Ceramic Headsets

[gree0232]

I realize these have been out for a while now, but I see them and wonder of anyone is willing to shell out five times the going rate for a 'normal' headset and whether there is anything that is significant enough to justify that expenditure?

Has anyone used these things, and if so what do you think?

 

[dsut4392]

I realize these have been out for a while now, but I see them and wonder of anyone is willing to shell out five times the going rate for a 'normal' headset and whether there is anything that is significant enough to justify that expenditure?

Has anyone used these things, and if so what do you think?

Never used one and frankly can't see the point. It's not as if one spends any significant energy overcoming friction in the headset with standard bearings, so it's not a case of saving a couple of milliwatts. If you want to use ceramics to save energy, wheels, then BB and pulley bearings are where to do it.

Even standard steel sealed bearing headsets last for years now (e.g. my MTB has been through filth and water for 4 years and while the headset grinds a little it still works fine). Something like a Chris King headset will last longer still. So it's not likely you will see appreciably more longevity in a fair-wether road bike.

There are better, cheaper ways of saving 15g.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I realize these have been out for a while now, but I see them and wonder of anyone is willing to shell out five times the going rate for a 'normal' headset and whether there is anything that is significant enough to justify that expenditure?

Has anyone used these things, and if so what do you think?

Ceramic has morphed into marketing for bicycles. Ceramic are designed for high pressure, high speed and hi temps, none of which are found in a bicycle but maybe you can install in some light inertia wheels with light hubs and like the old saying, a micro ounce on the bike equals 2 micro ounces on your fiends bike..and wallet or something equally inane.

Ceramic on headsets is just nutz, but they sell, like PT Barnum said...a pound on the ....oh, never mind.

 

[forty four]

if you have ever actually spun a ceramic bb vs a traditional bb the resistance is hugely noticeable on the standards i was quite shocked and so were the mechanics at my shop. i now run a ceramic bb its great i would like ceramic bearing in my pulleys as well and hubs for both wheels it makes a noticeable difference i have used both. now for a headset well thats just pointless and *** and a waste of money imo.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Ceramic used for bicycle bearings was one of those inevitable marriages that we couldn't avoid. You'll see as time goes by the price will come down, it has already in some cases. I use Ceramicspeed bearings in some of my wheelbuilds, and I'll admit they're really nice. If a customer requests it and doesn't mind paying the extra money regardless of their ability on the bike I'm not going to talk them out of it, it doesn't up my margin any, just another choice for the end user.

Ceramic in headsets is pretty silly though. The old adage rings true for all this new bike tech no matter how it's applied. "If you build it, they will come".

 

[gree0232]

Well, I ask this because I actually have some concerns with the headset area, particularly on integrated headsets. I realize cartridge bearing may offset some of this, but I wonder if the ceramic bearing (being harder than steel) might actually lead to faster damage of the head tube than standards steel bearing.

It could be BS, but I simply do not know enough about that area of the bike to make anything other than an educated guess. Or maybe just a complete guess?

I just look at all the stresses and starins I put on that area of the bike, and headsets (integrated at least) are easy to swap out - a new carbon frame - not as easy.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Well, I ask this because I actually have some concerns with the headset area, particularly on integrated headsets. I realize cartridge bearing may offset some of this, but I wonder if the ceramic bearing (being harder than steel) might actually lead to faster damage of the head tube than standards steel bearing.

It could be BS, but I simply do not know enough about that area of the bike to make anything other than an educated guess. Or maybe just a complete guess?

I just look at all the stresses and starins I put on that area of the bike, and headsets (integrated at least) are easy to swap out - a new carbon frame - not as easy.

Bearing material for headsets, press fit or drop in, aren't going to effect the structural integrity of the head tube. The only way to screw up that area of a bike is to really mess up a headset install by over tightening the press, or hit a stationary object while out riding.

 

[Black Dog]

if you have ever actually spun a ceramic bb vs a traditional bb the resistance is hugely noticeable on the standards i was quite shocked and so were the mechanics at my shop. i now run a ceramic bb its great i would like ceramic bearing in my pulleys as well and hubs for both wheels it makes a noticeable difference i have used both. now for a headset well thats just pointless and *** and a waste of money imo.

Do they roll better because they are that much better or because the seals are not as secure thus reducing unloaded friction. Also, are they better under load? I am asking because I do not know how much if any a reduction in drag they have over standard bearings. Is there any data out there?

 

[BroDeal]

Do they roll better because they are that much better or because the seals are not as secure thus reducing unloaded friction. Also, are they better under load? I am asking because I do not know how much if any a reduction in drag they have over standard bearings. Is there any data out there?

Hed did some testing and found no measurable difference when hubs were loaded. Aside from differences in seals, people claiming they can feel the difference is a load of hooey.

 

[Black Dog]

Hed did some testing and found no measurable difference when hubs were loaded. Aside from differences in seals, people claiming they can feel the difference is a load of hooey.

That was my suspicion but around hear any question of the 'conventional wisdom' of the marketing gods may land you in a pair of cement shoes in the bottom of a river. Do the ceramic bearings hold up as well. In other words is there some return on investment?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Do the ceramic bearings hold up as well. In other words is there some return on investment?

Yes, ceramic bearings are more durable than steel. A return on investment for the average joe blow consumer, maybe a few years from now. But there's always the market to cater to that wants to ride what the pros ride, whether it gives them actual or perceived advantage. Ceramic bearings are discussed now as if it were taboo, just like any other advancement in bike tech.

 

[TexPat]

That was my suspicion but around hear any question of the 'conventional wisdom' of the marketing gods may land you in a pair of cement shoes in the bottom of a river. Do the ceramic bearings hold up as well. In other words is there some return on investment?

Actually, they don't hold up well, especially in wet conditions as most ceramic cartridges are hybrid (i.e. ceramic balls w/ steel casing). Once the casing corrodes, they're rooted.
Not a good value for money. I've tried them in hubs and bottom brackets with the same results.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Actually, they don't hold up well, especially in wet conditions as most ceramic cartridges are hybrid (i.e. ceramic balls w/ steel casing). Once the casing corrodes, they're rooted.
Not a good value for money. I've tried them in hubs and bottom brackets with the same results.

If the climate you live in is ruining the steel casing that has nothing to do with whether it contains ceramic or steel bearings, you're just SOL when it comes to the lifespan of bike parts.

 

[TexPat]

If the climate you live in is ruining the steel casing that has nothing to do with whether it contains ceramic or steel bearings, you're just SOL when it comes to the lifespan of bike parts.

Well, no. It just means that maintenance is required more often.
It's common perception that ceramics are indestructible, therefore no maintenance is required. Not the case.
Water from washing. Water from rain. It's all the same really. My point was to clarify the nature of what ceramic bearings are--for the most part hybrid and as such prone to the same type of failure as steel.
Then there is the ol' cost-benefit analysis.
I don't think anyone won or lost a race because they were running ceramic bearings.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Well, no. It just means that maintenance is required more often.
It's common perception that ceramics are indestructible, therefore no maintenance is required. Not the case.
Water from washing. Water from rain. It's all the same really. My point was to clarify the nature of what ceramic bearings are--for the most part hybrid and as such prone to the same type of failure as steel.
Then there is the ol' cost-benefit analysis.
I don't think anyone won or lost a race because they were running ceramic bearings.

No I understand, nothing is indestructible, but ceramic ball bearings are more durable than steel. If your climate is ruining the casing of the bearings it doesn't matter what kind of balls are packed in there. I live in a much harsher climate than NZ, which is why most of the industry tests their products here before releasing them to the public, and I can honestly say in 20 years I've burned out exactly one wheelset worth of regular steel ball sealed bearings. Of course race results aren't determined by bearings, it's pretty much a level playing field when more than half of the pro peloton are rolling on them though. Are you old enough to remember how we were talking about aluminum, carbon, and ti bikes when we were all on steel in the 80's and early 90's? Same thing applies to all these new advances in bike tech. People don't want to believe it until a few years down the road when it becomes a standard, which is where ceramics are headed. Your avatar is funny as hell by the way.

 

[TexPat]

No I understand, nothing is indestructible, but ceramic ball bearings are more durable than steel. If your climate is ruining the casing of the bearings it doesn't matter what kind of balls are packed in there. I live in a much harsher climate than NZ, which is why most of the industry tests their products here before releasing them to the public, and I can honestly say in 20 years I've burned out exactly one wheelset worth of regular steel ball sealed bearings. Of course race results aren't determined by bearings, it's pretty much a level playing field when more than half of the pro peloton are rolling on them though. Are you old enough to remember how we were talking about aluminum, carbon, and ti bikes when we were all on steel in the 80's and early 90's? Same thing applies to all these new advances in bike tech. People don't want to believe it until a few years down the road when it becomes a standard, which is where ceramics are headed. Your avatar is funny as hell by the way.

I've been a bicycle mechanic for over twenty five years, and you, sir, have the best record for bearing life I have ever heard!
As for ceramics becoming the standard...time will tell.
Not sure about your contention that NZ is any less harsh than the Twin Cities. Maybe less snow for sure, but we're awfully close to the South Pole and completely surrounded by the sea!

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I've been a bicycle mechanic for over twenty five years, and you, sir, have the best record for bearing life I have ever heard!
As for ceramics becoming the standard...time will tell.
Not sure about your contention that NZ is any less harsh than the Twin Cities. Maybe less snow for sure, but we're awfully close to the South Pole and completely surrounded by the sea!

Yeah, consider me lucky. Most of my crew has a much worse record with sealed bearings, especially the Japanese ones that come in the cheap Taiwanese hubs. I take care of my sh!t better than most I guess. Come ride with us December-February, you'll never want to come back. I suppose being in the middle of the ocean you get the salt factor too mixed with the wet. Salt is a fact of life here as well, they don't call this place the "rust belt" for nothin'.

 

[TexPat]

Yeah, consider me lucky. Most of my crew has a much worse record with sealed bearings, especially the Japanese ones that come in the cheap Taiwanese hubs. I take care of my sh!t better than most I guess. Come ride with us December-February, you'll never want to come back. I suppose being in the middle of the ocean you get the salt factor too mixed with the wet. Salt is a fact of life here as well, they don't call this place the "rust belt" for nothin'.

Being a full blooded American, I know what things look like in winter in your neck of the woods; what's surprising is how strong the bike culture is up there. What I want to know is: How many reindeer do you need to pull your bike through the snow in December?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Being a full blooded American, I know what things look like in winter in your neck of the woods; what's surprising is how strong the bike culture is up there. What I want to know is: How many reindeer do you need to pull your bike through the snow in December?

Shouldn't be so surprising, we have many of the biggest companies in the entire industry right here in the Midwest. No Rudolph, Surly Pugsley.

Hey, what's Invercargill like? I wanna visit sometime. Burt Munro is my hero!

 

[gree0232]

Bearing material for headsets, press fit or drop in, aren't going to effect the structural integrity of the head tube. The only way to screw up that area of a bike is to really mess up a headset install by over tightening the press, or hit a stationary object while out riding.

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Actually, they don't hold up well, especially in wet conditions as most ceramic cartridges are hybrid (i.e. ceramic balls w/ steel casing). Once the casing corrodes, they're rooted.
Not a good value for money. I've tried them in hubs and bottom brackets with the same results.

Agree. Most 'ceramics' are hybrids, cheap w/o hardened steel cones and cups making up the bearing assembly. VERY hard balls, a wee bit or contamination and the steel goes south quickly. Even in relatively dry CO I see toasted ceramics(mostly sram and zipp) all the time.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I've been personally testing Ceramicspeed bearings for over a year now, no problems whatsoever. And this wasn't just race only, daily use. Dusty gravel roads, 10º below winter temps on salted roads, rainy spring and summer days. I made a point to ride these in the worst weather Minnesota has to dish out.... Bearings are like new.

These were hub bearings, but as far as headsets are concerned, use of ceramic is more of a weight saving measure for the gram conscious pro racer. As long as King makes headsets that outlast most people's cycling careers I see no reason to plug headsets with ceramics.

 

[richwagmn]

I've been personally testing Ceramicspeed bearings for over a year now, no problems whatsoever. And this wasn't just race only, daily use. Dusty gravel roads, 10º below winter temps on salted roads, rainy spring and summer days. I made a point to ride these in the worst weather Minnesota has to dish out.... Bearings are like new.

These were hub bearings, but as far as headsets are concerned, use of ceramic is more of a weight saving measure for the gram conscious pro racer. As long as King makes headsets that outlast most people's cycling careers I see no reason to plug headsets with ceramics.

Are you saying Chris King are the best headsets? If so, yay. I have one.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Yeah, the best. I've got three, two 5'ish year olds and a sixteen year old. All bearings spin as if new.