Clenbugate: what's with the plastic?

[TempeteOntheRoad]

Can someone update me on why are we no longer hearing about the plastic markers in Contaddor's blood samples?

Is it a contributing factor?
has been ruled out as "normal" (man, in what world are we?)
Was it forgotten altogether?

Any opinion?

tkx.

 

[moi123]

Can someone update me on why are we no longer hearing about the plastic markers in Contaddor's blood samples?

Is it a contributing factor?
has been ruled out as "normal" (man, in what world are we?)
Was it forgotten altogether?

Any opinion?

tkx.

As fas as I know, the plasticizers thing was just a rumour started by a magazine.

Believe me, if there was even the slightest bit of evidence regarding that, they would have jumped on him.

 

[therealtimshady]

just a rumour probably not true. i genuinly believe contador has no idea how the clen got into his system and made up the meat story. i dont think he would be stupid enough to blood dope considering as race favourite he would be tested alot but WADA will have no sympathy and will force a 2 year ban whatever the outcome

 

[Cobblestones]

I think it's real, not just a rumor. Point is, to have plasticizer in your blood isn't forbidden.

Now we all think that the plasticizer came from a 'refill'. Problem is, apparently, in the legal world, it's not sufficient evidence for blood doping (hence it is not part of any legal proceedings and we don't hear about it any more).

 

[Anonymous]

I think the plasticiser is genuine.
The problem is the test isnt approved yet.

cant enforce something for which their is no approved test,

 

[eleven]

I think the plasticiser is genuine.
The problem is the test isnt approved yet.

cant enforce something for which their is no approved test,

That's my understanding as well. I wonder if the presence of the plasticizers caused those investigating to look more critically at the tainted meat claims etc...In other words, while he can't be banned for plasticizers did their presence make a ban for Clen more likely?

 

[hrotha]

Wasn't the test validated recently? And in that case, shouldn't they be retesting Contador's samples (and everyone else's, too) anyway?

Of course, "they" being the UCI this means it'll be the 2008 Giro all over again.

 

[la.margna]

test all samples waiting somewhere in a WADA or UCI freezer from any winners over the last couple of years for plasticizers and you can REWRITE THE ENTIRE CYCLING AND SPORTS HISTORY AND WINNER LISTS...

a major desaster, don't think the will go for it...

 

[Merckx index]

Howman is on the record as saying the DEHP results can be used. If Bert indeed gets one year, and WADA challenges the decision, I assume that will be part of their case for a longer suspension. But they might very well decide that one year is good enough in this case and let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Nearly]

I think it's real, not just a rumor. Point is, to have plasticizer in your blood isn't forbidden.

Now we all think that the plasticizer came from a 'refill'. Problem is, apparently, in the legal world, it's not sufficient evidence for blood doping (hence it is not part of any legal proceedings and we don't hear about it any more).

Having some or any level of plasticizer in the body is not a brach of the rules so why is a test for it going to assist with proving any doping offence especially retrospective ones (other than in the clinic). The mountains are full of goats that chew on plastic bottles and bags

It may be a pointer but absent cogent evidence of an actual breach it is not proof of anything.

 

[dbrower]

Howman is on the record as saying the DEHP results can be used. If Bert indeed gets one year, and WADA challenges the decision, I assume that will be part of their case for a longer suspension. But they might very well decide that one year is good enough in this case and let sleeping dogs lie.

I think that is the gist of Bert's position that the one year sanction is a
"proposal". I bet if it's agreed and timed to let him ride the Vuelta, he won't make a stink and cause an expensive appeal. That may suit the parties better than a replay of Landis.

-dB

 

[warmfuzzies]

Agree 1-year suspension is the first (and lowest) bid in several rounds of negotiating. But with plasticizers in his blood, UCI/WADA will push for a 2-year clen-poz suspension with pre-agreed acceptance from Contador in exchange for letting the platisizers slide. Aggressive sanctioning would push for 4-years; 2 for the clen, 2 for the plasticizers. 2-years and no further fuss sounds like fair market value.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Agree 1-year suspension is the first (and lowest) bid in several rounds of negotiating. But with plasticizers in his blood, UCI/WADA will push for a 2-year clen-poz suspension with pre-agreed acceptance from Contador in exchange for letting the platisizers slide. Aggressive sanctioning would push for 4-years; 2 for the clen, 2 for the plasticizers. 2-years and no further fuss sounds like fair market value.

The plasticizers are irrelevant. That's not even a sanctioned test yet.

 

[Blakeslee]

I think the situation with the plasticizers test is likely to be similar to what happened with the blood doping test in the Tyler Hamilton case. Both were cases where the science behind the testing method had been shown to be valid, but the test had not been used within a sporting context. The reason the test is not being used as part of the Contador case is that they have not yet determined what level of plasticizers would trigger a positive test.

What bothers me about this in the Contador case is that if the information in the article turns out to be correct it sounds like the levels of plasticizers in Contador's test were far above anything they are reasonably considering for the level that would trigger a positive test. Hopefully eventually this will turn out like the Hamilton case where even though the test hasn't been improved yet the results can still be used as part of the case against Contador.

 

[ingsve]

test all samples waiting somewhere in a WADA or UCI freezer from any winners over the last couple of years for plasticizers and you can REWRITE THE ENTIRE CYCLING AND SPORTS HISTORY AND WINNER LISTS...

a major desaster, don't think the will go for it...

Imagine that they test all their stored samples for plasticizers and find that 90% of riders fail the test. That surely must mean that the test is flawed .

 

[alpine_chav]

The problem with the plasticizers in the blood is that we all have them because of the amount of plastic used in everyday products such as bottles, packaging etc. Not only do they have to show that the plasticizers are in the bloodstream but then they also have to prove the origin of said plasticizers which is currently near on impossible. Regardless of the test results it is unlikely that the evidence will stand up in a court of law.

 

[eleven]

The problem with the plasticizers in the blood is that we all have them because of the amount of plastic used in everyday products such as bottles, packaging etc. Not only do they have to show that the plasticizers are in the bloodstream but then they also have to prove the origin of said plasticizers which is currently near on impossible. Regardless of the test results it is unlikely that the evidence will stand up in a court of law.

It's my understanding, limited as that may be, that the plasticizers present directly from a blood transfusion are both much more highly concentrated in the blood and a somewhat unique chemical makeup. Or, at least, that is how I understood the original claims.

 

[ingsve]

The problem with the plasticizers in the blood is that we all have them because of the amount of plastic used in everyday products such as bottles, packaging etc. Not only do they have to show that the plasticizers are in the bloodstream but then they also have to prove the origin of said plasticizers which is currently near on impossible. Regardless of the test results it is unlikely that the evidence will stand up in a court of law.

I think the point is that as far as we know right now transfusion is the only identified source of extreme levels of plasticizers. Yes, we all have a certain background level of plasticizers but that level is fairly even among everyone and a positive test would not only look for presence of plasticizers but abnormal amounts of it.

 

[alpine_chav]

Truth about the concentration level of plasticizers in the blood but as far as unique chemical makeup I'm not sure... the plasticizer is a metabolite produced by the body naturally.

Regardless of concentration levels they would still have to prove the source of the plasticizers. Turns out Alberto likes melted plastic on his steak

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

The plasticizers are irrelevant. That's not even a sanctioned test yet.

but it would be if it were lance..........no?

btw............how are you "getting on" since Lance hasn't been arrested yet?

wasn't this supposed to happen months ago?

roflmao

 

[ingsve]

Truth about the concentration level of plasticizers in the blood but as far as unique chemical makeup I'm not sure... the plasticizer is a metabolite produced by the body naturally.

Regardless of concentration levels they would still have to prove the source of the plasticizers. Turns out Alberto likes melted plastic on his steak

Well, there is more than one type of phthalate so what they are interested in are the metaboliets from the specific phthalates used in blood bags. Eventhough there may be phthalates in a lot of containers etc you can very often exclude any source with the wrong type of phthalate. That leaves only other sources of the same phthalate and that makes it much more likely that abnormal amounts does indeed come from blood bags.