Cyclingnews Build a Bike Thread - Week 3: The Wheelset

[El Imbatido]

Ok, we have a frame (Look 595 for $2550) and a groupset for it (SRAM Force for $988) so that leaves about $2460 left in the kitty ($2462 if you want to be exact). So now we need a wheelset and other ther bits and bobs. We'll do wehelset this week.

As i said in the previous thread, the wheelset that came with my bike serves me well and probably will for a decent time longer, so i am not even going to pretend i know much about wheelsets.


I added a poll to the thread to decide what sort of wheelset we should use for the bike (Thanks Cobber). It has the options:

Cheaper Training & race Wheelset
Cheaper Training & race wheelset with powertap
Mid priced race wheelset + cheaper training set
Mid priced training & race wheelset
High end wheelset
Cheap race set + cheap training set


It is a three day poll (in hindsight 3 is probably a bit long should have made it two) and after this we will use the selected catagory (for lack of a better word) to make a second poll to decide actual wheels.


Please remember:
The aim is to build and all-round bike that can be used in all forms of racing and riding

For anyone just beggining to play now please read the original post of the following thread:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2677

So get voting.......

 

[runninboy]

well i think we kind of need to figure out roughly what the budget might be for the bits and bobs so we have a rough idea of how much for wheels.
bars & stem theres a couple hundred gone
saddle , pedals, tape , cages, few hundred more,
so maybe 1700 for wheels & tires?
I love tubular but as an all round bike training on tubbies can run big money.
same for the carbon wheels. Could have a set of ambrosio carbons rims built up. i think ital techno has them for 400 each, and maybe have enough to build up a set of velocity clinchers to train on.
I think handmade is the only way to go on a high end bike.
i would rather have two sets of handbuilt wheels of good quality non carbon. one race , one everyday, rather than one high cost set of carbon wheels that you see all the time.
If nothing else i want to reward a local craftsman that has my needs in mind when he is building my wheels.

 

[rgmerk]

Hmmm.

If we're spending this much money, presumably it's because we'd like our bicycle to go fast. If not, why not just get a Specialized Roubaix with 105 and spend the rest on beer?

For most of us, I expect the biggest gains would be to train better - which suggests that the most useful purchase for our bike would be a power meter.

The trouble is that power meters don't come cheap, and the less expensive ones are pretty heavy.

A basic, wired powertap hub is in the order of 500 USD. A wireless one is more like 850-900 USD. So add in a bit more for spokes and a rim and you're looking at maybe 700 USD for the wired wheel, and 1100 for the wireless?

If you wanted to race, you'd probably swap it out for something a bit lighter and more aerodynamic. So throw in some more money for a racing rear wheel.

An alternative is the carbon wheel route. On flat ground these give you a few watts advantage over traditional wheels, but you pay through the nose for it. Maybe 1000 USD minimum? There's also the question of crosswinds. In any case, you'd probably want a set of cheap, durable training wheels as backup, so throw in a bit more.

Alternatively, we could forget about both powertaps and carbon, buy a nice set of alloy wheels and keep a pile of money in the kitty.

Thoughts?

 

[LugHugger]

Hmmm.

If we're spending this much money, presumably it's because we'd like our bicycle to go fast. If not, why not just get a Specialized Roubaix with 105 and spend the rest on beer?

For most of us, I expect the biggest gains would be to train better - which suggests that the most useful purchase for our bike would be a power meter.

The trouble is that power meters don't come cheap, and the less expensive ones are pretty heavy.

A basic, wired powertap hub is in the order of 500 USD. A wireless one is more like 850-900 USD. So add in a bit more for spokes and a rim and you're looking at maybe 700 USD for the wired wheel, and 1100 for the wireless?

If you wanted to race, you'd probably swap it out for something a bit lighter and more aerodynamic. So throw in some more money for a racing rear wheel.

An alternative is the carbon wheel route. On flat ground these give you a few watts advantage over traditional wheels, but you pay through the nose for it. Maybe 1000 USD minimum? There's also the question of crosswinds. In any case, you'd probably want a set of cheap, durable training wheels as backup, so throw in a bit more.

Alternatively, we could forget about both powertaps and carbon, buy a nice set of alloy wheels and keep a pile of money in the kitty.

Thoughts?

Here are some wheel builds offered by Wheelsmith here in the UK for sample consideration:

Gigantex 19mm Tubular 3K. 380g 20h/24h only Novatec Lite CX-Ray 1345g 395.00
Gigantex 19mm Tubular 3K. 380g 20h/24h only PMP CX-Ray 1425g 495.00
Gigantex 50mm Tubular UD. 420g 20h/24h only Novatec Lite ACI 1485g 415.00
Gigantex 50mm Tubular UD. 420g 20h/24h only Novatec Lite CX-Ray 1398g 475.00
Gigantex 50mm Tubular UD. 420g 20h/24h only PMP CX-Ray 1415g 595.00
Gigantex 50mm Tubular UD. 420g 20h/24h only Royce * CX-Ray tbc 633.00 *
Gigantex 50mm Tubular UD. 420g 20h/24h only Tune 70/180 CX-Ray 1320g 695.00
Gigantex 50mm Tubular UD. 420g
20h/24h only
Extralite CX-Ray 1265g 845.00

IRD Niobium Road+VSR 28h or 32h Ambrosio ACI tbc 245.00
IRD Niobium Road+VSR 32h only Record ACI tbc 355.00
IRD Niobium Road+VSR 28,32or36h DuraAce7900 ACI 1560g
415.00
IRD Niobium Road+VSR 28,32or36h DuraAce7900 CX-Ray 1435g
525.00
IRD Niobium Road+VSR 24,28,32,36h PMP CX-Ray tbc 535.00
IRD Niobium Road+VSR 24,28 or,32h Tune 70/180 CX-Ray 1295g 605.00
IRD Niobium Road+VSR 24,28 or 32h Extralite CX-Ray 1250g
795.00

IRD Niobium Aero 30mm 24h or 28h Novatec ACI 1590g 260.00
IRD Niobium Aero 30mm 32h only Record ACI tbc 350.00
IRD Niobium Aero 30mm 32h only Record CX-Ray tbc 470.00
IRD Niobium Aero 30mm 28h or 32h DuraAce7900 ACI tbc 430.00
IRD Niobium Aero 30mm 28h or 32h DuraAce7900 CX-Ray 1480g
550.00
IRD Niobium Aero 30mm 24,28 or 32h PMP CX-Ray tbc
560.00
IRD Niobium Aero 30mm 24,28 or 32h Tune 70/180 CX-Ray 1360g
630.00
IRD Niobium Aero 30mm 24,28 or 32h Extralite CX-Ray 1340g
820.00

Ambrosio Crono F20 Tubular 28h or 32h Ambrosio ACI 1490g 235.00
Ambrosio Crono F20 Tubular 32h only Shimano 105 ACI tbc
240.00
Ambrosio Crono F20 Tubular 28h or 32h Ultegra 6600 ACI tbc
270.00
Ambrosio Crono F20 Tubular 28h or 32h DuraAce7900 ACI tbc
380.00
Ambrosio Crono F20 Tubular 28h or 32h PMP ACI 1420g
390.00
Ambrosio Crono F20 Tubular 32h only Record ACI 1420g
345.00

Ambrosio Nemesis Tubular 32h or 36h Ambrosio ACI
tbc
250.00
Ambrosio Nemesis Tubular 32h or 36h Shimano 105 ACI tbc
265.00
Ambrosio Nemesis Tubular 32h or 36h Ultegra 6600 ACI tbc
295.00
Ambrosio Nemesis Tubular 32h or 36h DuraAce7900 ACI tbc
425.00
Ambrosio Nemesis Tubular 32h or 36h PMP ACI tbc
435.00
Ambrosio Nemesis Tubular 32h only Record ACI tbc
360.00

Ambrosio Excellight Clincher 28h,32h,36h Ambrosio ACI
tbc
240.00
Ambrosio Excellight Clincher 32h or 36h Shimano 105 ACI tbc 255.00
Ambrosio Excellight Clincher 28h,32h,36h Ultegra 6600 ACI
tbc
285.00
Ambrosio Excellight Clincher 28h,32h,36h DuraAce7900 ACI tbc
415.00
Ambrosio Excellight Clincher 28h,32h,36h PMP ACI tbc
425.00
Ambrosio Excellight Clincher 32h only Record ACI tbc
350.00
Ambrosio Evolution 32h or 36h Ambrosio ACI
tbc
215.00
Ambrosio Evolution 32h or 36h Shimano 105 ACI
tbc
240.00
Ambrosio Evolution 32h or 36h Ultegra 6600 ACI
tbc
265.00
Ambrosio Evolution 32h or 36h DuraAce7900 ACI tbc
385.00
Ambrosio Evolution 32h only Record ACI tbc
325.00

Ambrosio Excursion 32h or 36h Ambrosio ACI
tbc
200.00
Ambrosio Excursion 32h or 36h Shimano 105 ACI
tbc
200.00
Ambrosio Excursion 32h or 36h Ultegra 6600 ACI
tbc
220.00
Ambrosio Excursion 32h or 36h DuraAce7900 ACI tbc
365.00
Ambrosio Excursion 32h only Record ACI tbc
315.00

Mavic Open Pro Black / CD 32h only Ambrosio ACI
tbc
235.00
Mavic Open Pro Black / CD 32h only Shimano 105 ACI
tbc
250.00
Mavic Open Pro Black / CD 32h only Ultegra 6600 ACI
tbc
280.00
Mavic Open Pro Black / CD 32h only DuraAce7900 ACI tbc
410.00
Mavic Open Pro Black / CD 32h only PMP ACI tbc
420.00
Mavic Open Pro Black / CD 32h only Record ACI tbc
345.00

Mavic Reflex tubular CD 32h only Ambrosio ACI
tbc
245.00
Mavic Reflex tubular CD 32h only Shimano 105 ACI
tbc
260.00
Mavic Reflex tubular CD 32h only Ultegra 6600 ACI
tbc
290.00
Mavic Reflex tubular CD 32h only DuraAce7900 ACI tbc
420.00
Mavic Reflex tubular CD 32h only PMP ACI tbc
430.00
Mavic Reflex tubular CD 32h only Record ACI tbc
355.00

For the record, I would not go with PowerTap or similar. I don't think that he budget supports them. I reckon that we can spend MAX $1750.

 

[rgmerk]

I dunno, but it seems to me that this is going to depend very much on fine details of the rider and the use priorities of the bike.

Carbon wheelsets only make sense if the goal is winning flattish races. As I understand it, they're too expensive and fragile for any other purpose.

Is that a priority or not?

 

[Aapjes]

The goal was to build an all-round bike, so I think that the wheels should be all-round.

 

[Bala Verde]

What about a (similar) type as the zipp 202. Carbon, all round, light, strong and durable (?). They are extremely expensive though, around 2000$, after a quick query on the interweb.

If you want to go for Carbon, you'd probably go for tubulars, why would you otherwise get carbon as the clincher versions are quite a bit heavier? On the other hand, you'll want to have some wheels for training as well, preferably clinchers right?

So 2 or 1 set. Race+Training or Race/Training.

In either case, I think a brand spanking new powertap-elite/pro/sl/SRM/Quarq-Cinqo (I found one on Ebay for 1350$) will be a too much to fit the budget.

A good, durable training set, made by a wheelbuilder, didn't that cost between 600-800$ according to RDVROUBAIX?

Other brands to consider, we could rate them?
A-class
Ambrosio
HED
American Classic
Bontrager
Cane Creek
Corima
Easton
Fulcrum
Marchisio
Lightweight
Neuvation
FSA
Ritchey
Zipp
Ursus
Mavic
Roval
Shimano
Vuelta Wheels

 

[mr. tibbs]

We ended up with Force?!?

Lame groupset is lame.

But for the wheels: What about something along the lines of Campy Eurus. Or rather, Fulcrum Racing 1, I guess, since we're riding *gag* Force. Or maybe Ksyrium SL?

I doubt any of these will win, but it's worth a shot.

 

[LugHugger]

I'd pitch the HED Ardennes first at $1050, since they are rebuildable by any competent wheelbuilder (CXray spokes). Second pitch would be a set of Chris King/CX Ray/alloy clincher rims - more expensive though.

 

[rgmerk]

Mr Tibbs, maybe it's just me but the Fulcrum racing 1 strikes me as rather expensive for what it is. Or do they feel so fantastic that it's worth the money?

Has anybody got any experience with the el-cheapo carbon rims that are appearing on the marketplace? Are they good value, or an example of the get-what-you-pay-for principle at work?

 

[Black Dog]

I'd pitch the HED Ardennes first at $1050, since they are rebuildable by any competent wheelbuilder (CXray spokes). Second pitch would be a set of Chris King/CX Ray/alloy clincher rims - more expensive though.

I second the vote for the HED Ardennes.

 

[riobonito92]

Given the budget and the need for an all round bike: Campag Eurus seconded. Nothing, absolutely nothing, beats the (lack of) rolling resistance of campag hubs. Never has, never will.
No powertap - buy a HR monitor instead.

 

[LugHugger]

Given the budget and the need for an all round bike: Campag Eurus seconded. Nothing, absolutely nothing, beats the (lack of) rolling resistance of campag hubs. Never has, never will.
No powertap - buy a HR monitor instead.

Don't know about other people but putting Campag wheels on this bike feels wrong. Plus, they weigh 1550g as clinchers which isn't particularly light on a $6,000 bike.

 

[rgmerk]

Could we have indicative pricing on the Campy and Fulcrum options, please?

In terms of speed, the science suggests that there is going to be ******-all difference (at least in terms of constant high speeds on flat ground) between any decent-quality alloy wheelset, so it comes down to preferred feel.

So pick something reliable, rebuildable, and not too expensive, and keep the rest in the kitty - maybe budget some of the money for a professional bike fit?

 

[El Imbatido]

Ok, ive been reading a few posts and everyone has a few different ideas. Some people want two sets, some one, some want carbon, some don't, some want tubs, some don't etc, etc. So i'm gonna open this up and say since our budget is $2450 why don't we spend $1500(?) on wheels. Now there are ten spots in the poll, i think we should create a list of possible candidates. Post your ideas, links to different sets. I'm even still open for suggestion about getting two wheelsets for $1500 (If you can find a good combo), so post away...

Ive even suggested a couple of wheelsests. I thought the SRAM wheels were a good buy at that price. S60's were also the same price but i thought 40's were better suitedmto all-round riding

1. SRAM S40 Wheelset $1407.28 - Probike Kit
2. Fast Forward F4R DT 240s ON SALE $1091.20 - Chainreaction Cycles
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.


Just copy + paste this list if you want to add to it. Nothing is set in stone yet so it doesn't matter if we get more than ten but the poll only has ten options.

Post away...........

 

[rgmerk]

2. Fast Forward F4R DT 240s ON SALE $1091.20 - Chainreaction Cycles

These are Campy-compatible wheels, not Shimano/SRAM. The SRAM-compatible wheels aren't on sale.

Here's my suggestion, for the sake of argument:
Reynolds Assault clinchers - $1500 from Competitive Cyclist

Frankly, I think we'd be crazy not to get some el-cheapo Aksiums or something similar as training wheels if we didn't have some already lying around. Why risk breaking expensive, fragile, and difficult-to-handle-in-crosswinds carbon rims on a training ride where the additional 0.3 mph they might provide is completely irrelevant?

 

[El Imbatido]

These are Campy-compatible wheels, not Shimano/SRAM. The SRAM-compatible wheels aren't on sale.

Dang it, shows you how closely i read it. Are wheels that say Shimano compatible also compatible with SRAM?

Here's my suggestion, for the sake of argument:
Reynolds Assault clinchers - $1500 from Competitive Cyclist

They seem like pretty good set of clinchers, i'll add them to the list.

Frankly, I think we'd be crazy not to get some el-cheapo Aksiums or something similar as training wheels if we didn't have some already lying around. Why risk breaking expensive, fragile, and difficult-to-handle-in-crosswinds carbon rims on a training ride where the additional 0.3 mph they might provide is completely irrelevant?

I also think it is a good idea to have a second set, BUT if we want to do this we need to get a good pair and a cheap set for $1500, if anyone can get this done i'll add it to the poll.

 

[El Imbatido]

Ok so far:

1. SRAM S40 Wheelset $1407.28 - Probike Kit
2. HED Ardennes $994.95 - Repartocorse
3. 2009 Reynolds Assault Full Carbon Clincher $1500 - Competitive Cyclist
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

 

[elapid]

1. SRAM S40 Wheelset $1407.28 - Probike Kit
2. HED Ardennes $994.95 - Repartocorse
3. 2009 Reynolds Assault Full Carbon Clincher $1500 - Competitive Cyclist
4. 2009 Mavic Ksyrium SL Premium Wheelset $1200 - Competitive Cyclist
5. Mavic Open Pro Wheelset $250 - Price Point*
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

* I've suggested the Mavic Open Pros just because they are bomb proof. May not be the lightest or most aerodynamic, but they're cheap and they're probably the most reliable wheels on the market. Note that this price is for the Shimano Ultegra hub.

 

[runninboy]

OK Colorado Cyclist used to build good wheels.
They have Reynolds Assault Carbon wheels on sale for 1100.
They also will custom build some Open Pro rims, with DT spokes 3x on Ultegra hubs for 366, so that would be 1466 for two wheelsets, one carbon, one alloy. I would prefer tubular for the carbon wheels but since there are alot of people who dont like glue...

 

[rgmerk]

OK Colorado Cyclist used to build good wheels.
They have Reynolds Assault Carbon wheels on sale for 1100.
They also will custom build some Open Pro rims, with DT spokes 3x on Ultegra hubs for 366, so that would be 1466 for two wheelsets, one carbon, one alloy. I would prefer tubular for the carbon wheels but since there are alot of people who dont like glue...

The <A HREF="http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/25196/">Reynolds wheels are here</A>, and the <A HREF="http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/25350">Ultegra wheels are here</A>.

This is a no-brainer superior option to buying from Competitive Cyclist - a pair of decent-quality training wheels and the same carbon wheels for less money than Competitive Cyclist were charging. Could this deal be placed in the poll instead?

I agree that there should be a tubular option in the poll. As a pure race wheel, a tubular has a couple of distinct advantages as I understand it - they are a bit lighter, they're less likely to go flat, and generally a bit safer when they do flat.

Can somebody identify an appropriate one? Of course, with tubulars the backup training wheelset becomes even more important.

 

[rgmerk]

Just for the sake of it - a powertap option.

Competitive Cyclist has a (wired) powertap comp wheel available for $659. On top of that, you could get a set (say) of Mavic Ksyrium Elites for $649 from Colorado Cyclist. But take your pick of alloy wheels - I'm sure there are better options if people put their minds to it.

Low-end powertap *is* a possibility, though the wire is a nuisance.

 

[Bala Verde]

1. SRAM S40 Wheelset $1407.28 - Probike Kit
2. HED Ardennes $994.95 - Repartocorse
3. 2009 Reynolds Assault Full Carbon Clincher $1500 - Competitive Cyclist
4. 2009 Mavic Ksyrium SL Premium Wheelset $1200 - Competitive Cyclist
5. Mavic Open Pro Wheelset $250 - Price Point*
6. Corima Aero (RR AERO 2D WHEEL 28" (700C) TUBULAR 24SP. SHIMA CASS 10SP. (12K) 499E + FR AERO 2D WHEEL 28" (700C) TUBULAR 18SP. (12K) 429E = total 928E = 1309$ - Corima.com
7.
8.
9.
10.

Corima Aero tubulars?

 

[runninboy]

1. SRAM S40 Wheelset $1407.28 - Probike Kit
2. HED Ardennes $994.95 - Repartocorse
3. Reynolds Assault Carbon + Mavic Open Pro $1466- Colorado Cyclist
4. 2009 Mavic Ksyrium SL Premium Wheelset $1200 - Competitive Cyclist
5. Mavic Open Pro Wheelset $250 - Price Point*
6. Fulcrum Racing Zero Tubular Wheelset $999.95-Western Bike works
7.
8.
9.
10.

OK
I eliminated the overpriced assaultsm why not get a training set too and save 40 dollars to boot? No brainer. I found a tubular option as well.
the fulcrums race zero, we could get the price point clinchers and the fulcrums for a nice tubular race, clincher training combo for less than 1250. that would save about 500 off the wheel budget. We could use some of that and get a cool set of dugast for an all Euro wheel set, put that with a time frame pretty cool conversation piece. too bad we didnt go for the campy gruppo too

 

[Cobber]

Bump.

Poll soon?

Just a suggestion, since there is obviously a lot of choices and way too many to be included on a poll. Maybe we could have 2 polls! The first poll would be for the type of wheel selection strategy, with choices such as "high-end all round wheel" "cheaper race wheel training wheel combo" "training wheel with powertap" and so on. Let that poll run for a few days and then have a second poll with all choices belonging to the winning category in the first poll. What do you all think?