Cav and Cipo comparison

[Zweistein]

Here are some things to keep in mind as to how good Cav is:

Cav is 26 years of age and has 20 Tour stage wins to Cipo's 11. Erik Zabel only has 12 TDF stages.

Cav has one the green jersey while officials threated to not invite Cipo's team becuase he bailed all the time from the Tour as soon as it started going up hill.

Cav won the San Milan - Remo at just 23 years of age and it took Cipo forever to just get over the hill.

The Giro was ridden very slowly on the flat stages during a good chunk of Cipo's career and looked at as training for the tour. Tour stages are much harder to come by than Giro stages, even now. Cipo has a very good record at the Giro but the truth is that all the big guns show up at the Tour.

Cav won the worlds this year at 26 and Cipo won it when he was 35.

I don't bring this up to put Cipo down or anything. If the course suited Cipo, it was very difficult to beat him but he isn't as well rounded as Cav. I don't think a lot of people on this board get how good Cav really is. This guy is a once in 20 years kind of a sprinter.

 

[therealtimshady]

Cipo's has more personality for me his outfits were hilarious at times (the caesar one springs to Mind) not that this has any effect on riding a bike successfully. His row with the aso meant that he was left with winning far less stages in the tour than he should

 

[roundabout]

I doubt Cavenidish will ever win E3.

Or finish top-10 in Flanders for that matter.

Speaking of well rounded

 

[Zweistein]

I doubt Cavenidish will ever win E3.

Or finish top-10 in Flanders for that matter.

Speaking of well rounded

Being in the top ten at Flanders doesn't mean much. The race has been finishing with a huge bunch rolling it after the first couple of riders finish. If the race is raced conservatively, it isn't that hard for a no name to sneak into the top 10. Being a player is completely different than sitting on wheels and hoping for a top ten.

 

[The Hitch]

Cipo 2002 >>>>>>> Cav 2011.

Otherwise, Cav> Cipo.

 

[craig1985]

Cipo at his finest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4XxCZagAjk

I hate these comparisons as one's in the middle of his career and has won a lot at an early age and another has retired and turned pro when the former was only 3 and half years old!

 

[Swabian Lass]

Cipo at his finest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4XxCZagAjk

I hate these comparisons as one's in the middle of his career and has won a lot at an early age and another has retired and turned pro when the former was only 3 and half years old!

Agreed. I don't think that we can make a meaningful comparison yet. Give it another five years and it might make some more sense.

 

[happychappy]

Cipo at his finest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4XxCZagAjk

I hate these comparisons as one's in the middle of his career and has won a lot at an early age and another has retired and turned pro when the former was only 3 and half years old!

That video is amazing, and nothing less then the utterly oblivious ****wits on the motobikes deserve.

 

[ultimobici]

I doubt Cavenidish will ever win E3.

Or finish top-10 in Flanders for that matter.

Speaking of well rounded

1993 E3 was a who's who of sprinters, makes one wonder what the proper cobbles men were playing at. Vanderaerden was the only big hitter there, but he was in the twilight of his career by then.

As for the 2002 Ronde, he led in the bunch that rolled in 2'27" down on Tafi, Museeuw & co. Hardly a glittering performance. He did nothing all race, just followed wheels on a day when the break lasted 209km, FFS!

 

[Maxiton]

That video is amazing, and nothing less then the utterly oblivious ****wits on the motobikes deserve.

Yeah, you gotta hand it to Cipo. The man knew how to throw a bottle and when!

I don't think we can say that Cav is in the middle of his career, though. More like the end of the beginning. He might not have peaked yet. He could totally fall apart for who knows what reason but if he doesn't he stands to be the winningest sprinter ever.

I hope he takes Cipo's words to heart, though, and continues to push himself and stay disciplined and hungry.

 

[Afrank]

It's difficult to compare the two at this time, but I do think Cav still has a lot of potential to be greater then Cipollini, and we can already consider him one of the greatest sprinters of all time.

 

[Night Rider]

Cav could stop racing now and would be judged better than Cipo.

Four key criteria in my mind for being considered 'the best' sprinter.

1. Must win a WC.
2. Must win a MSR.
3. Must win a Green Jersey.
4. Must win either a truck load of GT stages or multiples of 1 and 2.

One of the riders is missing a key component, and his 42 Giro wins don't make up for it.

 

[El Pistolero]

1993 E3 was a who's who of sprinters, makes one wonder what the proper cobbles men were playing at. Vanderaerden was the only big hitter there, but he was in the twilight of his career by then.

As for the 2002 Ronde, he led in the bunch that rolled in 2'27" down on Tafi, Museeuw & co. Hardly a glittering performance. He did nothing all race, just followed wheels on a day when the break lasted 209km, FFS!

Cavendish is not even good enough to do that.

 

[Mambo95]

Comparing two riders before they've both retired is pointless. (Judge Kelly or Petacchi at Cav's current age and they seem quite poor).

What I do know is that Cavendish has reinvented what a sprinter should be. While others can match and even better his top speed, his acceleration hasn't been seen before and his low profile position is already influencing the likes of Guardini and Appollonio.

Line every sprinter ever with equivalent teams and I'd back Cav to win 50% at least. Unlike any other current rider, he's a game changing phenomenon.

(Nothing against Cipo - I like him.)

 

[Zweistein]

Cavendish is not even good enough to do that.

He is able to win San Milan so he has a good chance. If not, what is the merit in towing in 20th place? If you want to give merit to a sprinter for that than you must think Eisel is king.

 

[Arnout]

Comparisons between those two are a bit useless in my opinion. People say Mario never finished the Tour but they forget that he always did the Giro and won 42(!) stages in it.

They're both all-time greats and best sprinter of a generation.

 

[El Pistolero]

He is able to win San Milan so he has a good chance. If not, what is the merit in towing in 20th place? If you want to give merit to a sprinter for that than you must think Eisel is king.

He doesn't, just look at his results in the cobbled classics. Milan-San Remo is a lot easier than the Ronde van Vlaanderen.

 

[roundabout]

He is able to win San Milan so he has a good chance. If not, what is the merit in towing in 20th place? If you want to give merit to a sprinter for that than you must think Eisel is king.

Eisel is a very good classics rider. He must like the hobbit a lot and is paid well to do what he does.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I doubt Cavenidish will ever win E3.

Or finish top-10 in Flanders for that matter.

Speaking of well rounded

or win gent wevelgem

 

[roundabout]

Don't know about that. Depends on the route.

But even he does it won't be in the fashion that Cipollini won in 2002.

 

[El Pistolero]

Don't know about that. Depends on the route.

This year he won't come close.

 

[sublimit]

He doesn't, just look at his results in the cobbled classics. Milan-San Remo is a lot easier than the Ronde van Vlaanderen.

Try telling that to Heinrich Haussler.

He's made for that race but still hasn't done it, Some of the legendary sprinters like Cipo winning it just once and Pettaci also once - that says how difficult it is - Ok its an easy race to finish but not to win as such.

 

[El Pistolero]

Try telling that to Heinrich Haussler.

He's made for that race but still hasn't done it, Some of the legendary sprinters like Cipo winning it just once and Pettaci also once - that says how difficult it is - Ok its an easy race to finish but not to win as such.

That is true, but the same goes for Vlaanderen(except the easy to finish part) - if not even more so because of the dangerous roads.

Milan-San Remo is one of the hardest classics to win for a non-sprinter, but that doesn't make the race too hard for them. The opposite is true in fact: it's too easy for them.

 

[sublimit]

That is true, but the same goes for Vlaanderen(except the easy to finish part) - if not even more so because of the dangerous roads.

Milan-San Remo is one of the hardest classics to win for a non-sprinter, but that doesn't make the race too hard for them. The opposite is true in fact: it's too easy for them.

This is why its underestimated as a race, clearly the sprinters fancy their chances but unless you're a Zabel or Freire of a few years back there's no real certainty of what will happen for anybody.

Tom Boonen is another top rider thats blanked in this race.

 

[El Pistolero]

This is why its underestimated as a race, clearly the sprinters fancy their chances but unless you're a Zabel or Freire of a few years back there's no real certainty of what will happen for anybody.

Tom Boonen is another top rider thats blanked in this race.

Milan-San Remo is not underestimated - it's the biggest Italian one day race. Tom Boonen was never the fastest sprinter of his generation: Petacchi was better. Freire and Zabel were made for these races. Freire is about to retire which means Cavendish has less competition now unless Goss replaces Freire(which could be possible).

In the nineties this race didn't end in a bunch sprint like it does nowadays... Hence why Cipollini only won one when he was 35 years old. Plus when the race did end in a bunch sprint Zabel was there.

Cavendish wouldn't have won Milan-San Remo so young if he was a cyclist during the nineties.