Dan Martin

[eigenvalu2]

DM has broken CVV's record up Rocacorba in Girona @ 28:43 - weighing in at 60kgs and 389 watts gives 6.5 w/kg (NB-Vaughters is claiming 6.4 w/kg; 6.5 based on actual ratio). DM seems highly likely to be clean. Perhaps some of the higher w/kg numbers we have been seeing of late are actual rather than charged.

 

[red_flanders]

389 Watts does not seem outrageous--excellent, world class clean number, but not outrageous. Thus it can't really show that a) he's clean or b) this kind of wattage means that the 450+ values we see make any sense.

That, plus I don't understand why he's any more likely than anyone else to be clean.

 

[eigenvalu2]

Power to Weight Ratio

Number of interest:6.5 w/kg
Cleanliness or otherwise is always conjecture

 

[red_flanders]

Number of interest:6.5 w/kg
Cleanliness or otherwise is always conjecture

Yes, I saw that. Raw wattage is also extremely important when looking for a suspicious performance.

It's an eyebrow raiser. Not much more IMO.

Still don't know why I should think he's cleaner than anyone else. Is there some basis for the conjecture that he's clean? I've not heard anything, but that means little. I don't get a lot of Dan Martin news in my life.

 

[luckyboy]

Still don't know why I should think he's cleaner than anyone else. Is there some basis for the conjecture that he's clean? I've not heard anything, but that means little. I don't get a lot of Dan Martin news in my life.

It's funny - most of the (admittedly limited) number of people I've talked to about cycling seem to think that Anglophone riders are cleaner.

 

[eigenvalu2]

DM

My apologies for being obscure - Dan is:
1. fairly vocal about being clean
2. is a member of "Bike Pure"
3. rides for Garmin
None of these proves anything of course - his performance in races also strikes me as "non-charged" whatever that is worth but one really doesn't know the truth unless one is the racer in question, failing a documented adverse analytical result

in the past, others have posited that greater than ~6ish w/kg could be suspicious. i was only suggesting that we might have to raise our suspicion bar

 

[BikeCentric]

in the past, others have posited that greater than ~6ish w/kg could be suspicious. i was only suggesting that we might have to raise our suspicion bar

I don't think so. > 6.5 w/kg can be a bit suspicious. Dans numbers here are good but by no means eyebrow raising just like his race results.

 

[Escarabajo]

...

in the past, others have posited that greater than ~6ish w/kg could be suspicious. i was only suggesting that we might have to raise our suspicion bar

The time of the exercise could be a big factor also. There is a thread where people thought that around 6.4 W/Kg was the limit for clean performance. But then they were relating to 1 hour time frame exercise and not after weeks of hard racing. Judge yourself.

As a last note I have noted that lighter riders have tendencies to have higher watts per kilograms values. Contador was putting numbers around 400 watts in the climbs and people were already suspicious. Those numbers were on short climbs also.

 

[fatandfast]

Unless there is some market research that I am unaware of how many watts you generate should be saved for training camps and try outs. Each publishing of this crap has the dope skeptics foaming to say it can't be or it's impossible. Watts are for light bulbs and generators. If you win a race it's because you were the best that day, Congrads on your record.If you must tell on paper say it was 800 watts and that you could have done it 2 more times no problem.

 

[oldschoolnik]

yes, and yes

Yes, when comparing performances up certain climbs or in ITT's it always amazes me when people don't at least make an attempt to control for minutes of effort - that is, Contador's 20 or 30 minute power is of course going to be higher than his or someone else's one hour or 50 minute power up Alpe De Huez (that many were comparing to known doped performances like Pantani)

I am not saying, mind you, that AC is clean I am just saying 20 minute power is not 50 minute power. Even for myself I wish I could sustain my 20 minute power for 50 minutes.

Nik

 

[eigenvalu2]

time

i completely agree length of effort is critical (and prior days with prior efforts). i guess i'm referring to the discussions re: verbier climb (~20 min effort) where some were saying over ~6 w/kg is suspicious.

 

[350Watts]

I don't think so. > 6.5 w/kg can be a bit suspicious. Dans numbers here are good but by no means eyebrow raising just like his race results.

Yeah, I don't think that 6.5 W/KG as a one off, rested 30ish minute effort is really that suspicious. Now that number for 50 minutes at the end of a grand tour where you've been battling for the overall is another thing.

 

[BikeCentric]

Yeah, I don't think that 6.5 W/KG as a one off, rested 30ish minute effort is really that suspicious. Now that number for 50 minutes at the end of a grand tour where you've been battling for the overall is another thing.

Absolutely agreed.

 

[the truth.]

watched Dan 2 years back on a Vo2 test. remarkable efficiency and still a kid.

the sport is cleaning up and if you outspoken and take an anti doping stance- re member of Garmin/Bikepure.org .u got to trust them more.
alberto still hasnt answered those tour questions- where are your results AC?

its the silent ones i worry about.

putting your head in the sand wont make it all go away

 

[cromagnon]

My apologies for being obscure - Dan is:
1. fairly vocal about being clean
2. is a member of "Bike Pure"
3. rides for Garmin

The same bike pure that has a promising junior put in 400w for an hour in an ITT?

"Bike Pure" is just a bs label "ooh look at us we're not like the others". It's just image marketing and you're a mug if you buy it. Anglo riders are no cleaner than the rest the biggest fraud in cycling and possibly the history of all sport being one key example.

I know Dan is not anglo but someone above made a comment pertinent to that statement.

 

[Big Ring]

Producing that kind of power could just be evidence that he is Good. A natural physiology suited to cycling combined with years of training. Everyone is real and innocent until proven otherwise. As for Contador winning is evidence of winning and noting else.

 

[Frosty]

I know Dan is not anglo but someone above made a comment pertinent to that statement.

Well he is an anglophone rider, ie one who speaks english, which is what one of the first posters said.

He was born in Birmingham in the Midlands (central England) and was British Junior champion back in 2004. From what i remember he decided to race for Ireland when the British authority said that if he wanted their support then he would have to do some track work.

 

[pmcg76]

The same bike pure that has a promising junior put in 400w for an hour in an ITT?

"Bike Pure" is just a bs label "ooh look at us we're not like the others". It's just image marketing and you're a mug if you buy it. Anglo riders are no cleaner than the rest the biggest fraud in cycling and possibly the history of all sport being one key example.

I know Dan is not anglo but someone above made a comment pertinent to that statement.

The fact that you dont know Dan Martin is anglo-saxon suggests you know nothing about the guy so you are more than happy to label people even though you know nothing about them.

I know riders who will do anything to potray a certain image but I think most of the guys on Bikepure are genuine.

Would you actually care to take a look at the riders signed up to Bikepure and point out the ones whom are obviously doped to the gills.

 

[red_flanders]

My apologies for being obscure - Dan is:
1. fairly vocal about being clean
2. is a member of "Bike Pure"
3. rides for Garmin
None of these proves anything of course - his performance in races also strikes me as "non-charged" whatever that is worth but one really doesn't know the truth unless one is the racer in question, failing a documented adverse analytical result

Thanks, hadn't seen any of that.

 

[luckyboy]

Slightly off-topic, but I was on BikePure's website the other day and I was wondering why Garmin aren't signed up to it seeing as they're so anti-doping.

 

[Digger]

Well he is an anglophone rider, ie one who speaks english, which is what one of the first posters said.

He was born in Birmingham in the Midlands (central England) and was British Junior champion back in 2004. From what i remember he decided to race for Ireland when the British authority said that if he wanted their support then he would have to do some track work.

You're forgetting to point out that his mother is Irish. Stephen Roche's sister.

 

[luckyboy]

anglophone: consisting of or belonging to an English-speaking population especially in a country where two or more languages are spoken

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anglophone

 

[Frosty]

You're forgetting to point out that his mother is Irish. Stephen Roche's sister.

If someone wants his complete biography then they can research it themself rather than wait for me to write it all. My point was that he is definitely as anglophone a rider as the biggest fraud

 

[ludwig]

My apologies for being obscure - Dan is:
1. fairly vocal about being clean
2. is a member of "Bike Pure"
3. rides for Garmin
None of these proves anything of course - his performance in races also strikes me as "non-charged" whatever that is worth but one really doesn't know the truth unless one is the racer in question, failing a documented adverse analytical result

in the past, others have posited that greater than ~6ish w/kg could be suspicious. i was only suggesting that we might have to raise our suspicion bar

#3 is unconvincing..riding for Garmin is more of an indicator that he is doping than that he is clean.

Where is a link to him being 'vocal' about anti-doping?

The BikePure thing is nice but that isn't sufficient ground to assume he is somehow getting 2nd in races like Catalunya on bread and water.

In all likelihood he is on the same program as other elite riders on Garmin--don't be naive.