Contador - team radio - Time Trial

[Biffins]

Contador said after the race that he suffered in the time trial like he has never suffered before in any race in his life.

He also stated that he was told over team radio during the first third that Schleck had actually gone ahead (when in fact closest Schleck came to was 2 seconds behind) and consistently downplayed his lead in the time they were reporting to him.

He said what his team had done to him with the information on the team radio was "cruel" (his words).

QUESTIONS

Is it common for teams to misreport time advantages/disadvantages on team radio in order to either comfort them (pad up the number) or encourage them to try harder (downplay them). I had always assumed for some reason the team radios were reporting as accurately as possible and the riders took the tactical decisions.

Secondly, could this possibly have some long-term consequences for Contador's contract extension discussion with Astanna. Although the big hug between Contador and Vino at race end implied there are no issues and this could just be a minor matter resolved internally.

 

[Roland Rat]

I've heard it happens a fair amount.

Can't see it being an issue. A good coach/manager doesn't always tell the rider the truth and/or what they want to hear, but what they need to hear to get the best out of them. If that means a little BSing sometimes, so be it.

 

[saganftw]

He also stated that he was told over team radio during the first third that Schleck had actually gone ahead (when in fact closest Schleck came to was 2 seconds behind) and consistently downplayed his lead in the time they were reporting to him.

2 seconds behind contador means 6 seconds ahead in TT,so its not lie

it depends on character of a cyclist,maybe contador is that kinda guy who like to hear the truth,if hes loosing time it motivates him rather than worries

 

[Biffins]

2 seconds behind contador means 6 seconds ahead in TT,so its not lie

it depends on character of a cyclist,maybe contador is that kinda guy who like to hear the truth,if hes loosing time it motivates him rather than worries

Contador was told Schleck had gone ahead in the virtual GC. That schleck was in virtual yellow. In actual fact closest Schleck came to was 2 seconds behind on the virtual.

 

[theswordsman]

Sean Kelly said that normally you tell a rider that he's doing a bit better than he really is (if it's bad news) because you don't want to break their spirit. Time Trials are painful, and a big part of it is mental.

A couple of weeks ago, it sounded like an extension with Astana was a done deal. That was before the Riis rumors. But there was said to be a Sunday deadline for the Astana offer, as they wanted Alberto to announce it the final day of the Tour. Fran had reportedly wanted more time to weigh options.

It would be something if his treatment during the TT caused him to change teams. Last year his radio quit working after one of the splits, so he was on his own.

I wonder if his non-dominant performance this race will affect the other offers?

 

[Roland Rat]

It would be something if his treatment during the TT caused him to change teams. Last year his radio quit working after one of the splits, so he was on his own.

I wonder if his non-dominant performance this race will affect the other offers?

Do you believe that?

 

[eztarget]

I heard at the second time check they told Contador that Schleck was already in Paris!

 

[Biffins]

I wonder if his non-dominant performance this race will affect the other offers?

What was non-dominant about Contador's win?

He never looked like losing to me, at any point in the whole race. Seemed to me he controlled the whole race very well.

This is exactly why so many people are calling this year's Tour so boring. The result was never in doubt.

 

[JPM London]

QUESTIONS

Is it common for teams to misreport time advantages/disadvantages on team radio in order to either comfort them (pad up the number) or encourage them to try harder (downplay them). I had always assumed for some reason the team radios were reporting as accurately as possible and the riders took the tactical decisions.

I think it happened sometime in 1985 to a guy called Lemond who was going up a mountain... He wasn't too happy about it either, but he set the record straight the following year.

And, no, I don't the riders make too many tactical decisions. That's the whole debate about the radios - that the race is controlled from the cars (radio controlled - heh!).

 

[eztarget]

I acutally wish on that final TT that NO radios were allowed.

 

[maltiv]

Clearly they should have said that his lead was actually a bit better than it actually was. Not so much that he would "slow down", but just so that he wouldn't panic/get uncomfortable. It was quite obvious that he was extremely stressed, which affected his position on the bike a lot.

 

[Jericho]

I've heard it happens a fair amount.

Can't see it being an issue. A good coach/manager doesn't always tell the rider the truth and/or what they want to hear, but what they need to hear to get the best out of them. If that means a little BSing sometimes, so be it.

Isn't this true of all sports where applicable? You can't lie about a score if there's a clear scoreboard to look at, but in something like cycling I 'd expect some fudging of the numbers to try and increase effort. Even going back to high school, I know my track coach would often lie about scores of other teams to make things appear closer than they were (track in hgih school is a team sport where people score points over various events). Not sure how great a tactic it is, because once you know someone will lie to you it factors into future performances. But I understand the theory behind it. Doubt Contador puts much weight on that alone in making a decision where to ride next season.

 

[scribe]

i'd rather hear exactly what is happening on the road. It can be deflating to be going so deep in the red just to hear you are losing ground.

 

[Four Winds]

I heard at the second time check they told Contador that Schleck was already in Paris!

Nice one.
And technically not a lie as Frank was probably there!

 

[icefire]

I acutally wish on that final TT that NO radios were allowed.

You must be too young

DS would revert to the technology of the old days putting in their car roof something like this:

 

[shouldawouldacoulda]

The information that the DS gets on the radio during the race is sometimes not accurate. So, its possible Martinelli or Sanquer simply repeated what they heard.

Its also true that DS's will relay inaccurate info intentionally. I think this is a stupid mental trick. Pro athletes (in any sport) are intensely motivated people, I've never felt the 'cheering' you see from DS's in cycling is remotely effective.

I also don't like radios in TTs. A TT is an extremely personal race. You're on your limit and I don't think time splits make a difference. I think the chatter can break the athletes focus. Brailsford said something similar when talking about Wiggins early start strategy in the prologue.

Where I see they could be helpful is in letting an athlete sink deep into the zone, and simply giving basic info like upcoming turns, hills and course features - so the athlete doesn't have to remember as much. When guys start to tire, they may carry tension in different parts of their body and loose their form a bit... you can remind them to pull it back together.

But generally I'm a fan of TT-ing sans-radio. I think the mental skills you develop riding without one outweigh the benefits you get by having one.

 

[erader]

Sean Kelly said that normally you tell a rider that he's doing a bit better than he really is (if it's bad news) because you don't want to break their spirit. Time Trials are painful, and a big part of it is mental.

A couple of weeks ago, it sounded like an extension with Astana was a done deal. That was before the Riis rumors. But there was said to be a Sunday deadline for the Astana offer, as they wanted Alberto to announce it the final day of the Tour. Fran had reportedly wanted more time to weigh options.

It would be something if his treatment during the TT caused him to change teams. Last year his radio quit working after one of the splits, so he was on his own.

I wonder if his non-dominant performance this race will affect the other offers?

are you talking about wigans ?

erader

 

[eztarget]

You must be too young

DS would revert to the technology of the old days putting in their car roof something like this:

Or the new team car would be this:

 

[Roland Rat]

You must be too young

DS would revert to the technology of the old days putting in their car roof something like this:

Ha ha... they were funny. Sorry, I mean annoying as hell.

I remember one TT in particular where a Spanish DS was yelling constantly at the rider (maybe Indurain?) and never even seemed to pause for breath.

ALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandaleALLEZALLEZALLEZarribaarribaandaleandale!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bobby G]

Haha, wasn't that Saiz who just wouldn't stop yelling through his megaphone?

 

[Squares]

The result was never in doubt.

Of course it was not in doubt because we KNEW AC would attack Schleck when he dropped his chain to gain 39 seconds.

Of course that is so inconsequential when Contador went on to win in such a dominant style by the second smallest win in Tour history of 39 seconds.

Yep, he sure was dominant!

 

[Ryaguas]

I've never felt the 'cheering' you see from DS's in cycling is remotely effective.

Well about this: In Contador's case is not true, I read once a Contador's interview in Marca where He said that He really liked to be cheered for the ppl and from his DS car, that that gave him a lot of energies and focus on the race... if you hear well you can hear that Martinelli was cheering him from the car and Sanquer too, they were yelling a lot...

Other thing... Martinelli really likes to cheer his riders using the oldschool method with the megaphone! I still remember in La Vuelta a Castilla y Leon when Contador won the last TT, Martinelli was yelling at him A LOT in the climb, he was saying "Vamos Campeon! Vamos Campeon que vas a treinta por hora en la subida! Vamos!", but Le Tour in the last TT I can't hear very well what he was saying...

About Contador reconsidering stay with Astana just for that episode with the Radio... Nah... that is too exaggerated... and is not a fault from Astana as a team but from Martinelli... I think that he will sign with Astana a 2years contract in the next 2 weeks...

One thing that I want to know is what riders are they going to sign for the next year!!

 

[Squares]

I acutally wish on that final TT that NO radios were allowed.

I don't think it would matter unless they also banned speaker systems on the cars. The tour TT I attended left an indelible imprint of "venga venga" in my mind as the cars went by. They could just as easily say "you are down by 2 seconds" as they could say "Venga".

 

[this_is_edie]

on a side note, when will radios be ban from ProTour races? Is it next year?

 

[roundabout]

Venga!Venga!Venga! repeat ad nauseam also works.