Can recovery therapy be considered doping?

[craig1985]

I have seen it mentioned a few times in a few threads lately, and my question is, can it be considered to be doping, or just helping to recover quicker? Now I'm not one of these "100% doped lolz" people, but given how hard cycling is on your body, especially in the Pro's and GT's, is it reasonable to need some help to recover? My cycling coach said a few years ago that it is likely that they all take vitamin C via IV as taking it orally is useless, because even with massage, sleep, and good food, it can't be enough, but I'm not sure how much basis or fact there is behind it.

I know from personal experience as well, riding 1 col a day for 3 straight day's in the Pyrennes a few year's ago, come the 4th, and I could barely swing my leg over my bike (mind you I had severe cramps the previous day after riding the Tourmalet). I'm not sure if that is just me, or a common case with other cyclists or even at GT level.

Now as I said, I'm hardly a cycnical person, but I have never believed the whole "bread and water" arguement, as it involves a little bit more then that.

 

[Cobber]

Yes it is doping. It is using drugs to perform better in a stage race, and thus these drugs are performance-enhancing. Case closed!

 

[forty four]

getting vitc or b vitamin shots is not doping micro dosing epo testosterone hgh etc.. is simple.

 

[Oldman]

Doping or not?

It's always been a personal threshold to avoid IV or injections. Obviously PEDs can be taken orally but the needle part seemed to be hard core. Suppose it would be different if you had health-threatening dehydration but it seems young riders should not get used to putting stuff in their body this way.

 

[Martinello]

Regarding Vitamin C:
It is correct that higher plasma concentrations (>5mM) can only be obtained by IV administration. The high plasma concentration is only transient as the vitamin c (actually ascorbate) is excreted renally.

There is no evidence what-so-ever that vitamin c deficiency in healthy people cannot be corrected by oral administration. The only patient group supplemented with IV ascorbate these days are dialysis patients.

IV vitamin C has been a popular complementary cancer therapeutic and recent cell line and xenograft studies have rejuvenated the interest in that area, but that is a totally different story.

 

[David Suro]

It is only illegal doping if the rules of the sport are broken. As far as I know, it is not against the rules to receive a vitamin via injection or an IV for rehydration.

Cobber mentioned that using any drug to enhance performance is doping. I do not agree. The caffeine in a can of coke or a power gel frequently used by cyclists in the final part of a stage to get a boost of energy. Caffeine is a drug, but I would not consider a rider who consumes an espresso gel to be a doper.

As for what your coach said regarding oral vitamins being useless, I do not agree with that, either. Administering vitamins via IV is a way to get more of them into the blood stream quickly, but orally consumed vitamins are far from useless.

To aid recovery, cyclists can legally comsume anti-inflammatory supplements or alkalyzing substances that are not banned. The use of nutritional aids to help with recovery is one of the aims of exercise physiology research. I think this research is great. Recreational athletes can read about what the top pros do to legally enhance performance and/or recovery and implement those same strategies in their own lives. Such advancements are good for everyone. It was not that long ago that physiologists thought eating a salt tablet during strenuous exercise in the heat was better than drinking water.

 

[pmcg76]

It is only illegal doping if the rules of the sport are broken. As far as I know, it is not against the rules to receive a vitamin via injection or an IV for rehydration.

Cobber mentioned that using any drug to enhance performance is doping. I do not agree. The caffeine in a can of coke or a power gel frequently used by cyclists in the final part of a stage to get a boost of energy. Caffeine is a drug, but I would not consider a rider who consumes an espresso gel to be a doper.

As for what your coach said regarding oral vitamins being useless, I do not agree with that, either. Administering vitamins via IV is a way to get more of them into the blood stream quickly, but orally consumed vitamins are far from useless.

To aid recovery, cyclists can legally comsume anti-inflammatory supplements or alkalyzing substances that are not banned. The use of nutritional aids to help with recovery is one of the aims of exercise physiology research. I think this research is great. Recreational athletes can read about what the top pros do to legally enhance performance and/or recovery and implement those same strategies in their own lives. Such advancements are good for everyone. It was not that long ago that physiologists thought eating a salt tablet during strenuous exercise in the heat was better than drinking water.

There has always been a fine line between what is legal/illegal or beneficial/non beneficial in regards to doping. I think most riders go through an early induction to using a needle even if its only for legal vitamins etc. The problem is when somebody starts with a needle, its easy to slip over to something illegal, even without knowing it. Its the slippery slope. I dont think there is an athlete competing at a high level in any sport that is purely on bread and water. Thats just ridiculous.

 

[Oldman]

There has always been a fine line between what is legal/illegal or beneficial/non beneficial in regards to doping. I think most riders go through an early induction to using a needle even if its only for legal vitamins etc. The problem is when somebody starts with a needle, its easy to slip over to something illegal, even without knowing it. Its the slippery slope. I dont think there is an athlete competing at a high level in any sport that is purely on bread and water. Thats just ridiculous.

Totally agree on a personal level. Also have friends who were dosed by team coaches without their knowledge. It started with the "vitamins". Coaches that have been involved in US Olympic efforts.

 

[Laszlo]

I think the op might have been meaning vitamin B instead of C. I recall reading that Lemond had a B IV drip one night after a hard day in the tour and was recovered the next day- but the IV administration caused others to accuse him of doping. ( I was just starting to get into cycling at the time so I can only paraphrase my impression of the particulars of the story ).

I think there is far to much understanding and leeway given to dopers. Amateurs should see doping as not being "man enough" for the job, like having a propensity to walking around in high-heels and wearing womens undergarments - regardless of where we are in egalitarianism, public cross-dressers are subject to a certain ammount of ridicule, which is why we rarely see it. If dopers were subject to such ridicule and humiliation upon their return to the fold, I will guess we'd all see a lot less of that.

 

[egtalbot]

I know that Vitamin B-12 taken orally often is useless. The reason is that processing B-12 is reasonably complex and a significant number of individuals are unable to process it in pill format effectively. So to some extent whether it works or not depends on the individual. Alternatives are:

1.take large doses orally - 2000mg or more. the body only needs a handful of mg per day and there is an alternate physiological mechanism by which a small fraction of the amount taken can be absorbed. So even if you can't absorb it the normal way, "over" dosing may get you enough. Or it may not.

2.take injections - this works and is not banned.

3.eat more foods with B-12. May or may not be effective, depends on the individual


The reason I know all this is that I had a minor B-12 deficiency at one point and speculated that it was causing a variety of intermittent fatigue and sleeping problems. I did the research and tried the large doses for about six months. It had no impact on my B-12 levels or the fatigue.

 

[derailleur]

If the sport says you're allowed to take it and the law says you're allowed to take it and your doctor says you're allowed to take it, it's not doping and it's not cheating the sport and it's not committing a crime.

And if the public is told that it's allowed then it's not cheating the fans, either.

Dehydration shouldn't be so much of a problem in cycling that IVs are needed. The service vehicles should be swarming the riders offering bottles and riders should be taking them. Dehydration isn't just an inconvenience, it's a performance sink.

It's even sillier that football players need IVs at halftime. 2/3rds of any football game is standing-around time. Half of that your side isn't even on the field. TV time-outs, breaks in the quarters, all sorts of opportunity for a water-boy to stuff a bottle in Brett Favre's face and tell him "drink or die, old fart." Seriously. If any ball player needs a mid-day IV, he's too dumb even to be a jock, and his coaches are negligent to a criminal degree.

 

[PACONi]

If you're using substances/methods on the banned list then its doping. Simple as that really. Doesn't matter what you call it.

 

[trekbikes]

What constitutes doping is a very complex affair. Of course taking a substance on the banned substance list can be considered doping. However not many people are aware that for certain cyclists the matter is more complex than this.

Take for example a continental rider not on the national or international testing pool (no out of competition tests).

If this rider has asthma then a doctor may prescribe Salbutamol ( a substance on the banned list for 2009). A certificate for salbutamol can be obtained if it is needed to treat asthma (therapeutic usage exemption (TUE)).

These certificates however are only available to riders in the international or national testing pools (riders subject to out of competition tests).

Therefore this continental rider when tested in competition must declare their usage of salbutamol. Then once the test comes back non negative for salbutamol the rider must undergo tests to prove that they needed the salbutamol for medical reasons and were not taking it for performance enhancing purposes.

This leaves the rider with the problem of having to test positive in order to obtain the certificate they are entitled to.

To further complicate the matter Salbutamol is being taken off the list of substances that need a TUE for 2010 and instead riders will need to simply declare usage.

So if a rider was tested in Dec 2009 they would have to go through this process of proving they need the salbutamol but if they were tested in Jan 2010 they wouldn't.

 

[Ripper]

If you're using substances/methods on the banned list then its doping. Simple as that really. Doesn't matter what you call it.

Yup, I agree.

Also, this is kinda an odd thread.

or does the OP mean massage and stuff like that