Chiappucci - An old man's view

[Wattie]

Just read his comments about today's peloton lacking characters. Does he have a point or is it just the usual old man's nostalgia? Claims that Sagan, Contador and Valverde are the only ones with panache. Sagan and Contador I can understand but Valverde? Valverde is one of the most risk averse riders I can think of; allows others to make the moves, sits in and then wins in small sprints, which is a perfectly good way of winning, but I don't see how it equates to having personality as Chiappucci seems to define it.

Anyway, isn't it a bit rich coming from a man whose panache and exploits in his prime were fuelled by EPO and who had a ludicrously high haematocrit level? Is he saying that cycling was better when you could take drugs to fuel improbable exploits? In any case it seems he is forgetting that he was regularly beaten in his prime by someone who rode like a 'robot', a certain Miguel Indurain.

Seems to me that when people reach a certain age they automatically regard everything today as inferior to their own day. No doubt riders of the Merckx, Gimondi era bemoaned the lack of personality in Chiappucci's generation.

I am 49 by the way and firmly believe that pipes and slippers are not what they used to be.

 

[Eshnar]

Moved to the Clinic, since the topic will inevitably drift there.

 

[Wattie]

Re:

Moved to the Clinic, since the topic will inevitably drift there.

I see your point, but it is also about the process of ageing and nostalgia as well as the drug use.

 

[hrotha]

When people say "at least he's a character", usually they mean "I like douchebags."

Anyway, I disagree strongly with the notion that panache and doping have anything to do with each other.

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

Moved to the Clinic, since the topic will inevitably drift there.

I see your point, but it is also about the process of ageing and nostalgia as well as the drug use.

I know, but in the Clinic you'll be more free to involve doping, since you already did it in the OP

 

[StryderHells]

Got to love Claudio, admitted to EPO usage then retracts it....
Did we really need to hear from him?

 

[Angliru]

Re:

When people say "at least he's a character", usually they mean "I like douchebags."

Anyway, I disagree strongly with the notion that panache and doping have anything to do with each other.

It certainly didn't turn Leipheimer into a must-see performer.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Valverde certainly rides with plenty of panache and style... in the smaller races. He disappears into his shell in the bigger ones.

Anyway, if this is about people being riders whose on-bike exploits are noteworthy then surely Nibali, Roelandts, van Avermaet, Zakarin and Gallopin could be names you could drop. Off-bike, Hrotha's point about "at least he's a character" usually being a synonym for "I like douchebags" applies as well, of course.

 

[Arredondo]

If there's one rider without charisma, it's Valverde. Great rider, but really boring personality.

Sagan is a clown. A nice clown, but there are plenty of riders with a good opinion and charisma.

 

[chuckmicD]

I wonder if Chiappucci uses The Facebook, The Google or The Twitter?

 

[Mr.White]

He picked my three favorite riders, so I agree The man knows..

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Par from excluding Nibali and some others, mostly those who ride in the Flandres Classics, el Diablo isnt wrong in his view. But this is all due to cycling being much more doping free nowadays.

 

[blackcat]

Just read his comments about today's peloton lacking characters. Does he have a point or is it just the usual old man's nostalgia? Claims that Sagan, Contador and Valverde are the only ones with panache. Sagan and Contador I can understand but Valverde? Valverde is one of the most risk averse riders I can think of; allows others to make the moves, sits in and then wins in small sprints, which is a perfectly good way of winning, but I don't see how it equates to having personality as Chiappucci seems to define it.

Anyway, isn't it a bit rich coming from a man whose panache and exploits in his prime were fuelled by EPO and who had a ludicrously high haematocrit level? Is he saying that cycling was better when you could take drugs to fuel improbable exploits? In any case it seems he is forgetting that he was regularly beaten in his prime by someone who rode like a 'robot', a certain Miguel Indurain.

Seems to me that when people reach a certain age they automatically regard everything today as inferior to their own day. No doubt riders of the Merckx, Gimondi era bemoaned the lack of personality in Chiappucci's generation.

I am 49 by the way and firmly believe that pipes and slippers are not what they used to be.

Gerro?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Par from excluding Nibali and some others, mostly those who ride in the Flandres Classics, el Diablo isnt wrong in his view. But this is all due to cycling being much more doping free nowadays.

that was one of the best ever wins by Nibali at France. the way he handled the cobbles, the way he descended, and his attacks on those intermediate bump staages that had decimated most of the peloton and nearly all the domestiques.

froome actually gets an honourable mention for handling the cobbles this july. I think we need to acknowledge that demonstration for what it was, and it was gutsy. now, devil's advocate, if he was merely a general classifcation rider from the 1970s and about 10kgs heavier, he would have always been able to handle the cobbles. he was a mtn bike rider afterall, his major flaw was handling the peloton's shifting amoeba and positioning withing the group when it got tight, like a sprint, ofcourse, he never needs to bump shoulders during the sprints.

so nibali... sagan, what about cancellara and boonen, and even kristoff of this year.

the ride in the 2009 worlds than Evans won, or was it the year before, at Mondrisio in Switzerland, Cancellara just smashed the final decimated field. He was easily the MVP of the race, and probably expended by far the most watts, and put it thru a time per CdA algorithm, and he would have beaten Evans in that measurment. And a guy with a nickname of Spartacus, only beating by Ricco's self-baptised nickname The Cobra.

I think what summed up this year, after Boonen rolls in with the lead group at the Worlds this year, he stopped, gave Sagan a high-5, and you could see the joy over his face for Sagan. Coulda been a bro-hug, I cant remember now, I just remember how Boonen acknowledged the changing of the guard, officially, he saw Sagan as the best of the best in the current peloton, worth his euro5 million from Oleg.

I also like how Sagan does not care about winning from sprints, he attacks, it is about how he wins. He could win more in July if he saved his efforts. But he does not wait, he goes for it. It is how he wins, not how many he wins.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Valverde certainly rides with plenty of panache and style... in the smaller races. He disappears into his shell in the bigger ones.

Anyway, if this is about people being riders whose on-bike exploits are noteworthy then surely Nibali, Roelandts, van Avermaet, Zakarin and Gallopin could be names you could drop. Off-bike, Hrotha's point about "at least he's a character" usually being a synonym for "I like douchebags" applies as well, of course.

that was a phenomenal win in July by Greg Van Avermaet, anyone who can win by attacking and attacking again then hold off Sagan in a two-up* sprint, is alright by me.

 

[Wattie]

Re: Re:

Anyway, if this is about people being riders whose on-bike exploits are noteworthy then surely Nibali, .

I agree regarding Nibali. I thought his ride in the Tour of Spain was superb. Chiappucci would've been proud of how tight he gripped that bottle at such high speed. Oh and his throwing things at a riders who he alleges have caused a crash oozes style and charisma. Add in his claims to have "always been an icon of fair play" and "Been a standard bearer for anti doping" (despite riding for Astana) and I can see that he is pure class.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re: Re:

Anyway, if this is about people being riders whose on-bike exploits are noteworthy then surely Nibali, .

I agree regarding Nibali. I thought his ride in the Tour of Spain was superb. Chiappucci would've been proud of how tight he gripped that bottle at such high speed. Oh and his throwing things at a riders who he alleges have caused a crash oozes style and charisma. Add in his claims to have "always been an icon of fair play" and "Been a standard bearer for anti doping" (despite riding for Astana) and I can see that he is pure class.

I agree. Nicknaming oneself The Universally Acknowledged Global Symbol of the Fight Against Doping is way better than Spartacus or Cobra, no matter what Blackcat says.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Anyway, if this is about people being riders whose on-bike exploits are noteworthy then surely Nibali, .

I agree regarding Nibali. I thought his ride in the Tour of Spain was superb. Chiappucci would've been proud of how tight he gripped that bottle at such high speed. Oh and his throwing things at a riders who he alleges have caused a crash oozes style and charisma. Add in his claims to have "always been an icon of fair play" and "Been a standard bearer for anti doping" (despite riding for Astana) and I can see that he is pure class.

If it's about on-bike aggressive racing and daring to dream, and having character as a rider, Nibali definitely has that. He won Lombardia with panache, he attacked 80k from home in the edition Zaugg won, he gave us the most exciting LBL in recent years when he attacked leading to Iglinsky and Rodríguez chasing and the solo win for the Kazakh, he won his first 2014 Tour stage by racing aggressively to take the lead even before his job was made easy by every other major contender crashing out, he was criticized in 2013 for winning the Giro conservatively so he went and took the field apart on a major MTF in heavy snow in the maglia rosa. He attacked on a descent three climbs from home in the 2011 Giro even though he wasn't feeling it that day, and he and Rodríguez made the 2013 Worlds.

Now, is he a hypocrite, a cheat, somebody who will take liberties with the sticky bottles, and somebody whose public persona is a transparent lie? Sure, but look at the three people Chiapucci singled out. None of them are any better in any way shape or form.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

Anyway, if this is about people being riders whose on-bike exploits are noteworthy then surely Nibali, .

I agree regarding Nibali. I thought his ride in the Tour of Spain was superb. Chiappucci would've been proud of how tight he gripped that bottle at such high speed. Oh and his throwing things at a riders who he alleges have caused a crash oozes style and charisma. Add in his claims to have "always been an icon of fair play" and "Been a standard bearer for anti doping" (despite riding for Astana) and I can see that he is pure class.

Good post.

And what LS and Blackcat said, van Avermaet of course, brilliant panache, Tony Martin, Kwiatkowski, riders with cojones.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Anyway, if this is about people being riders whose on-bike exploits are noteworthy then surely Nibali, .

I agree regarding Nibali. I thought his ride in the Tour of Spain was superb. Chiappucci would've been proud of how tight he gripped that bottle at such high speed. Oh and his throwing things at a riders who he alleges have caused a crash oozes style and charisma. Add in his claims to have "always been an icon of fair play" and "Been a standard bearer for anti doping" (despite riding for Astana) and I can see that he is pure class.

If it's about on-bike aggressive racing and daring to dream, and having character as a rider, Nibali definitely has that. He won Lombardia with panache, he attacked 80k from home in the edition Zaugg won, he gave us the most exciting LBL in recent years when he attacked leading to Iglinsky and Rodríguez chasing and the solo win for the Kazakh, he won his first 2014 Tour stage by racing aggressively to take the lead even before his job was made easy by every other major contender crashing out, he was criticized in 2013 for winning the Giro conservatively so he went and took the field apart on a major MTF in heavy snow in the maglia rosa. He attacked on a descent three climbs from home in the 2011 Giro even though he wasn't feeling it that day, and he and Rodríguez made the 2013 Worlds.

Now, is he a hypocrite, a cheat, somebody who will take liberties with the sticky bottles, and somebody whose public persona is a transparent lie? Sure, but look at the three people Chiapucci singled out. None of them are any better in any way shape or form.

Except for Sagan.

 

[bassano]

Re: Re:

And what LS and Blackcat said, van Avermaet of course, brilliant panache, Tony Martin, Kwiatkowski, riders with cojones.

Tony Martin, what exactly for? Only what he did is a perfect domestique job which more frequently ruined race not make him more interesting
and if you mean some of his pointless moves, you can better name someone like Barta or Chavanel who went to all day attack with small chance to success
And Kwiatkowski is last 3km rider, not so much interesting, better then Dan Martin but no more, only nice move he did was Ponferrada worlds

and if someone making judgements about Nibali sticky bottle, mentioning nothing about what he did really on bike and denying him posibility of anti doping talk (not mention it is offtopic) only because he is in Astana, is not even worth of response, anyway new member of my personal blacklist

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Anyway, if this is about people being riders whose on-bike exploits are noteworthy then surely Nibali, .

I agree regarding Nibali. I thought his ride in the Tour of Spain was superb. Chiappucci would've been proud of how tight he gripped that bottle at such high speed. Oh and his throwing things at a riders who he alleges have caused a crash oozes style and charisma. Add in his claims to have "always been an icon of fair play" and "Been a standard bearer for anti doping" (despite riding for Astana) and I can see that he is pure class.

If it's about on-bike aggressive racing and daring to dream, and having character as a rider, Nibali definitely has that. He won Lombardia with panache, he attacked 80k from home in the edition Zaugg won, he gave us the most exciting LBL in recent years when he attacked leading to Iglinsky and Rodríguez chasing and the solo win for the Kazakh, he won his first 2014 Tour stage by racing aggressively to take the lead even before his job was made easy by every other major contender crashing out, he was criticized in 2013 for winning the Giro conservatively so he went and took the field apart on a major MTF in heavy snow in the maglia rosa. He attacked on a descent three climbs from home in the 2011 Giro even though he wasn't feeling it that day, and he and Rodríguez made the 2013 Worlds.

Now, is he a hypocrite, a cheat, somebody who will take liberties with the sticky bottles, and somebody whose public persona is a transparent lie? Sure, but look at the three people Chiapucci singled out. None of them are any better in any way shape or form.

Except for Sagan.

Disagree. Sagan may not be as bad as Valverde or Contador in the "already has been caught and outed as an obvious doper" stakes, but there's no way Nibali is worse than him in any respect except sprinting. No way. See hrotha's post.

 

[Wattie]

Re: Re:

And what LS and Blackcat said, van Avermaet of course, brilliant panache, Tony Martin, Kwiatkowski, riders with cojones.

Tony Martin, what exactly for? Only what he did is a perfect domestique job which more frequently ruined race not make him more interesting
and if you mean some of his pointless moves, you can better name someone like Barta or Chavanel who went to all day attack with small chance to success
And Kwiatkowski is last 3km rider, not so much interesting, better then Dan Martin but no more, only nice move he did was Ponferrada worlds

and if someone making judgements about Nibali sticky bottle, mentioning nothing about what he did really on bike and denying him posibility of anti doping talk (not mention it is offtopic) only because he is in Astana, is not even worth of response, anyway new member of my personal blacklist

Well here is one person who is proud to be on your blacklist. Love and kisses, Wattie

 

[Escarabajo]

Chiappucci talking about panache. Oh dear.

One of the biggest donkeys in my list!

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I agree regarding Nibali. I thought his ride in the Tour of Spain was superb. Chiappucci would've been proud of how tight he gripped that bottle at such high speed. Oh and his throwing things at a riders who he alleges have caused a crash oozes style and charisma. Add in his claims to have "always been an icon of fair play" and "Been a standard bearer for anti doping" (despite riding for Astana) and I can see that he is pure class.

Tom Steels #ftw