Conta shuts da door

I doubt Contador is clean based on his alleged links to the Operation Puerto case and high level of consistent performances. I'd day his Giro win last year was particularly suspicious if you can believe that he didn't prepare properly beforehand. I don't think a clean rider could realistically match known dopers like Ricco, especially without proper preparation.
 
It's widely discussed, and believed in this forum that the vast majority of riders in the top 50 or so of the peloton are doped to one degree or another, and have been for years.

Beyond that we spend a lot of time splitting hairs.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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From Fuentes' documents seized in the Puerto case:

En el documento 3 se observan marcados de distinta forma los nombres de los corredores: Dariuz BARANOWSKY; Josefa BELOKI; Ginpaolo CARUSO; Alberto CONTADOR; Allan DAVIS; David ETXEBARRÍA; Igor GONZÁLEZ DE GALDEANO; Roberto HERAS; Jorg JAKSCHE; Isidro NOZAL; Sergio PAULINHO; Nuno RIBEIRO; Luis León SÁNCHEZ; Michele SCARPONI; Marcos SERRANO y Ángel VICIOSO.


En el reverso del documento 31 se localizan unas anotaciones manuscritas con el título “INDIVIDUALIZACIÓN” en el que se identifican a distintos corredores del equipo LIBERTY-SEGUROS WÜRTH por sus iniciales: R. H. (Roberto HERAS), M. S. (Marcos SERRANO), J. B. (Joseba BELOKI), I. G. (Igor GONZÁLEZ), A. V. (Ángel VICIOSO), J. J. (Jorg JAKSCHE), A. D. (Alan DAVIS), L. (sin identificar), A. C. (Alberto CONTADOR) .
Also, see Jaksche's comments that at the time he spent at Liberty, everyone doped, even the under-23 team.
 
May 13, 2009
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I don't think he is clean. But heck, at this level who is really clean anyway? AC is linked to Fuentes, LA to Ferrari..Kloden to Fuentes...who cares? Let them race.

this has been discussed time after time...:cool:
 
Jul 19, 2009
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"who cares? Let them race"

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I hate this attitude. The best rider of this generation may be the guy in 26th place at the tour that has chosen to ride clean.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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^^

And that fact one, not all riders respond the same t dope and two, that not all medical programs are created equal.
 
Jul 19, 2009
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Interestingly, Contador was asked to provide a DNA sample in order to definitively prove his innocence at the time of the operacion puerto scandal, but he refused.

Allan Davis on the other hand, actually requested to have a DNA sample taken and cross checked against the blood bags held as evidence.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Krebs cycle said:
Interestingly, Contador was asked to provide a DNA sample in order to definitively prove his innocence at the time of the operacion puerto scandal, but he refused.

Allan Davis on the other hand, actually requested to have a DNA sample taken and cross checked against the blood bags held as evidence.
I had heard the same. You know, I have a very uneasy feeling about Contador. He is widely called the best climber in the world (check out the VAM he set - he broke Bjarne's old record from 1996), he is very quick in the TT (even the flat ones), he can accelerate like no one's business, he can recover with the best, he can win grand tours without peaking or even when on vacation. Hopefully I don't get too many nasty replies, as it is not like I "hate" the guy, he just gives me the same feeling I had when I saw Bjarne attack in '96, or Rasmusen, or Pantani/Heras in a TT, or Ricco from last year ...
 
Jun 13, 2009
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Izoard said:
I had heard the same. You know, I have a very uneasy feeling about Contador. He is widely called the best climber in the world (check out the VAM he set - he broke Bjarne's old record from 1996), he is very quick in the TT (even the flat ones), he can accelerate like no one's business, he can recover with the best, he can win grand tours without peaking or even when on vacation. Hopefully I don't get too many nasty replies, as it is not like I "hate" the guy, he just gives me the same feeling I had when I saw Bjarne attack in '96, or Rasmusen, or Pantani/Heras in a TT, or Ricco from last year ...
Yep. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, chances are its a duck.
 
Jul 16, 2009
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titotito said:
"who cares? Let them race"

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I hate this attitude. The best rider of this generation may be the guy in 26th place at the tour that has chosen to ride clean.

Tito you may be right

Unfortunately the public have shown what they want. Machines powering up a hill past everyone else to win the TDF

I’m with the who cares side- under no illusion most must to complete the tour
Those in it are still getting well paid, even #26.

My bigger concern is for their long term health, it must be causing damage. But then few are dropping dead and they aren’t doing sit down protests at the start of a day

This is little more than pole dancing on 2 wheels. We know the girls are fake, but really, it looks good and turns us on. those in power know 90% of the fans can’t even remember who got busted last year or last week. The show will go on, and as long as they have the girls and the boys on the dias at the end of each stage mission is accomplished

Hence I enjoy it, but don’t kid myself who’se clean or not

DNA them now and every year and do retrospective tests IF they want to find out who was dirty. But do we really want to know who was dirty 10 years ago?

Does the sport really want to know that LA, and Greg LeMond and Bernaud Hinault (sp) were juiced, when it just meant they were using better and less detectable stuff than their competitors at the time

The TDF is not a level playing field. It is 3 weeks of sponsor sold air time.
I’m sure the cyclists know that

My major disappointment is just how boring it has been this year. Although last night was entertaining

in 20 years they might have a break off competition of mountain stage time trails around the world. like how Cricket has evolved into 20/20. Now I'd really like that
 
Apr 1, 2009
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PACONi said:
Yep. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, chances are its a duck.
Also worth looking at his two DSs.
Manolo Saiz - now disgraced, systematic doping at his teams.
Johan Bruyneel - Spent most of his cycling career under Manolo Saiz at ONCE.

As has been said by others, if something appears too good to be true, it probably is.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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patswana said:
Also worth looking at his two DSs.
Manolo Saiz - now disgraced, systematic doping at his teams.
Johan Bruyneel - Spent most of his cycling career under Manolo Siaz at ONCE.

As has been said by others, if something appears too good to be true, it probably is.
Hey, don't diss JB. The only reason everyone on Astana can TT so well is due to Optygen and good training :rolleyes:
 
Jun 13, 2009
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patswana said:
Also worth looking at his two DSs.
Manolo Saiz - now disgraced, systematic doping at his teams.
Johan Bruyneel - Spent most of his cycling career under Manolo Siaz at ONCE.

As has been said by others, if something appears too good to be true, it probably is.
Saiz is only in disgrace because he got caught.

JB is a genius, just ask Phil & Paul........... /sarcasm.

Seriously, I don't like to go down the 'guilt by association' path, but when you've history like AC does (or so many others, ie Kloden, LA, etc) its hard not to be skeptical of their results.
Also when a rider refuses to have his dna tested against the OP bags, you've got to wonder. If I was clean, but implicated, I'd be getting tested ASAP, or at least trying to like Alby Davis. No easier way to clear you name than a dna comparison!
 
May 26, 2009
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I just hope the last stage means the end of all those conspiracy theories from the Contador fans about how Lance and Johan would hide his blood bags.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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I can't stand that "Billy the Kid" celebration thing he does. The pistol shot! And he wouldn't stop doing it. Didn't we use to do that as kids playing cops and robbers, cowboys and indians?? Now if he pulled out a real pistol even a good looking fake from his back pocket and did it, now that would be cool.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Indurain said:
I can't stand that "Billy the Kid" celebration thing he does. The pistol shot! And he wouldn't stop doing it. Didn't we use to do that as kids playing cops and robbers, cowboys and indians??
Totally agree. He looks like a complete wang kerr.
 
Indurain said:
I can't stand that "Billy the Kid" celebration thing he does. The pistol shot! And he wouldn't stop doing it. Didn't we use to do that as kids playing cops and robbers, cowboys and indians?? Now if he pulled out a real pistol even a good looking fake from his back pocket and did it, now that would be cool.

Give him a break, he doesn't seem very intelligent! :p
 
Mar 10, 2009
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indurain666 said:
I don't think he is clean. But heck, at this level who is really clean anyway? AC is linked to Fuentes, LA to Ferrari..Kloden to Fuentes...who cares? Let them race.

this has been discussed time after time...:cool:
Yeah, enough already.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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So we are in Stage 17, a select group of "pure" climbers is riding along and they all look they are suffering, pushing the pace ... except AC. He looks like, to quote P&P, "he is on a Sunday ride in the park". Ya right.
 
May 7, 2009
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Indurain said:
I can't stand that "Billy the Kid" celebration thing he does. The pistol shot! And he wouldn't stop doing it..
+100. You can be the best, but don't have to be a *(&$# about it.
That salute is cocky, arrogant, & obnoxious
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Thanks for bumping this Willy! Gee, he has improved his flat TT (aerodynamics and increased power output) but not done any damage to his climbing ability.
 

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