBT-5. This tool doesn’t fit the new Veloce lockring, but does fit the old Centaur lockring. What gives?

The bike shop told me it wasn’t a Campa lockring because it’s not stamped with the name. But all the cogs are stamped, just not the lock ring.

Comparing the Centaur lock r ring with the new Veloce-they don’t look the same although the tool looks like it should fit. Also the cogs stack a little bit to high on the cassette meaning that the new 12 tooth Veloce spins freely on the top of the cluster.

Have I done something wrong, or has wiggle sold me some doggy stuff?

Sounds odd. Can you post a picture of the lockring/cassette?

 

[ElChingon]

If you just bought it then get a refund or exchange ASAP, don't wait. I've used that BBT-5 since 8 speed, still works.

 

[Major Taylor]

I have an inelegant solution, which at least works in my driveway. I took the 17 off of the new cog set and kept the 12 and 11 from the old cog set allowing me to us the 11 tooth lock ring, and the Park tool. So now I have a 11-25 with a big jump in the middle.

What I may do is buy a different lock ring from a shop so that I can return it if It doesn't work.

The other problem , that it was stacking to high went away when I found a metal washer stuck to the hub body. I am not sure what it was doing there, maybe it was part of the old cog set?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I bought a used bike equipped with centaur 10. I didn't like the cog set, a 11-23 so I ordered a Veloce 12-25. I also ordered the tool a Park BBT-5. This tool doesn’t fit the new Veloce lockring, but does fit the old Centaur lockring. What gives?

The bike shop told me it wasn’t a Campa lockring because it’s not stamped with the name. But all the cogs are stamped, just not the lock ring.

Comparing the Centaur lock r ring with the new Veloce-they don’t look the same although the tool looks like it should fit. Also the cogs stack a little bit to high on the cassette meaning that the new 12 tooth Veloce spins freely on the top of the cluster.

Have I done something wrong, or has wiggle sold me some doggy stuff?

NOT a Campagnolo lockring, and make sure the cogs are Campagnolo as are the spacers. A UK MO place sell doggy stuff?? Really??

 

[kiwirider]

I have an inelegant solution, which at least works in my driveway. I took the 17 off of the new cog set and kept the 12 and 11 from the old cog set allowing me to us the 11 tooth lock ring, and the Park tool. So now I have a 11-25 with a big jump in the middle.

What I may do is buy a different lock ring from a shop so that I can return it if It doesn't work.

The other problem , that it was stacking to high went away when I found a metal washer stuck to the hub body. I am not sure what it was doing there, maybe it was part of the old cog set?

This doesn't make sense ... You should be able to run the Centaur lock ring with the Veloce cassette without needing to monkey around the cogs like you've done. I use lockrings from various Record and Chorus cassettes that I've used over the years with the Veloce cassettes I use as my day to day and cyclocross cassettes without having to do anything to either the lock ring or the cassette.

To me it sounds like there is something not right about the cassette (as BK said, make sure it is all Campag) or the freehub body if you're having these problems. To that end, what kind of wheels have you got?

A personal cautionary tale - don't ride the bike with anything other than the complete old cassette that you know locks on properly until you get this sorted. A couple of years back I bought a kit to space out a shimano cassette to Campag (I was riding a set of OEM wheels to the death before I completed the change to Campag on my cross bike). I did a wheel swap and put that same cassette on a set of loaner wheels. It didn't fit quite as well, but after a bit of fiddling and fitting a spacer against the freehub body I managed to get the lock ring to bind properly (I've changed enough cassettes over 20 years to know what it should look/feel like when properly tightened) ... or so I thought. It rode well for 2 weeks, but I found out at the bottom of a 70km/h hill that it had worked loose - and it spun free when I got up out of the saddle in the 53x12 to try to grind over the next rise. Effect was similar to breaking a chain at the same speed ... A ruined set of really nice shorts, scars across a tatoo and a fair bit of spilt blood were the result ...

 

[Major Taylor]

This doesn't make sense ... You should be able to run the Centaur lock ring with the Veloce cassette without needing to monkey around the cogs like you've done. I use lockrings from various Record and Chorus cassettes that I've used over the years with the Veloce cassettes I use as my day to day and cyclocross cassettes without having to do anything to either the lock ring or the cassette.

To me it sounds like there is something not right about the cassette (as BK said, make sure it is all Campag) or the freehub body if you're having these problems. To that end, what kind of wheels have you got?

The lockring I am using is for an 11 tooth cog, and the lock ring they sent me is for a twelve. I read some place that they are different. Is that not accurate?

I will take the wheel off and check to see that the cogs are still sitting on the cassette properly.

I have been mail ordering stuff for 20 years and never gotten anything that was verifiability fake.

 

[Race Radio]

The lockring I am using is for an 11 tooth cog, and the lock ring they sent me is for a twelve. I read some place that they are different. Is that not accurate?

I will take the wheel off and check to see that the cogs are still sitting on the cassette properly.

I have been mail ordering stuff for 20 years and never gotten anything that was verifiability fake.

For 10 Speed they are indeed different. I think the 12/13/14 has CS 401 on it an is slightly rounded. The 11 is flat

 

[Major Taylor]

For 10 Speed they are indeed different. I think the 12/13/14 has CS 401 on it an is slightly rounded. The 11 is flat

Yep that is what they look like. I will try to post a pic for you.

Besides being stamped Campagnolo and fitting the cassette how can you actually verify that it's the real goods?

When I GIS it the cogs looks right. The lockring does not, I can't find one example that isn't stamped with Campagnolo or Made in Italy.

 

[Race Radio]

Yep that is what they look like. I will try to post a pic for you.

Besides being stamped Campagnolo and fitting the cassette how can you actually verify that it's the real goods?

When I GIS it the cogs looks right. The lockring does not, I can't find one example that isn't stamped with Campagnolo or Made in Italy.

I have a couple that were not stamped Campy and they worked fine.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

A bit of a non sequitur, but I have both Campy 11 and Shimano bits, and I accidentally put a C11 wheel/cassette on my DA10 bike.

I only noticed slight shifting noises and I figured I had to adjust the shifting when I got home. It was only then that I realized I had the wrong setup.

Anyway, I was somewhat surprised that this was the only problem I had with the shifting.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

A bit of a non sequitur, but I have both Campy 11 and Shimano bits, and I accidentally put a C11 wheel/cassette on my DA10 bike.

I only noticed slight shifting noises and I figured I had to adjust the shifting when I got home. It was only then that I realized I had the wrong setup.

Anyway, I was somewhat surprised that this was the only problem I had with the shifting.

Like Campagnolo 10s and shimano 9s, Campagnolo 11s and shimano 10s gear spacing is pretty close. shimano 11s and Campagnolo 11s is also going to be pretty close.

 

[Notso Swift]

done it in races, with 10 speed, shifts are not right, but they still work

 

[Major Taylor]

Here is the picture

 

[Race Radio]

That is the 12/13/14 lockring

 

[ElChingon]

I have never seen a 12/13/14 lockring! Only roll with the 11's

It does look new, BBT-5 still won't turn it?

 

[Major Taylor]

I have never seen a 12/13/14 lockring! Only roll with the 11's

It does look new, BBT-5 still won't turn it?

Nope, it doesn't fit properly. I might be able to get it to turn, but if I tightened it I think it might damage the lock ring. And the tool fits the old 11 tooth Centaur lock ring fine.

 

[kiwirider]

Different to my lock rings ... They all just have CS401 and the lock direction and torque setting stamped into them.

Could it be an aftermarket part made by someone else (and sold in with the Veloce cassette by the mail order place) and therefore not to proper spec? I mean, does anyone make that sort of thing?

Other question relates to your freehub and the other lockring - since you also say that the 12 lockring doesn't bind into the freehub ....

Has someone potentially monkeyed your wheel? Is the freehub maybe cross-threaded from the 11 or something silly like that? To that end, what hubs/wheels have you got?

As I said in my previous post, I've had everything from Record to Veloce on my wheels (handbuilts with Record or Daytona hubs) and have never had a problem fitting them on. So, IMHO, there is no sensible reason why one 10 speed Campag cassette should fit and another one wouldn't unless either you have a bogus cassette (which it seems you don't) or there is damage or some other problem with the freehub ...

Would seriously suggest a visit to LBS with wheel and cassettes to see what they would suggest - assuming of course that they "speak Campagnolo" and don't just try to tell you that "you never get this kind of problem with Shimano/SRAM" ...

 

[Race Radio]

I have a lot of Campy Cassettes. I went and checked a brand new, in the box, 13-26 10 speed and it has the exact same lockring. The tool fits it fine

 

[Major Taylor]

I have a lot of Campy Cassettes. I went and checked a brand new, in the box, 13-26 10 speed and it has the exact same lockring. The tool fits it fine

Maybe there was some quality control problems there at the Campa factory one day. The floor staff had to much Chianti with lunch?

 

[Major Taylor]

Other question relates to your freehub and the other lockring - since you also say that the 12 lockring doesn't bind into the freehub ....

It's not that the lockrings won't bind to the hub. Both screw into it just fine.

When I first tried to install the new cogs they seemed a bit too tall for the hub body which meant that neither lockring was quite long enough to engage the threads.

On closer examination I found that a very thin spacer had been placed around the hub under the old cogs-like a washer. I didn't notice it the first time because it was stuck to the freehub body by the old grease. Once I took that off there was no problem.

Why the spacer/washer thing was there is also a bit of a mystery to me. It's an American classic hub.

 

[kiwirider]

It's not that the lockrings won't bind to the hub. Both screw into it just fine.

When I first tried to install the new cogs they seemed a bit too tall for the hub body which meant that neither lockring was quite long enough to engage the threads.

On closer examination I found that a very thin spacer had been placed around the hub under the old cogs-like a washer. I didn't notice it the first time because it was stuck to the freehub body by the old grease. Once I took that off there was no problem.

Why the spacer/washer thing was there is also a bit of a mystery to me. It's an American classic hub.

Ok, gotcha ... I'd (mis)read a couple of your posts as saying that the cassette that came with the bike fitted fine, but you couldn't get the new one to fit properly without taking cogs out, hence my going off on a tangent like that ...

 

[Race Radio]

It's not that the lockrings won't bind to the hub. Both screw into it just fine.

When I first tried to install the new cogs they seemed a bit too tall for the hub body which meant that neither lockring was quite long enough to engage the threads.

On closer examination I found that a very thin spacer had been placed around the hub under the old cogs-like a washer. I didn't notice it the first time because it was stuck to the freehub body by the old grease. Once I took that off there was no problem.

Why the spacer/washer thing was there is also a bit of a mystery to me. It's an American classic hub.

The new hubs I just got have a similar super thin "spacer". Was told to leave it on when I use a 11 cassette and take it off when I use a 10.....of course yours could be different

 

[FignonLeGrand]

done it in races, with 10 speed, shifts are not right, but they still work

In a recent grand fondo my back wheel bearing gave in. The organizers gave me a 10 speed shimano wheel which I ran on my 9 speed campag shifers. Wasnt perfect but changed fine, didnt jump and I could use all 10 gears....

 

[FignonLeGrand]

It's not that the lockrings won't bind to the hub. Both screw into it just fine.

When I first tried to install the new cogs they seemed a bit too tall for the hub body which meant that neither lockring was quite long enough to engage the threads.

On closer examination I found that a very thin spacer had been placed around the hub under the old cogs-like a washer. I didn't notice it the first time because it was stuck to the freehub body by the old grease. Once I took that off there was no problem.

Why the spacer/washer thing was there is also a bit of a mystery to me. It's an American classic hub.

On campagnolo bodies if a spacer is needed its usually down to the hub manufacturer