"clean", "suspect", "miraculous" and "mutants"

[hiero2]

Anybody else beside me notice no mention of Sastre???

Just 21 riders covered, right? Had to draw the line somewhere.

 

[Netserk]

Just 21 riders covered, right? Had to draw the line somewhere.

He's the only Tour winner missing since Delgado.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

He's the only Tour winner missing since Delgado.

Delgado went missing at the start of a Tour so no real surprise he missed getting into the magazine.

 

[Netserk]

Delgado went missing at the start of a Tour so no real surprise he missed getting into the magazine.

You should know

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

You should know

Very true Maybe a Delgado avatar is in order...

 

[L'arriviste]

Just 21 riders covered, right? Had to draw the line somewhere.

Why no Sastre: I thought that myself - perhaps they went for Jalabert instead because there was limited time and space and he's French.

Just in case there was some other reason, I've asked one of the authors, so I'll let folks know when I get a reply.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Since tour winners seem to draw the most suspicion, the absence of Sastre and Delgado in particular during the PDM days might have been a good data points to reference. It seems like the authors had some riders in their sights.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Since tour winners seem to draw the most suspicion, the absence of Sastre and Delgado in particular during the PDM days might have been a good data points to reference. It seems like the authors had some riders in their sights.

It certainly would have been interesting to have a few more pre EPO winners 'analysed'.

 

[icefire]

It certainly would have been interesting to have a few more pre EPO winners 'analysed'.

Looks like anything before 1989 (Roche, Delgado) was below 1989. Interesting that 1991 was even lower and the first non-green year was 1994. Don't know what to think.

 

[Netserk]

Looks like anything before 1989 (Roche, Delgado) was below 1989. Interesting that 1991 was even lower and the first non-green year was 1994. Don't know what to think.

So last year was worse than 1993, 1999 & 2006

 

[roundabout]

2006 is Landis, right? Not Pereiro.

 

[Le breton]

It certainly would have been interesting to have a few more pre EPO winners 'analysed'.

But Portoleau started doing his calculations 20 years ago, not 30. Going further back would probably have been difficult.Gathering the relevant info becomes of course harder when go back in time. You also have to remember that L'Equipe is not a stickler for detail, which means that what you read in it in terms of altitude of mountain passes and so on has to be cross-checked.

I don't know when Vayer started working for Festina, but it must not have been much before 1998. I imagine many people would be interested in raiding and destroying his collected data files of racers physiological and stress tests.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

But Portoleau started doing his calculations 20 years ago, not 30. Going further back would probably have been difficult.Gathering the relevant info becomes of course harder when go back in time. You also have to remember that L'Equipe is not a stickler for detail, which means that what you read in it in terms of altitude of mountain passes and so on has to be cross-checked.

I don't know when Vayer started working for Festina, but it must not have been much before 1998. I imagine many people would be interested in raiding and destroying his collected data files of racers physiological and stress tests.

I appreciate it might not be practical or even possible; Just it would be interesting to see how they line up.

 

[icefire]

2006 is Landis, right? Not Pereiro.

Yes, but it looks like they measured him in La Toussuire.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Delgado went missing at the start of a Tour so no real surprise he missed getting into the magazine.

Your safe, Perico wasnt an EPO wonder. Of course he was a shooter but he is nowhere on mutant scale. Even the idiots at PDM couldnt bring him to a Tour win, or was that due to Grazzi at Carrera. Guess we'll never know.

Always liked Perico. PDM shirt did not suit him. Just like Greg.

 

[L'arriviste]

I don't know when Vayer started working for Festina, but it must not have been much before 1998. I imagine many people would be interested in raiding and destroying his collected data files of racers physiological and stress tests.

French Wikipedia says he was at Festina from 1995 to 1998.

 

[Fatclimber]

So last year was worse than 1993, 1999 & 2006

If you're interested in cherry-picking data from a single graph, yes. Also, Lemond's final 2 wins as well as Roche's were 'worse' than that of Landis.

 

[Le breton]

Looks like anything before 1989 (Roche, Delgado) was below 1989. Interesting that 1991 was even lower and the first non-green year was 1994. Don't know what to think.

They say that it was because 91 and 92 didn't have enough relevant hard climbs.
But if you had looked on TV at Alpe d'Huez in 91 - although the stage before AdH wasn't particularly long and hard , with only Ornon as a medium hard climb, you would immediately have seen that something unusual was going on
with Indurain and Bugno climbing in 39:45.
Incredibly Luc Leblanc, who wasn't yet on EPO (until 94 I believe), also did 39:46, just on cortisone presumably. And of course Jeff who led out for a very long time at the bottom, to take a back seat but then speed up again and finished very close He was with banesto then .

Watching that on TV was mind blowing.

Fignon best ever AdH time 40:57
LeMond 41:43.

Bugno 3h 25:48
indurain + 1"
leblanc +2"
Jeff +35"
Rooks + 43"
Chiappucci +43"
Clav. +43"
Delgado+45"
Fignon + 1:12
Mejia +1:13
ampler +1:58
mottet 1:58
Theunisse 1:58
LeMond 1:58
Rué 2:00
Hampsten 2:01

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Your safe, Perico wasnt an EPO wonder.

I never really thought he was. Was always under the impression that it was only in 89/90 that EPO started it rear its head in some form.

 

[jens_attacks]

the time from 1991 is not correct by the way . they started the clock when the helicopter showed the peloton but the climb aready started a while ago

the real time is

1991:13,8 km@8%---40:27---average speed 20.47 km/h(Gianni Bugno)

and yes it's verified by me

 

[jens_attacks]

by the way Le Breton thanks for you Bahamontes 59 Puy de Dome slaughter analysis. that was something i like to read here

about the jet fuelued ascents, in my opinion, it started in1992 where you can find only a handful of riders doing that, in 1993 all the leaders and many others, 1994 almost everyone. that is my opinion of course and i respect the same, the riders pre jet fuel entrance and after

 

[icefire]

by the way Le Breton thanks for you Bahamontes 59 Puy de Dome slaughter analysis. that was something i like to read here

about the jet fuelued ascents, in my opinion, it started in1992 where you can find only a handful of riders doing that, in 1993 all the leaders and many others, 1994 almost everyone. that is my opinion of course and i respect the same, the riders pre jet fuel entrance and after

1992 had two MTF. Sestrieres was surely assisted after 250kms breakaway, but hardly jet fueled. I don't recall AdH, but it was won by Hampsteen. 1992 saw the beginning of jet fueled ITTs, though

 

[Le breton]

by the way Le Breton thanks for you Bahamontes 59 Puy de Dome slaughter analysis. that was something i like to read here

about the jet fuelued ascents, in my opinion, it started in1992 where you can find only a handful of riders doing that, in 1993 all the leaders and many others, 1994 almost everyone. that is my opinion of course and i respect the same, the riders pre jet fuel entrance and after

You forgot Bugno in 1990 (Giro)
I'll interrupt my cooking to go look up my 1991 notes on AdH (if I can find them quickly)
PS : didn't find it, but I remember checking it several times before and I am confident 39:45 is right.

 

[jens_attacks]

You forgot Bugno in 1990 (Giro)

it is only my opinion but i don't think either bugno or il diablo could have kept a secret only for them for two-three years. and not their doc either
maybe it was something but not proper jet fuel


laurent fignon in his book approves me in this matter too...1992 very few...1993 wtf?

check this description from the stage to serre chevalier, of which fignon talks too in the book

"Ce debut d'etape est realise a 37 km/h de moyenne,c'est-a-dire avec pres d'une heure d'avance sur le meilleur horaire"

another age begins...

 

[jens_attacks]

again ,39:45 was correct but it wasn't taken at the start of the climb but only when they showed the peloton. i verified on multiple recordings, not only one. it's 100%