Dear Cycling News, Here are Some Follow-up Questions

[131313]

Since it seems that we are getting a lot of these 'the past is in the past' responses, I figured I'd like to throw out some follow-up questions for you guys when you're interviewing people. Maybe some other folks have some, too.

Here's my list so far:

1. If the sport's governing body and power structure have stayed the same and the corruption was within the UCI, why are we to believe things have changed?

2. "Armstrong doesn't define the sport anymore"? Well, he still runs one of the highest profile teams, with a big junior program. Does that give you some concern?

3. Speaking of Armstrong's team, how about those transfusion kits? I know the French are out to get Armstrong and all, but do you have any thoughts on that subject?

4. Shouldn't Thomas Frei have been getting better results if everyone else was clean?

5. You realize that the humanplasma lab and Puerto didn't happen '8 years ago'?

6. Do you think there's some utility in actually talking about the past so we can potentially learn from it?

7. It seems that the sport is run in large part by people who've gotten to where they are on the backs of doping. Bjarne Riis doped his way to a career and is just one example in a sea of them. With these guys still playing a pivotal role, are we supposed to 'just trust them'?

8. could you explain what Anne Gripper really meant when she said she 'needed to spend more time with her family'?

9. what about the Danny Pate's of the world? Don't you think that tiny fraction of guys who chose a different path are owed some sort of apology? From U23 world champion to gregario just doesn't seem fair, does it?

Any others?

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Has anyone asked Lance to answer the actual question Juliet asked him at the press conference. He was happy to clarify the question of payments to the UCI after the interview.

What she actually asked was:

"Why do you think he pinpointed you and Yohan as the two people who encouraged him?". (Listen at about 4:07). When he replies to something different she tries again with "ya but you were" and he talks over the top.

Note that the transcript doesn't record this question correctly.

 

[Anonymous]

10. Boxers or briefs?

 

[krebs303]

10. Boxers or briefs?

Boxer briefs

 

[The_Z_man]

9. what about the Danny Pate's of the world? Don't you think that tiny fraction of guys who chose a different path are owed some sort of apology? From U23 world champion to gregario just doesn't seem fair, does it?

You had me with you until this. Just because someone is U23 world ITT champ does not mean they're going to be the next Jacques Anquetil. It might mean he was an early bloomer. It might mean a lot of things.

I'm a huge college basketball fan. Hoops history has tons of guys who were incredible college players but never became great NBA players. There are tons of examples in all of sports where a guy is good at one level, but never is able to make it at the next. Conversely there are plenty of late bloomers who never got much notice at a lower level, but when they hit the big time, were great.

 

[Race Radio]

You had me with you until this. Just because someone is U23 world ITT champ does not mean they're going to be the next Jacques Anquetil. It might mean he was an early bloomer. It might mean a lot of things.

I'm a huge college basketball fan. Hoops history has tons of guys who were incredible college players but never became great NBA players. There are tons of examples in all of sports where a guy is good at one level, but never is able to make it at the next. Conversely there are plenty of late bloomers who never got much notice at a lower level, but when they hit the big time, were great.

Hoops is learned skill, cycling is all engine. You are born with it. Pate is a great bellweather

 

[The_Z_man]

Hoops is learned skill, cycling is all engine. You are born with it. Pate is a great bellweather

Look at who he beat. Sebastian Lang is a pretty good rider, but hasn't exactly set the world on fire. Have you ever heard of James Lewis Perry? I haven't.

I'm looking at Memoire Du Cyclisme. When I go through the lists of Amateur and U23 world road champs, there are more names that I don't know than names that I do. Sure, there are years when all 3 are big names now, but mostly, I'm lucky if I know one. People mature at different rates. Some guys are good young, and then when everyone catches up, are good but not great. Some guys mature later. Some guys just had a great day.

 

[Race Radio]

Look at who he beat. Sebastian Lang is a pretty good rider, but hasn't exactly set the world on fire. Have you ever heard of James Lewis Perry? I haven't.

I'm looking at Memoire Du Cyclisme. When I go through the lists of Amateur and U23 world road champs, there are more names that I don't know than names that I do. Sure, there are years when all 3 are big names now, but mostly, I'm lucky if I know one. People mature at different rates. Some guys are good young, and then when everyone catches up, are good but not great. Some guys mature later. Some guys just had a great day.

Here are a few recent names that have been on the podium in the U23 ITT

Andreas Klöden (GER)
László Bodrogi (HUN)
David George (RSA)
Thor Hushovd (NOR)
Iván Gutiérrez (ESP)
Michael Rogers (AUS) Twice
Evgeni Petrov (RUS) Twice
Fabian Cancellara (SUI)
Danny Pate (USA)
Sebastian Lang (GER)
Tomas Vaitkus (LTU)
Sérgio Paulinho (POR)
Markus Fothen (GER)
Janez Brajkovič (SLO)
Thomas Dekker (NED)
Vincenzo Nibali (ITA)
Mikhail Ignatiev (RUS) Twice
Dmitry Grabovskiy (UKR)
Lars Boom (NED)
Cameron Meyer (AUS)

This does not even count the guys like Dave Z, Cadel Evens, Edvald Boasson Hagen, etc that finished in the top 10

As for his competition that year Lang has continued to be a very strong ITT rider. He has won the German TT Pro title

 

[Squares]

Pate

Could be that Pate was on the stuff as an amateur when he wasn't being tested very much, and then when he was on the radar he had to stop/cut down.

That would explain good results at the U23 Worlds and not since, but I'm sure you would rather indict the rest of the peloton and trust Pate.

 

[Rip:30]

Here are a few recent names that have been on the podium in the U23 ITT

Andreas Klöden (GER)
László Bodrogi (HUN)
David George (RSA)
Thor Hushovd (NOR)
Iván Gutiérrez (ESP)
Michael Rogers (AUS) Twice
Evgeni Petrov (RUS) Twice
Fabian Cancellara (SUI)
Danny Pate (USA)
Sebastian Lang (GER)
Tomas Vaitkus (LTU)
Sérgio Paulinho (POR)
Markus Fothen (GER)
Janez Brajkovič (SLO)
Thomas Dekker (NED)
Vincenzo Nibali (ITA)
Mikhail Ignatiev (RUS) Twice
Dmitry Grabovskiy (UKR)
Lars Boom (NED)
Cameron Meyer (AUS)

This does not even count the guys like Dave Z, Cadel Evens, Edvald Boasson Hagen, etc that finished in the top 10

As for his competition that year Lang has continued to be a very strong ITT rider. He has won the German TT Pro title

It's an illustrative list, but Pate is not totally horrible as an elite TTer either.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/giro08/?id=results/giro0821

A solid tt at the end of what i think may have been his first GT?

then 14th in the tour tt that year.

then 2nd at burgos tt, and 7th Critérium International tt in 2009.

 

[kurtinsc]

Since it seems that we are getting a lot of these 'the past is in the past' responses, I figured I'd like to throw out some follow-up questions for you guys when you're interviewing people. Maybe some other folks have some, too.

Here's my list so far:

1. If the sport's governing body and power structure have stayed the same and the corruption was within the UCI, why are we to believe things have changed?

2. "Armstrong doesn't define the sport anymore"? Well, he still runs one of the highest profile teams, with a big junior program. Does that give you some concern?

3. Speaking of Armstrong's team, how about those transfusion kits? I know the French are out to get Armstrong and all, but do you have any thoughts on that subject?

4. Shouldn't Thomas Frei have been getting better results if everyone else was clean?

5. You realize that the humanplasma lab and Puerto didn't happen '8 years ago'?

6. Do you think there's some utility in actually talking about the past so we can potentially learn from it?

7. It seems that the sport is run in large part by people who've gotten to where they are on the backs of doping. Bjarne Riis doped his way to a career and is just one example in a sea of them. With these guys still playing a pivotal role, are we supposed to 'just trust them'?

8. could you explain what Anne Gripper really meant when she said she 'needed to spend more time with her family'?

9. what about the Danny Pate's of the world? Don't you think that tiny fraction of guys who chose a different path are owed some sort of apology? From U23 world champion to gregario just doesn't seem fair, does it?

Any others?

1. They've changed in that the doping has progressed. If they were doping the same way then they'd be getting caught.

2. No more then a confessed doper running Saxo-Bank, a semi-confessed doper running Garmin, or suspected/confirmed dopers running or working countless other teams. If we want to hit Lance on this, we shouldn't JUST hit him... we have to hit all of them that have any suspician.

3. Yeah, they're a problem. I say disqualify every Astana rider and give the Tour title to the guy who's riding for a guy who admitted to doping when HE won the Tour.

4. Perhaps... but let's be honest... NOBODY is clean... or at leas nobody of note.

5. Yep.

6. Only if we are going to get EVERYONE with ANY suspician. If we are just targeting certain riders because we don't like them then I'm not a fan of that.

7. No, we are supposed to ignore it and enjoy the show.

8. No idea what you are talking about. Maybe she wanted to spend more time with her family.

9. What makes you think Danny Pate is clean? He's riding on the team of a likely doper.




If we want to eliminate it... eliminate ALL of it. Permanently ban anyone who has ever been convicted of doping. Permanently ban anyone who's ever ridden on a team with a doper. Permanently ban anyone who's ever ridden under a DS who doped.

If that's too harsh... then put those rules in place NOW, but forgive and forget anything from the past. Nobody's gone for past infractions and all current doping bans are lifted... but if a rider gets caught from now on... ALL of their teammates, their DS, their team... all are gone for good.

That will make teams clean.

And if that's too harsh... then just watch the racing and stop worrying about what kind of stuff their on. Regardless of what's in their bodies... the racing is still fun to watch.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

1. They've changed in that the doping has progressed. If they were doping the same way then they'd be getting caught.

2. No more then a confessed doper running Saxo-Bank, a semi-confessed doper running Garmin, or suspected/confirmed dopers running or working countless other teams. If we want to hit Lance on this, we shouldn't JUST hit him... we have to hit all of them that have any suspician.

3. Yeah, they're a problem. I say disqualify every Astana rider and give the Tour title to the guy who's riding for a guy who admitted to doping when HE won the Tour.

4. Perhaps... but let's be honest... NOBODY is clean... or at leas nobody of note.

5. Yep.

6. Only if we are going to get EVERYONE with ANY suspician. If we are just targeting certain riders because we don't like them then I'm not a fan of that.

7. No, we are supposed to ignore it and enjoy the show.

8. No idea what you are talking about. Maybe she wanted to spend more time with her family.

9. What makes you think Danny Pate is clean? He's riding on the team of a likely doper.




If we want to eliminate it... eliminate ALL of it. Permanently ban anyone who has ever been convicted of doping. Permanently ban anyone who's ever ridden on a team with a doper. Permanently ban anyone who's ever ridden under a DS who doped.

If that's too harsh... then put those rules in place NOW, but forgive and forget anything from the past. Nobody's gone for past infractions and all current doping bans are lifted... but if a rider gets caught from now on... ALL of their teammates, their DS, their team... all are gone for good.

That will make teams clean.

And if that's too harsh... then just watch the racing and stop worrying about what kind of stuff their on. Regardless of what's in their bodies... the racing is still fun to watch.

It is interesting to reread both yours and '131313's posts. What is the difference?

'131313' care about the sport - you care about keeping the legacy of one rider alive.

"Eliminate all of it" - yes, that is exactly what '131313' is suggesting - and they should know, as if you have followed their posts you would realise they are a current Pro rider.