Confused

[kkbrown52]

I just don't get it. How can anyone even begin to credit Landis with speaking the truth? I originally felt that he was innocent. Now, we all know he wasn't. He has lied numerous times under oath that he was innocent.He wrote a book, took people's money while knowing that he was totally lying and betraying fans. He TOOK people's money for his defense KNOWING that he was lying all the time. HE TOOK PEOPLE"S MONEY for god's sake!! Forget, who he has named for just a minute. I want to know how ANYONE can have any sympathy or support for a person that has so totally betrayed, doped, blackmailed, cheated, lied (including under oath), and embezzeled? I want to know what kind of action is going to be taken against Landis for the embezzelment, lying under oath, blackmail, fraud and doping. I understand that the proper organizations must investigate the allegations but for anyone to actually state and support Landis in this cannot be much better and apparently supports breaking laws and trying very hard to destroy other people's lives and the sport. This has got to be the all time lowest point in cycling which is being flamed by the media.

 

[redtreviso]

I just don't get it. How can anyone even begin to credit Landis with speaking the truth? I originally felt that he was innocent. Now, we all know he wasn't. He has lied numerous times under oath that he was innocent.He wrote a book, took people's money while knowing that he was totally lying and betraying fans. He TOOK people's money for his defense KNOWING that he was lying all the time. HE TOOK PEOPLE"S MONEY for god's sake!! Forget, who he has named for just a minute. I want to know how ANYONE can have any sympathy or support for a person that has so totally betrayed, doped, blackmailed, cheated, lied (including under oath), and embezzeled? I want to know what kind of action is going to be taken against Landis for the embezzelment, lying under oath, blackmail, fraud and doping. I understand that the proper organizations must investigate the allegations but for anyone to actually state and support Landis in this cannot be much better and apparently supports breaking laws and trying very hard to destroy other people's lives and the sport. This has got to be the all time lowest point in cycling which is being flamed by the media.

You forgot the word credibility...and loves cancer

 

[Ferminal]

I just don't get it. How can anyone even begin to credit Landis with speaking the truth? I originally felt that he was innocent. Now, we all know he wasn't. He has lied numerous times under oath that he was innocent.He wrote a book, took people's money while knowing that he was totally lying and betraying fans. He TOOK people's money for his defense KNOWING that he was lying all the time. HE TOOK PEOPLE"S MONEY for god's sake!! Forget, who he has named for just a minute. I want to know how ANYONE can have any sympathy or support for a person that has so totally betrayed, doped, blackmailed, cheated, lied (including under oath), and embezzeled? I want to know what kind of action is going to be taken against Landis for the embezzelment, lying under oath, blackmail, fraud and doping. I understand that the proper organizations must investigate the allegations but for anyone to actually state and support Landis in this cannot be much better and apparently supports breaking laws and trying very hard to destroy other people's lives and the sport. This has got to be the all time lowest point in cycling which is being flamed by the media.

It's not like he introduced anything new, just clarified and gave more specific details on some of the happenings in the first half of the decade.

If last week was the first time you considered systematic doping at Phonak and Postal, there's a long road for you ahead.

 

[bobbins]

Read up on it all before you judge as you obviously haven't thus far.

 

[thingswelike]

There's plenty of discussions and posts like this in the big thread.
But basically I feel that the credibility of Landis is secondary to the credibility of the information he's giving. For me, a lot of what he's saying ties in with many suspicions and other documents and articles.
He could very well get money out of this. But he'll also go through some very tough times.

Put yourself in his position - he was accused of doping, but couldn't break omerta without getting a huge backlash or at the very least having to retire immediately (see Kohl). He saw the positive test as an injustice so fought it - after all he'd seen his peers successfully (allegedly) get away with positives before.
So he kept quiet about everyone else's doping practices thinking that at the very least some of his peers would look after him when he started cycling again (see stories of Lance's fellow dopers being given jobs/positions/roles).

When Landis eventually got back into cycling, he found he couldn't break through into major races and that he didn't have many friends after all. Eventually he decided that silence wasn't really giving him anything.

That's the way I can justify it to myself anyway.

You've got to understand - this isn't (on the whole) new information to us. He's just confirming what we already believed (some based on fact, some based on logic).

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I just don't get it. How can anyone even begin to credit Landis with speaking the truth? I originally felt that he was innocent. Now, we all know he wasn't. He has lied numerous times under oath that he was innocent.He wrote a book, took people's money while knowing that he was totally lying and betraying fans. He TOOK people's money for his defense KNOWING that he was lying all the time. HE TOOK PEOPLE"S MONEY for god's sake!! Forget, who he has named for just a minute. I want to know how ANYONE can have any sympathy or support for a person that has so totally betrayed, doped, blackmailed, cheated, lied (including under oath), and embezzeled? I want to know what kind of action is going to be taken against Landis for the embezzelment, lying under oath, blackmail, fraud and doping. I understand that the proper organizations must investigate the allegations but for anyone to actually state and support Landis in this cannot be much better and apparently supports breaking laws and trying very hard to destroy other people's lives and the sport. This has got to be the all time lowest point in cycling which is being flamed by the media.

In conclusion - you appear to be upset that he didn't keep on lying.

 

[LargusMeans]

For a start, read these.

Here's the Morkeberg story....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...levels-debated

Read that, then follow it with this....

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cyclin...ory?id=5222488

then this to finish off with....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/biological-passport-expert-taking-landis-seriously

If that doesnt paint a picture in your mind of last seasons 3rd place tour de france rider, you have the Lance goggles on waaaaayyy to tight.

 

[Vanspringel]

Hey don't you ever watch cop/spy movies? They always try to get the bad guys to dob on other bad guys. Their information is still valid.

Of course Landis is a cheat and liar and a fraud. Doesn't mean what he says about others isn't true. It still has to be investigated.

 

[thingswelike]

They always try to get the bad guys to dob on other bad guys.

It's a good job I watched Neighbours and Home & Away when I was younger otherwise I wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about

 

[Benotti69]

Landis's crdeibility is so low that everyone has laughed and ignored what he said?....

No, now the Feds are investigating, UCI made a complete u-turn after calling him 'nuts' (My word) and we have blood passports committee guy(Ashenden) taking this seriously, NYTimes reporting it, SI reporting it....we can go on and on..

Credibility shot, yes but he has spoken and a lot of people have taken it seriously......i think that screams more than, LA happy 'where we stand'....

 

[Polish]

I just don't get it. How can anyone even begin to credit Landis with speaking the truth? I originally felt that he was innocent. Now, we all know he wasn't. He has lied numerous times under oath that he was innocent.He wrote a book, took people's money while knowing that he was totally lying and betraying fans. He TOOK people's money for his defense KNOWING that he was lying all the time. HE TOOK PEOPLE"S MONEY for god's sake!! Forget, who he has named for just a minute. I want to know how ANYONE can have any sympathy or support for a person that has so totally betrayed, doped, blackmailed, cheated, lied (including under oath), and embezzeled? I want to know what kind of action is going to be taken against Landis for the embezzelment, lying under oath, blackmail, fraud and doping. I understand that the proper organizations must investigate the allegations but for anyone to actually state and support Landis in this cannot be much better and apparently supports breaking laws and trying very hard to destroy other people's lives and the sport. This has got to be the all time lowest point in cycling which is being flamed by the media.

I have to agree with you kk. I used to be a Fan of Floyd, but no longer

This piece written by John Leicester, an international sports columnist for The Associated Press, sums it up well. Thanks for the link race Radio.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYW0FHZ4JJOYR-TCk5f8LN5prOGQD9FUPHRG0

I was one of those who used to mock the French Lab along with other Floyd fans. I would like to offer my own little apology to the lab. They were not trying to "Frame Floyd". In hindsight it is clear to see that Framing Lance is the Lab's true mission.

But please keep in mind kk - Lance probably DID encourage his team mates to dope.
How else could they possibly keep up??

IF there are any eye witness "accounts" by Floyd or other mates actually claiming to SEE Lance sticking a needle in his arm or wherever, realize it was harmless saline or iron shots. Lance just wanted to fool his mates into feeling less guilty.

 

[Polish]

In conclusion - you appear to be upset that he didn't keep on lying.

He still IS lying. You actually believe Floyd has stopped lying?
I doubt that you do believe that. Maybe you do....
And you can distinquish between His Lies and The Truth.

Floyd doped heavily at Phonak and Team OUCH.
Is he still doping at his current team?
Would he be lying if he said he is now clean?

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I just don't get it. How can anyone even begin to credit Landis with speaking the truth? I originally felt that he was innocent.

Sorry about your luck on that one, perhaps you won't be as gullable next time.

Now, we all know he wasn't. He has lied numerous times under oath that he was innocent.He wrote a book, took people's money while knowing that he was totally lying and betraying fans. He TOOK people's money for his defense KNOWING that he was lying all the time. HE TOOK PEOPLE"S MONEY for god's sake!!

Well, fools and their money are easily parted.

Forget, who he has named for just a minute. I want to know how ANYONE can have any sympathy or support for a person that has so totally betrayed, doped, blackmailed, cheated, lied (including under oath), and embezzeled? I want to know what kind of action is going to be taken against Landis for the embezzelment, lying under oath, blackmail, fraud and doping. I understand that the proper organizations must investigate the allegations but for anyone to actually state and support Landis in this cannot be much better and apparently supports breaking laws and trying very hard to destroy other people's lives and the sport. This has got to be the all time lowest point in cycling which is being flamed by the media.

I don't think the authorities are going to forget that Landis has admitted and let him walk without penalty. In determining his punishment, I think they'll weigh his admissions against the outcomes arrived at from the info and whatever evidence he's provided or will provide.

 

[kkbrown52]

Once again...it keeps going back to the people being accused as validation that what Landis says is the truth. So, I am to assume that all else doesn't matter and that Landis is telling the truth as long as the name Armstrong is involved. Come on people! Forget your hatred for Armstrong or whatever it is that is making you ignore the simple facts that your supporting a liar, a cheat, a doper, a criminal and a mentally impaired man who has taken it upon himself to not only harm the sport but he has most likely destryoed his parents life to include others. The people that financially supported him believing that he was telling us the truth will have a different angle on this revelation and I hope some of them can at least go after him for embezzelment. And, why now did Landis come out with all this knowledge for "the good of the sport" instead of the truth that he should have spoken at the begininng before he spent millions of other people's money defending his lies, got revenue from a book of lies, and broke the law? He's coming "out" because he's out of money, he needs attention and he's a very sick man.
I do hope that if there is any credence to anything Landis has stated, that it is discovered and appropriate action is taken against whoever. But, until then this tearing down of our sport because of hatred of individuals has got to stop. Let the proper originzations do their job without all this unfounded drama being dragged into the public eye by the media and "fans". Let's get back to enjoying this wonderful sport and stop giving any attention to this crap until their is proven truth to any of it.

 

[Anonymous]

then this tearing down of our sport because of hatred of individuals has got to stop.

Sometimes to rebuild something bigger and stronger you have to knock it down first.

Cycling will never be free of doping, but removing Lance, Bruyneel and the current UCI heads will make it a much much cleaner place, and maybe it will have a chance.

 

[BikeCentric]

Hey don't you ever watch cop/spy movies? They always try to get the bad guys to dob on other bad guys. Their information is still valid.

Of course Landis is a cheat and liar and a fraud. Doesn't mean what he says about others isn't true. It still has to be investigated.

Well said.

 

[RTMcFadden]

Sometimes to rebuild something bigger and stronger you have to knock it down first.

Cycling will never be free of doping, but removing Lance, Bruyneel and the current UCI heads will make it a much much cleaner place, and maybe it will have a chance.

More importantly, if you don't remove them, you don't stand a snowballs chance of every changing anything.

 

[red_flanders]

I was one of those who used to mock the French Lab along with other Floyd fans. I would like to offer my own little apology to the lab. They were not trying to "Frame Floyd". In hindsight it is clear to see that Framing Lance is the Lab's true mission.

A moment of clarity...then...

...back into entrenched denial and stupidity.

 

[BikeCentric]

Once again...it keeps going back to the people being accused as validation that what Landis says is the truth. So, I am to assume that all else doesn't matter and that Landis is telling the truth as long as the name Armstrong is involved. Come on people! Forget your hatred for Armstrong or whatever it is that is making you ignore the simple facts that your supporting a liar, a cheat, a doper, a criminal and a mentally impaired man who has taken it upon himself to not only harm the sport but he has most likely destryoed his parents life to include others. The people that financially supported him believing that he was telling us the truth will have a different angle on this revelation and I hope some of them can at least go after him for embezzelment. And, why now did Landis come out with all this knowledge for "the good of the sport" instead of the truth that he should have spoken at the begininng before he spent millions of other people's money defending his lies, got revenue from a book of lies, and broke the law? He's coming "out" because he's out of money, he needs attention and he's a very sick man.
I do hope that if there is any credence to anything Landis has stated, that it is discovered and appropriate action is taken against whoever. But, until then this tearing down of our sport because of hatred of individuals has got to stop. Let the proper originzations do their job without all this unfounded drama being dragged into the public eye by the media and "fans". Let's get back to enjoying this wonderful sport and stop giving any attention to this crap until their is proven truth to any of it.

What's "tearing down the sport" is doping, not exposing the scourge that doping is. Unless you are a sociopath that lacks basic human empathy you cannot simply go back to "enjoying this wonderful sport" while being aware that the riders are forced to shoot themselves full of drugs for your enjoyment.

Do some basic research before you spout your opinions - doping has been a problem in this sport for a long time and if you are aware of the history you would see that Landis' allegations are very credible because they mesh with the accounts of many other whistleblowers.

Also, the "proper organizations" are completely corrupt so we cannot simply rely on them to take care of this. Unless you mean the US Federal Government investigation; they may actually bring about some change.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I find it very entertaining that every word the deluded fanboys (by the way I think we should refer to them from now on as TDF, oh wow look it's the same as Tour de France, the only important bike race in the world). But I digress. Every word that TDFs use to discredit Flandis can be applied equally to Lance.
Took peoples money under false pretenses. Check.
Lied under oath. Check.
He wrote a book, took people's money while knowing that he was totally lying and betraying fans. Check.
........ a person that has so totally betrayed, doped, blackmailed, cheated, lied (including under oath), and embezzeled.......Check, check and double check.

Forget your love for Armstrong or whatever it is that is making you ignore the simple facts that your (you're) supporting a liar, a cheat, a doper, a criminal and a mentally impaired man who has taken it upon himself to not only harm the sport but he has most likely destryoed (sp) his parents life to include others. The people that financially supported him believing that he was telling us the truth will have a different angle on this revelation and I hope some of them can at least go after him for embezzelment. I think they will, to the tune of about 7.5 million.

No, Floyd is telling the truth now because the "proper pro cyclist" approach of deny, go to court, lie, serve suspension, come back and start all over, was just not working for him. Something, maybe his menonite upbringing wouldn't let him go back to doing what he needed to do to race at the elite pro level (that would be doping, for all you TDF) and his concience ate at him until it had to come out. Obviously there were other reasons as well, such as being dead broke and abandoned by everyone that you had thought were your friends.

 

[ludwig]

Once again...it keeps going back to the people being accused as validation that what Landis says is the truth. So, I am to assume that all else doesn't matter and that Landis is telling the truth as long as the name Armstrong is involved. Come on people! Forget your hatred for Armstrong or whatever it is that is making you ignore the simple facts that your supporting a liar, a cheat, a doper, a criminal and a mentally impaired man who has taken it upon himself to not only harm the sport but he has most likely destryoed his parents life to include others. The people that financially supported him believing that he was telling us the truth will have a different angle on this revelation and I hope some of them can at least go after him for embezzelment. And, why now did Landis come out with all this knowledge for "the good of the sport" instead of the truth that he should have spoken at the begininng before he spent millions of other people's money defending his lies, got revenue from a book of lies, and broke the law? He's coming "out" because he's out of money, he needs attention and he's a very sick man.
I do hope that if there is any credence to anything Landis has stated, that it is discovered and appropriate action is taken against whoever. But, until then this tearing down of our sport because of hatred of individuals has got to stop. Let the proper originzations do their job without all this unfounded drama being dragged into the public eye by the media and "fans". Let's get back to enjoying this wonderful sport and stop giving any attention to this crap until their is proven truth to any of it.

I don't see anything personal in Landis' actions. Obviously he feels betrayed by certain individuals, but the confessions themselves are not aimed at any particular person.

As for the people who bought into the story pre-confession....most of those people didn't know much or anything about cycling. Either way it's a red herring to use Landis' past lies to discredit his current statements as they weren't anything new and don't have any effect on the credibility of his current statements.

"Proper organizations"? What more evidence do you need that they are corrupt up to the eyeballs?

 

[scribe]

In conclusion - you appear to be upset that he didn't keep on lying.

Let me know how/when he stopped lying.

 

[Hairy Wheels]

Somebody on this thread stated that Landis was "heavily doped" on OUCH. Are you drunk? Have you seen his results? The only doping he was doing was the stuff you find in a brown long neck bottle. Honestly...if Landis was doped again and riding seriously he would win everything in the US...kinda like Horner used to. Wait a minute..........

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Let me know how/when he stopped lying.

Nice strawman - I was responding to the OP that he appears upset that Floyd lied to 'them' and that they believed in them. The OP would appear to be happier that Floyd continue that deceit so as not to hurt their feelings.

To answer your question - if you had asked me last week:
Did Floyd dope in 2006? . .... I would have said "yes".
Does Lance dope? ........... I would have said "yes".
Do I think JB runs a full doping programme.... I would have said "yes".
Are the UCI corrupt...... I would have said "yes".

Floyd is merely confirming what I knew - and indeed what I said to you in the middle of last year.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Once again...it keeps going back to the people being accused as validation that what Landis says is the truth. So, I am to assume that all else doesn't matter and that Landis is telling the truth as long as the name Armstrong is involved.

No.

Come on people! Forget your hatred for Armstrong or whatever it is that is making you ignore the simple facts that your supporting a liar, a cheat, a doper, a criminal and a mentally impaired man who has taken it upon himself to not only harm the sport but he has most likely destryoed his parents life to include others.

I don't think many are ignoring what Floyd's done, it's just overshadowed by happiness that he's shared some juicy insider information.

The people that financially supported him believing that he was telling us the truth will have a different angle on this revelation and I hope some of them can at least go after him for embezzelment.

I hope he gets all the punishment the law will allow.

And, why now did Landis come out with all this knowledge for "the good of the sport" instead of the truth that he should have spoken at the begininng before he spent millions of other people's money defending his lies, got revenue from a book of lies, and broke the law? He's coming "out" because he's out of money, he needs attention and he's a very sick man.

He's out of options. The "family" can't or won't protect him and welcome him back with open arms anymore, so, why keep silent if you can no longer be rewarded for silence?

I do hope that if there is any credence to anything Landis has stated, that it is discovered and appropriate action is taken against whoever. But, until then this tearing down of our sport because of hatred of individuals has got to stop. Let the proper originzations do their job without all this unfounded drama being dragged into the public eye by the media and "fans". Let's get back to enjoying this wonderful sport and stop giving any attention to this crap until their is proven truth to any of it.

I'm a bit torn. As much as I'd like to have seen this done without the public spotlight, I think the high visibility of the case will force the proper organizations to take the case more seriously... and hey, if you're innocent, you should have nothing to hide.