Costa brothers ban reduced to 5 months

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Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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Yes, they were dumb to use supplements, but ultimately, when a UCI-accredited lab proves that you were indeed victims of a mistake, then you should be able to walk away from it. They changed the rules on it shortly after their case took place anyway.

Are they idiots? Yup. Did they deserve to be penalised the same as the di Lucas and Rebellins of the world? No.
 
Parrulo

Parrulo

Aug 5, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Yes, they were dumb to use supplements, but ultimately, when a UCI-accredited lab proves that you were indeed victims of a mistake, then you should be able to walk away from it. They changed the rules on it shortly after their case took place anyway.

Are they idiots? Yup. Did they deserve to be penalised the same as the di Lucas and Rebellins of the world? No.
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couldn't have said it better
 
Parrulo

Parrulo

Aug 5, 2010
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i think it has something to do with the scandals with the drug they "took" and a couple others on the commonwealth games. those drugs were put in a different cathegory. i read this in the jornalciclismo comments. it can be wrong tho.
 
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sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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hrotha said:
They're lucky they're not Spanish or this decision would have riled everybody up. Oh wait, they're Iberians too. I'll release the mobs.
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the Spanish do owe that to themselves mainly, for covering up OP, and for not properly banning Spanish riders who tested positive and didn'T have the excuse these Portuguese guys have.
 
hrotha

hrotha

Jun 10, 2010
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sniper said:
the Spanish do owe that to themselves mainly, for covering up OP, and for not properly banning Spanish riders who tested positive and didn'T have the excuse these Portuguese guys have.
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At this point, however, Spanish cycling has become the scapegoat that allows everyone else to feel good about themselves despite having absolutely no reason to do so. The simple fact is that every single cycling federation tries to protect their own riders. Every. Single. One. Maybe we could get Landis here to talk about USA Cycling, eh? And I suppose the Slovenian federation banned Valjavec? Nope, they claimed his innocence had been "proven." But hey we're not Spain, all is good! It's a perfect distraction.
 
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sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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hrotha said:
At this point, however, Spanish cycling has become the scapegoat that allows everyone else to feel good about themselves despite having absolutely no reason to do so. The simple fact is that every single cycling federation tries to protect their own riders. Every. Single. One. Maybe we could get Landis here to talk about USA Cycling, eh? And I suppose the Slovenian federation banned Valjavec? Nope, they claimed his innocence had been "proven." But hey we're not Spain, all is good! It's a perfect distraction.
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good point(s).
point(s) taken.

EDIT: on the other hand, a cover-up of the proportions and nature of OP seems quite rare.
 
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skidmark

Mar 13, 2009
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Good. Thumbs up. I think there needs to be more flexibility in doping cases, based on amount found and circumstances.

As far as the comment on Spanish riders and federation cover up and perception, I think that even if people know 'they all do it', it's easier/more popular to unleash that resentment on someone who is very successful and talked about. That's one of the main reasons why cycling forums have the lance fixation; in this case, Spain's been very very successful in recent years, and Valverde and Contador are arguably the 2 best riders of the last decade, so of course people focus on them more. So yeah, if I was a doping moralist I'd be less likely to shake my fist at Tadej for 'cheating' me with his 10th place finish in the TdF or something (yes, I know that result isn't connected to his case, I'm just saying he's not super elite) than I would for Valverde winning everything while under suspicion.
 
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Fester

Mar 19, 2010
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sniper said:
good point(s).
point(s) taken.

EDIT: on the other hand, a cover-up of the proportions and nature of OP seems quite rare.
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You mean a such a badcover up of the proportions and nature of OP.

Maybe other federations are better at cover ups!
 
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sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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Fester said:
You mean a such a badcover up of the proportions and nature of OP.

Maybe other federations are better at cover ups!
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very true. It was the very nature of the cover-up to which Spain owes its bad reputation in dealing with doping issues.
It was so plain for everyone to see, and AC's reputation is still smothered by the lousy cover-up.

US sports federations, for instance, have done much better over the last years in covering up, no doubt about it.

Also, the US have a federal agent going after their nr. 1 racing hero.
I can't imagine the Spanish federals going after AC.
 
hrotha

hrotha

Jun 10, 2010
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I agree Spain is one of the dirtiest countries in cycling, roughly at the level of Italy, USA and one or two wildcard countries we probably wouldn't even think of. But all I'm saying is you guys are setting up things for complacency and unfairness down the road, and that's dangerous. Valjavec might be relatively small fry to us, not so much to the Slovenian cycling federation.

But this is wildly off-topic anyway.
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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Portugal isn't much better - just look up João Cabreira's case. He's been under investigation and suspended, appealed and back riding for up to three separate doping infractions before finally facing suspension early last year.

However, not every case is the same, even if the court of public opinion is willing to characterise it as such. Rui and Mario Costa aren't outright cheats, just unlucky idiots.

Let's see what Bike Pure have to say about their pre-emptive attacks on Rui now.
 
joe_papp

joe_papp

May 13, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Let's see what Bike Pure have to say about their pre-emptive attacks on Rui now.
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Hey, in fairness to BikePure, they retracted the initial flicking of RC and issued an eloquent explanation of their thought process up to that point, and what they planned going forward.

http://bikepure.org/2010/10/statement-on-ruis-costa-situation/

"Like many of you, Bike Pure was unhappy and disappointed to learn of the doping allegations made against Portuguese cyclist Ruis Costa earlier this week. Many of you will be aware that Costa, a professional cyclist with the Caisse d’Epargne team, is also listed as a Bike Pure role model. While we initially chose to remove Costa’s name from our membership roll, we realize that this may not have been the most effective decision in response to such a challenging situation, and we have decided to restore Costa’s name to our website, using this difficult time as an opportunity to create a protocol for the future to help us in handling any similar cases. Costa’s A sample tested positive for the use of Methylhexanamine in the Portuguese Time Trial Championships on 25 July 2010. He has subsequently been provisionally suspended by the Portuguese federation pending analysis of his B sample.
Bike Pure does not take a position on Rui Costa’s guilt at this time, and will wait until the final adjudication of the anti-doping case lodged against him before deciding whether or not to revoke Costa’s status as a Bike Pure role model and cancel his membership in the organization. We abhor doping and stand firmly against the use of performance enhancing drug use in sport, but we also respect the fairness of the anti-doping process and express our support and encouragement to all of the parties involved in seeking to resolve this profoundly disappointing situation in which we face ourselves.
Ruis Costa’s profile can be viewed here."
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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joe_papp said:
Hey, in fairness to BikePure, they retracted the initial flicking of RC and issued an eloquent explanation of their thought process up to that point, and what they planned going forward.

http://bikepure.org/2010/10/statement-on-ruis-costa-situation/
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BP themselves may have retracted their attack, but I can't help but notice that there was no comment on Costa's statement, appearing in the Portuguese press very soon after the news first broke, about the supplements being proven tainted in a UCI-accredited lab; the original outpour of aggression was not matched by the amount of redaction (in particular from posters, though of course BP themselves can't be held responsible for that). But nothing on this latest development. There is only even a comment (on the long-buried old thread) because you yourself asked a direct question about it.

It just reeks of the old red-top press technique of "print exaggeration and speculation big and bold on the front page before all the facts come out, then print the retraction when they do come out on a single column on page 27".

Obviously they shouldn't be jumping for joy at the decision, but you'd think they'd like to let the people who were lining up to kick Rui while he's down know that so far, the only "role model" who has actually tested positive wasn't actually consciously conning them. Rui Costa isn't Bernhard Kohl.
 
joe_papp

joe_papp

May 13, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
BP themselves may have retracted their attack, but I can't help but notice that there was no comment on Costa's statement, appearing in the Portuguese press very soon after the news first broke...nothing on this latest development. There is only even a comment (on the long-buried old thread) because you yourself asked a direct question about it...
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OK, I'm not lobbying for or defending BikePure, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. BP is not Livestrong and they're just two guys and whatever internet-linked volunteers they have. Not surprising that, with families and day jobs, they don't have the resources to track and comment on every current story, while also revising previous statements.

Not to say that's not what they should be doing. I'm all for holding oneself to the highest standard as a point of pride in your work.

But I know that life is hard and the reality is probably very different than the ideal.

Suggestion: why don't you write a guest editorial or op-ed piece for them, laying out what you think their response should be - and then ask them to respond?
 
Parrulo

Parrulo

Aug 5, 2010
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webvan said:
A bit of a bump as I for one didn't know that Rui Costa (winner of today's TDF stage) he been caught with his pants down a few years ago...
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He wasn't. . .

He proved that the supplement he was taking was poisoned by proving said supplement for testing and was declared innocent.

Anyway not like he is clean or anything riding for Movistar and all, just that this one case doesn't mean much.
 
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